Upgraded to Michelin LTX? No Warranty.

[KK4YZ]

Originally Posted by 56ovalwindow

Our trailer’s wet weight is close to 9500. Heaven forbid we ever over load it. The tires are rated at 3040 pounds, times that by four you have 13600. Now multiply this by .875 ( Max pressure of 80 psi, tire inflated to approximately 70 psi) and this equals 11,900. Take the trailer weight, times it by 1.2 roughly about 350-400 pounds extra per tire. This gives a little bit of cushion regarding the tires. Am I over thinking it? We pull off road and into some out of the way places. Last thing we need is tire issues so I’m hoping a slightly larger, more robust tire will hold up better.

You might be miscalculating it. 3040 x 4 = 12,160, not 13600. You have less margin than you thought. Better run those tires @ 80psi!

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by 56ovalwindow

Our trailer’s wet weight is close to 9500. Heaven forbid we ever over load it. The tires are rated at 3040 pounds, times that by four you have 13600. Now multiply this by .875 ( Max pressure of 80 psi, tire inflated to approximately 70 psi) and this equals 11,900. Take the trailer weight, times it by 1.2 roughly about 350-400 pounds extra per tire. This gives a little bit of cushion regarding the tires. Am I over thinking it? We pull off road and into some out of the way places. Last thing we need is tire issues so I’m hoping a slightly larger, more robust tire will hold up better.

Not sure about your calculations.


What is the x 0.875?
If tires are Load Range E you should run 80 psi cold to lower the structural damage being done due to the Interply Shear forces on the radial belts.
Unless yo uave a very unusual RV the weight between axles is not exactly 50/50 AND the weight end to end on an axle is not 50/50 either.


Is the total laodon all 4 tires 11,900 based on a scale reading?


Using a +20% factor for the Reserve Load is reasonable as many trailers are only 5% with some being negative (overloaded) by hundreds of pounds.


What type and size and Load Range, GAWR and Inflations shown on the Tire Placard on the side of the trailer?

[boondockdad]

OP here.
Update on this issue is on my blog, but figured I'd circle back here, too. Good forum etiquette you know

Talked to someone further up the food chain at Michelin about these tire failures.

They do in fact honor their warranty when a properly sized LTX is used on a travel trailer.

What's more, he was all set to cut the check for damages, in total.

In the end, my insurance carrier covered it (won't bore you with the details) then sent it over for subrogation.

[Tireman9]

There are some tire stores that offer Road Hazzard warranty which should mean that all is covered.

[jcanavera]

As a follow up I ordered my Michelin replacements today from Discount Tire Direct. They have a 10% rebate which ends tomorrow and I will get them sometime next week via UPS. Free shipping no sales tax and a reasonable mounting and balance charge done at a local dealership in the area. I’ll take the wheels off and have the tires changed without taking the trailer in. PayPal will let me spread the costs over 6 months with no interest.

I’ll have 6+ years of service on the old LTX MS2 Michelin’s with no failures over that timeframe. FYI, I ran the Michellin’s at 80 PSI, with no problems or issues to the tires or my 30’ Classic slide out. It’s is a heavy trailer, especially when carrying 60 gallons of fresh water.

Jack

[Mollysdad]

I'd take a Michelin with no warranty over a Firestone with lots.
Someone probably mentioned this but Michelin says they're light truck tires, not suitable for trailers, therefore no warranty.

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

I'd take a Michelin with no warranty over a Firestone with lots.
Someone probably mentioned this but Michelin says they're light truck tires, not suitable for trailers, therefore no warranty.

And again the question comes back as to what a warranty means. If it's road hazards you are looking for then that warranty is limited to the seller. Discount Tire will sell one but it's a three year one. And if you buy at your local dealership it may only be good there, not when you are on the road. If it's manufacturer's defect, then it's even a matter of knowing if the tire is truly defective or has failed due to road hazard. If you follow the threads attempting to collect on those grounds may be a flip of the coin. We have lots of finger pointing going on there since the manufacturer's assessment is the final word.

