Two tire questions.

[Hans627]

I don't have my AS yet and am still collecting information thanks to many on the Air Forum.

Risking appearing somewhat stupid (not the first time this has happened), what is an LT tire? Apparently this is not the tire used from the factory. It seems like I should already know but I keep drawing a blank.

Secondly, I see some people changing to 16" wheels and tires. Why do some see the need to change? Or another way of asking is, are they better in some way?

As always, thanks!

[AWCHIEF]

1. LT, light truck
2. Some people just like to fiddle and upgrade. In my opinion, not always necessary.

[Airtandem]

Michael; what are you running as tires/wheels?
mike

[Hans627]

What tires are standard on a new AS?

Are they adequate?

Thanks!

[scamp]

If there goodyear explozathons ( marathons) you may want to change to LT tires (michelin ) and in 16" rims as the goodyear tires made in China then to blowout.just do a search on this forum ,there is also a survey on tires,thats if you have room for the larger LT Tires and rims.

Don

[perryg114]

Most trailers come with ST (special trailer) tires. These tires are low tech and tend to blow out. Many are made overseas with little quality control. LT is a light truck tire and is rated for passenger use and comes in higher load ratings than car tires. When used on a trailer they are usually on 16 inch rims as opposed to 15 inch rims. I think the Eddy Bower comes with the 16 inch LT tires. If your trailer is under 8000 lbs total you can run 235/75-XL15 tires that are called P-metric tires. These tires are speed rated and offer a soft cushy ride. This is fine for Airstreams since they have a low center of gravity. ST tires are best suited for top heavy square box trailers or garbage trailers. They have high pressures and light weight construction. Some say they have a stiffer sidewall but I think that has more to do with the high pressures that they run. I put them on lightly loaded trailers that sit in the yard a lot. There are some on here that think the world will come to an end if you don't use ST tires. I have the opposite view. If you care about it, don't put ST tires on it. Most RV's are never used or used for short trips so the ST tire problems are not seen. For folks that run the heck out of tires the ST tires start to fail with age, high mileage, and high speeds in hot weather.

Perry

[moosetags]

The OEM Marathons are not real great if you actually want to tow the trailer anywhere. We have had two 25FB's, an '05 and a '15. We have replaced the OEM Marathons with Michelin 16" LT's on both trailers based upon our experience with the Junk ST tires on the 2005 Safari.

Brian

[PaulnGina]

I have Goodyear Marathons on our 1987 Avion 34W.... six of them. Not one problem with any of them. We bought our trailer 18 months ago, towed it home 1000 miles on some really crummy roads, and have put another 1000 miles or so on not-nearly-new tires. The suspension on our Avion is very good, not sure it needs different tires for a "cushy" ride. I could leave a writing pen on the dining table in our trailer, drive all day, and the pen would still be on the table. The main thing an owner needs to do is make sure the tires are in good shape, monitor the tire pressure, and replace them every 5-6 years. LT tires can help get you more load capacity, or help if you think you need to tow a trailer down the road at 70-75 mph.... not recommended anyway, for lots of reasons!

Here's a good video to watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6SwwRnmp1Q

I agree with a previous reply...... lots of people like to fiddle with stuff, and some of that is the "everyone else is doing it" syndrome.

I'd like to also add: sometimes, no matter how careful you are with your tires, a blowout can happen. Doesn't necessarily mean the tire was inherently "crap".

[AWCHIEF]

I put over 10,000 miles on my Bambi II. So far about 3,000 on the Safari. GYMs on both trailers.

[switz]

One I got the trailer home, I immediately upgraded our 2013 25FB from the stock 15" Good Years to the 15" Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL tires rated 2,183 pounds @ 50 psi but derated to 1,985 pounds per Federal Regulation 49 CFR 571.110:

Tire selection and rims and motor home/recreation vehicle trailer load carrying capacity information for motor vehicles with a GVWR of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) or less.