In my case with the previous Michelin's, there was a recall out on the tire and no one asked as to what I was using them for, nor did the tire dealer or manufacturer know as to what application my Michelin's were being used for. For all intentions they could have been used for tire swings and Michelin would have exchanged them if the met the requirements of the recall, which were model, make, build date, and serial numbers.

The lack of a warranty due to my use of an LT tire in an ST application is a non starter as far as I'm concerned due to what I have seen so far from Michelin both on product performance level in my application and their attitude when there have been manufacturing defects and how they handled recalls.

Jack

[boondockdad]

Two items to note:

The first Michelin rep telling me LTX on a travel trailers voids the warranty threw me for a loop because that would suggest there’s some special magic in ST tires.

Second, I wasn’t notified of the recall on these tires. The tire engineer that contributes here pointed out (in another thread) the law that requires either the dealer to handle registration or give the buyer the registration card with the tire codes filled out.

I’ve been back to the Discount Tire that installed the bad Michelin’s, and noted they give buyers the registration cards now.

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by boondockdad

Two items to note:

The first Michelin rep telling me LTX on a travel trailers voids the warranty threw me for a loop because that would suggest there’s some special magic in ST tires.

Second, I wasn’t notified of the recall on these tires. The tire engineer that contributes here pointed out (in another thread) the law that requires either the dealer to handle registration or give the buyer the registration card with the tire codes filled out.

I’ve been back to the Discount Tire that installed the bad Michelin’s, and noted they give buyers the registration cards now.

First keep in mind that the recall I was talking about was the LTX MS/2 tires that were produced back almost 7 years ago. I know when I bought those, I received no registration card. I bought those from Discount Tire over their Internet site and I never filled out any registration. I'm assuming back then, Discount did that paper work since I did receive a letter from Michelin. Keep in mind also back then, Michelin sent the letter to all owners of that model tire. In that letter they identified the serial numbers of the tires and while I matched all the criteria, my tires fell outside of the serial number range of the recalled tires.

The difference in the ST tire is its ability to withstand the sheer forces that occur on the sidewalls when a tire is subject the the pivot motions that occur when sharp turns occur. Much like when you back into a space at an angle. If you look at a concrete pad or road you will see the black marks left by the trailer tires as they skid rather than turn in those tight maneuvers. As noted by Tireman9 that if you use LT's you should keep the pressures up to resist that force on the sidewalls.

My problem very simply is that I believe that ST tires on a heavy trailer tend to lose strength as they age which make they more prone to belt slippage and subsequent failures. I had that happen to me on Marathon's and Maxxis E rated tires ST tires, with the Marathon's failing at the end of season 3 of use and the Maxxis failing at the first trip of season 4. Both tires were carefully maintained at max sidewall pressures, and the trailer was stored inside when it wasn't rolling.

Quite honestly I find it's more economical to buy the LT Michelins rather than replace the ST tires every 2-3 years. While there are many user's who have had great performance with ST's, I really believe the weight of the heavier Airstreams have a lot to do with the failures we have seen. My Classic Slideout, up to the release of the 33' Classic's were the heaviest trailers that Airstream produced on tandem axles.

My local dealership who sells other manufacturer's trailers told me that some of his heavy 5th wheels were being OEM'd with LT tires rather than ST's. As for me at this point after 6+ years of service with the Michelin's, it really was a no brainer with me as to whether I would take the LT route a second time. My real struggle was how long to go with the LTX MS/2 models before I would replace them. My normal practice with ST's prior to owning my Airstream was every 5th season. With year 7 coming in July of 2019, I figured that I'd play it safe and replace this spring.

Jack

[switz]

My local Discount Tire store allowed me to purchase their tire replacement policy on both the 16" Michelins on our 2014 Classic and the 15" Michelins on our 2015 23D International Serenity. They fully understood the Michelins were being mounted on an Airstream trailer.

When our 2014 Classic was built, the 16" Michelins were standard on the Eddie Bauer trailers and were available for purchase. The 16" Michelins continue to be for sale at the entrance to the Factory service center for any wide body Airstream that came with 15" tires as they were only a 0.45" larger in diameter. Many folks have also installed the 16" Michelin on their single axle trailers.