S4.2.2.1
Except as provided in S4.2.2.2, the sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle shall not be less than the GAWR of the axle system as specified on the vehicle's certification label required by 49 CFR part 567. If the certification label shows more than one GAWR for the axle system, the sum shall be not less than the GAWR corresponding to the size designation of the tires fitted to the axle.

S4.2.2.2
When passenger car tires are installed on an MPV, truck, bus, or trailer, each tire's load rating is reduced by dividing it by 1.10 before determining, under S4.2.2.1, the sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle.

S4.2.2.3
(a) For vehicles, except trailers with no designated seating positions, equipped with passenger car tires, the vehicle normal load on the tire shall be no greater than 94 percent of the derated load rating at the vehicle manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressure for that tire.
(b) For vehicles, except trailers with no designated seating positions, equipped with LT tires, the vehicle normal load on the tire shall be no greater than 94 percent of the load rating at the vehicle manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressure for that tire.

Those tires had plenty of load capacity for the 25FB at 7,300 pounds GVW. (4 x 1985 = 7,940 pounds) We had a tongue weight of 1,150 pounds, so even fully loaded the tires would have supported around 6,500 pounds with the weight distribution hitch.

When the new Classic arrived with a GVW of 10,000 pounds, I took the trailer directly to the storage unit and replaced the 15" stock Good Years with 16" Michelin LT225/75R16/E LTX M/S2 tires mounted on 16" SenDel wheels and attached with McGard 24138 Chrome Cone Seat Wheel Locks and McGard 64010 Chrome Bulge Cone Seat Style Lug Nuts (1/2" - 20 Thread Size).

The 25FB had Centramatic model 200-221 Special wheel balancers while the Classic has the model 300-356 all"A" plates Centramatics. The Classic also has the Dill 1506-453 TPMSsystem.

The tire reading material on this forum can take a long time to read let alone absorb and decipher facts from opinions. Along with personal experience with a dual axle motorcycle trailer and all I read here I knew I wanted different tires than Good Year Marathon ST tires. My Airstream is too large an investment to worry about the cost of tires versus thousands in repairs from a failing tire beating the aluminum out of the wheel well and trailer side panels.

I have driven only on Michelin tires for nearly 50 years and never have had a tire failure.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by moosetags

The OEM Marathons are not real great if you actually want to tow the trailer anywhere. We have had two 25FB's, an '05 and a '15. We have replaced the OEM Marathons with Michelin 16" LT's on both trailers based upon our experience with the Junk ST tires on the 2005 Safari.



Brian

It's a cheap upgrade, OP. The above man is a very high mile user. The rest of us aren't willing to wait to be crippled going down the road. Tires are central. ST cannot be used for pax service. It's okay for your lawnmower trailer.

If you lose a tire with a blowout you may be looking at a $7000+ repair bill to the trailer.

[photomikey2]

Two kinds of tires:

ST (Special Trailer) tires which are made for higher pressures, for sitting around and not getting moved a lot, and for not wearing thin on the tread - i.e. you would replace them after 5 or 6 years, not 40 or 50,000 miles like you're used to with vehicle tires. These tires are almost exclusively made in China and shipped to the US.

LT (Light Truck) tires which are made for light trucks. These tires run lower tire pressures (like what you're used to in a passenger vehicle). You can find tires that are made various places, some are made in the US.

To put the tire discussion aside for a moment, and discuss cold hard realities... Most trailers, including travel trailers, which includes airstreams, sit motionless about 95% of the time. Tires aren't really meant to do that, so after sitting out in the bright sun for 18 months, the owner fills the water tanks full, tosses the suitcases in, makes two right turns and three minutes later is going 75 MPH on the freeway. The trailer, which has developed a significant flat spot on the tires and has probably experienced some dry rot, blows a tire 10 minutes in, which then causes the owner to hop out, kick the remaining tire, let out a slew of curse words, and swear he will never use another Goodyear Marathon.

About 5% of trailers are babied, lived in, or researched heavily. These owners have decided that LT tires are better (because these people, before they retired, lived the above scenario where they had a ST blowout). Even when they don't camp every weekend, they take their trailer out for a spin to get the flat spots out once a month, in the wintertime they lift it up on jack stands, they cover the tires to protect them from the sun, and they dutifully buy new tires every 5 years, regardless of condition. They seldom/never experience blowouts. You can count this toward the fact that they don't blow out because they are LT tires, or you can say that they don't blow out because the trailers are babied.

My $0.02 is that ST's are designed to sit around a lot, and that's what my trailer does. LT's are not designed for the weight load and the friction of double axle trailers, nor for the prolonged sitting around. I chose to go up a weight class and get better tires. They haven't blown out yet. Others will disagree. When all else fails, ask a tire guy. My experience from asking several is that when you ask about putting LT tires on a trailer, they look at you cross eyed and say... "why would you do that?". That was when I decided to go with ST tires.

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, one person with a ten year old trailer is still running Marathons and another person had tons of problems with them on a similar trailer of the same size and year.

Buy your trailer.
Change to LT tires and wheels.
Change to disc brakes.
Buy a million dollar hitch.
Don't forget to buy the magic brake controller too.
You will need two 15,000 BTU air conditioners.
This will need a 50 amp system.
Awnings for all windows.
And now you will need a 7,000 watt generator.
Then six $300.00 batteries.
600 watts of solar panels.
Make sure to bring a $500.00 Dyson vacuum cleaner too.
and with all of this on your brand new 16' Bambie.
You will be happily cruising down the freeway towing with your new Kenworth.

If I missed any other essentials, I'm sure someone will let us know.

[roundrobin]

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS

Hi, one person with a ten year old trailer is still running Marathons and another person had tons of problems with them on a similar trailer of the same size and year.

Buy your trailer.
Change to LT tires and wheels.
Change to disc brakes.
Buy a million dollar hitch.
Don't forget to buy the magic brake controller too.
You will need two 15,000 BTU air conditioners.
This will need a 50 amp system.
Awnings for all windows.
And now you will need a 7,000 watt generator.
Then six $300.00 batteries.
600 watts of solar panels.
Make sure to bring a $500.00 Dyson vacuum cleaner too.
and with all of this on your brand new 16' Bambie.
You will be happily cruising down the freeway towing with your new Kenworth.

If I missed any other essentials, I'm sure someone will let us know.

I just joined but I did full time for 6 years and towed a 14000lbs 5th wheel with Marathon ST tires. Never had a bit of problems in 40000 miles. I totally agree with you. If you want to spend some money, buy a good tire pressure gauge and a good air pump. Check your pressures often ( before leaving, after sitting a long time, temp changes, altitude changes etc...) Visual inspection before every trip is a must.

Cheers
Al

[Phoenix]

The following is a data summary for the Airstream Tire Failure Poll, as of 02/08/15:

• Cumulative total members who completed the poll since it was original posted on 05/01/11:
  
  - As of 12/2011 = 95
  
  - As of 12/2012 = 135
  
  - As of 12/2013 = 190
  
  - As of today (12/08/2015)= 218

• Total number of members who reported tire failures in the past five years = 120 (55%)
  
  
• Total number of members who reported NO tire failures in the past five years = 101 (45%)
  
  Notes:
  
  - Totals do not add up due to three persons who checked both of these boxes.
  
  - Percentages have not varied more than 1-2% since 2011.
  
  
• Total number of tire failures = 160
  
  
• Total number of LT tires that failed = 2
  
  - Michelin (unknown model) = 1 tire (10 years old)
  
  - BF Goodrich Commercial TA = 1 tire
  
  Note: Investigation of a couple of reported LT tire failures revealed that they were actually ST tires.
  