Tire size comparison

16" Michelin LT225/75R16/E LTX M/S2 tire is rated 2,680 pounds @ 80 psi and 29.2" diameter

15" Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL tire is rated 2,183 pounds @ 50 psi - derated to 1,985 pounds and 28.9" diameter

15" GYM ST225/75R15D tire is rated 2,540 pounds @ 65 psi and 28.3” diameter

15" GYE ST225/75R15 tire is rated 2,830 pounds @ 80 psi and 28.3" diameter

14" GYM ST215/75R14C tire is rated 1,870 pounds @ 50 psi and 26.7" diameter

The 16" Michelins will work in any wide body twin or triple axle Airstream 25' and longer. The increase in ground clearance is 0.45" plus more proven reliability.

We upgraded the stock 14" GYM tires and wheels on our 2015 23D to the 15" Michelin tires above on 15" SenDel T03-56545T wheels rated 2,150 pounds at 60 psi that match the 16" SenDel T03-66655T wheels mounted on our Classic with the 16" Michelin tires. This elevated the 23D 1.1" to the same elevation of our 2013 25FB so the reused Hensley hitch of the 25FB worked with no modifications of settings on the 23D using the same tow vehicle.

The 15" SenDel wheel mentioned above has the five lug bolt pattern of the 14" stock wheel on our 23D. The center hole is the same diameter as the OEM wheel so we reused the center caps.

The 15" T03-56655SM SenDel for six lug nuts is rated 2,830 pounds at 80 psi.

The Classic's 16" SenDel T03-66655M wheel is rated 3,580 pounds @ 80 psi. The center hole can use the stock Airstream center cap.

[azflycaster]

My local Discount Tire did the same for the 16" LTX on my Safari.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by switz

My local Discount Tire store allowed me to purchase their tire replacement policy on both the 16" Michelins on our 2014 Classic and the 15" Michelins on our 2015 23D International Serenity. They fully understood the Michelins were being mounted on an Airstream trailer.

When our 2014 Classic was built, the 16" Michelins were standard on the Eddie Bauer trailers and were available for purchase. The 16" Michelins continue to be for sale at the entrance to the Factory service center for any wide body Airstream that came with 15" tires as they were only a 0.45" larger in diameter. Many folks have also installed the 16" Michelin on their single axle trailers.

Tire size comparison

16" Michelin LT225/75R16/E LTX M/S2 tire is rated 2,680 pounds @ 80 psi and 29.2" diameter

15" Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL tire is rated 2,183 pounds @ 50 psi - derated to 1,985 pounds and 28.9" diameter

15" GYM ST225/75R15D tire is rated 2,540 pounds @ 65 psi and 28.3” diameter

15" GYE ST225/75R15 tire is rated 2,830 pounds @ 80 psi and 28.3" diameter

14" GYM ST215/75R14C tire is rated 1,870 pounds @ 50 psi and 26.7" diameter

The 16" Michelins will work in any wide body twin or triple axle Airstream 25' and longer. The increase in ground clearance is 0.45" plus more proven reliability.

We upgraded the stock 14" GYM tires and wheels on our 2015 23D to the 15" Michelin tires above on 15" SenDel T03-56545T wheels rated 2,150 pounds at 60 psi that match the 16" SenDel T03-66655T wheels mounted on our Classic with the 16" Michelin tires. This elevated the 23D 1.1" to the same elevation of our 2013 25FB so the reused Hensley hitch of the 25FB worked with no modifications of settings on the 23D using the same tow vehicle.

The 15" SenDel wheel mentioned above has the five lug bolt pattern of the 14" stock wheel on our 23D. The center hole is the same diameter as the OEM wheel so we reused the center caps.

The 15" T03-56655SM SenDel for six lug nuts is rated 2,830 pounds at 80 psi.

The Classic's 16" SenDel T03-66655M wheel is rated 3,580 pounds @ 80 psi. The center hole can use the stock Airstream center cap.

To be clear, Michelin "used" to also offer a 15" LT rated tire, that many of installed on our AS's. Not sure if it was 2014 or 15, when they stopped offering in 15". (Any help appreciated here on the year.) I installed the LTX 15" MS/2s on my 2014 25' FC, arguing with the installer that the "rating" would support the weight; he arguing, that they now are P rated tires...but he begrudgingly said, yes and installed them. I noticed a big difference over the previous 2008 AS 25' Safari I had the Michelins installed on prior to the 2014 model...(following me still??) I noticed the P rated newer Michelins, although they may have been "ok" with supporting the weight per the tire chart, they felt mushy and I am certain the trailer faded or seemed to wander a bit more then the earlier LT rated Michelins I had been using. Reading the Forum, if I was so fixated on Michelins, I should have upgraded to 16" Sendals, and gotten the Michelins LT rated to be safe. Well, now I have the 28' and swapped out the GYM's with the LT rated GY Endurance and I am happy...no issues. Running at 50-55PSI for my weight, happy with the ride, and performance so far. Moral for me is, if you want the Michelins and don't have 15" wheels, do the right thing and upgrade your wheels to 16" so you can at least get an LT rated Michelin...or go with the GYE's newer Endurance model at 15". (Whew!)

[Native143]

Maybe a little late to this forum topic, but I have Michelin LRE XPS tires on my single axle 2013 FC20. LT225/R75/16. Pressure at 50-55 psi. They came with my AS when I bought it, well traded up for it last year. I like the ride they give and the wear on the tires is amazing. Also, how do you know what make wheel you have? I see names tossed around but don't see any on my rims. They have 6 lug nuts and are silver :-)

[KBAR]

Checked Discount Tire for the 16" Michelin LT225/75R16/E LTX M/S2. The web site reports these tires are no longer available. So where to now

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by KBAR

Checked Discount Tire for the 16" Michelin LT225/75R16/E LTX M/S2. The web site reports these tires are no longer available. So where to now

The M/S 2 has been discontinued for a few years now. Here is the replacement that while no longer produced since April 1st in the 225 75 R 16 size, is still in stock. https://www.discounttiredirect.com/b...tx-m-s/p/27059 I just received mine 2 days ago. They were manufactured in January 2019.

Jack

[Mollysdad]

What is a tire warranty?
They're prorated, so if your tire fails after couple of years, you only get a tiny portion of what you paid.
Is any warranty a "I'll give you a new tire if it failed in the first two years."???

Many years ago I had a set of Firestone 721's. Within months of each other all four delaminated. Did I want to replace them with more Firestones? NO!

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

What is a tire warranty?
They're prorated, so if your tire fails after couple of years, you only get a tiny portion of what you paid.
Is any warranty a "I'll give you a new tire if it failed in the first two years."???

Many years ago I had a set of Firestone 721's. Within months of each other all four delaminated. Did I want to replace them with more Firestones? NO!

I do believe that Discount Tire’s optional road hazard warranty is a new tire during the first 3 years or a refund. Unfortunately road hazards don’t occur when you are home. They are on the road and at that point you then have to rely upon a most likely old spare or purchase whatever you can find at the locale you are at. My own history in 45 years of towing just doesn’t justify paying for road hazard warranties.

Jack

[PKI]

The down side to that warranty, is that it does not cover the tire that was overloaded when the first tire went low from the road hazard. It also does not replace a tire that can be repaired. Both of those tires have to be degraded. My brain just says it must be so. Consequently, I'd rather save the warranty money and buy a pair of new tires when that problem develops. Irrational, unjustifiable, unbalanced - yes, but insurance against shredded aluminum and the price of admission to shiny travel. Pat

[KBAR]

this is the correct wheel? to upgrade to 16" tires

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...VJWAPMI2&psc=1

[Native143]

Originally Posted by KBAR

Checked Discount Tire for the 16" Michelin LT225/75R16/E LTX M/S2. The web site reports these tires are no longer available. So where to now

Try these. Michelin LRE XPS LT225/75R/16. I've had these tires on my single axle 2013 FC20. Love the ride.