  
• Total number of "Unknown/Other" tire types that failed = 7
  
  
• Total number of ST tires that failed = 151 (estimated, due to a couple of inaccurate entries)

It seems many of the opinions expressed state that there is nothing wrong with ST tires, and most failures are caused by Airstream owners NOT maintaining the proper tire pressure.

It's hard for me to imagine that 120 out of 218 AirForums members had 151 ST tire failures, because they failed to check their tires and ran them under-inflated. I know that I always maintained 65 psi on the LR-D tires and 80 psi on the LR-E's, and I can't believe that all 120 members were this irresponsible.

Sorry to repeat myself, but in the first five years after we bought our 2005 Bambi, I had six ST tires: Three OEM GYMs, one Carlisle, and two Maxxis. Of these, three failed, which approximates the failure rate reflected in the tire failure poll.

In January 2011, I installed two Michelin XPS Rib LT tires; and I have had absolutely no tire problems in the four years since then. I'm sure that most, if not all, of those who installed 16" wheels and LT tires have had a similar lack of tire problems (except for road hazards; e.g., nails, debris, etc.).

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but there is no way I would switch back to ST tires.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Two AS's, one boat trailer, 27yrs, 16 tires, three failures, two punctures and a valve stem.

Got three more Seasons left on the Classics' GYM's, will be switching them out for E rated 15" ST's....go figger.

"Grey skies for some, silver for others'.
Try to stay on the silver side!"
RLC

Bob

[Msmoto]

Gosh, I towed my 2007 25 foot International about 15,000 miles, my 2009 27 FB Int about 25,000 miles, never had a tire issue. Went across the Rockies, Black Hills, long Interstate distances.. Trailers were stored outside....see avatar.

Always, before a trip, check the wheel bolts and tire presses maintaining within a half pound the 65 lb/in as specified and correct wheel nut torque.

Now, with a slightly heavier 30 RB Int Serenity, I am wondering if the OEM tires are OK. I think I will just do my due diligence before each trip and hope for the best. IMO, the biggest issue with tire failures is not proper maintenance. And, as I store the trailer inside, atmospheric conditions are very good.

Maybe a poll on what tire pressures, how often checked, do you use a certified air pressure gauge, etc., could be done. Unfortunately gauges are not always accurate. Oh well.....

A side note.....if AS offers an option on wheel/tire packages I have never been made aware of this. And, I am one who generally looks at an options page like .."oh, yes, check all the above"...LOL

[r carl]

Originally Posted by PaulnGina

I have Goodyear Marathons on our 1987 Avion 34W.... six of them.
I'd like to also add: sometimes, no matter how careful you are with your tires, a blowout can happen. Doesn't necessarily mean the tire was inherently "crap".

Fact is, running st tires you have a 50% chance one of them is going to blowout. If you have a blowout your not taking your Avion to Jackson center to get repaired. Your going to get a check for your totaled trailer.

[paiceman]

Originally Posted by Hans627

I don't have my AS yet and am still collecting information thanks to many on the Air Forum.

Risking appearing somewhat stupid (not the first time this has happened), what is an LT tire? Apparently this is not the tire used from the factory. It seems like I should already know but I keep drawing a blank.

Secondly, I see some people changing to 16" wheels and tires. Why do some see the need to change? Or another way of asking is, are they better in some way?

As always, thanks!

Hans627 I posted in another post that you can order the 16" Wheels and LT Michelins directly from the factory. We had good experiences with the Goodyear Marathons, however, I did adhere to the warnings put out about ST tires and did not exceed 65 MPH and did not drive at 65 MPH for too long a period, always kept it around 55-60. Put 16" on a previous 30' AS and liked them as I could then motor along at 70 and sometimes + to make up some time. Ordering from the factory was simple and worked. We got this trailer from Airstream of Western PA, in Greensburg and the sales person there, George, ordered the wheels and tires for us. I know Colonial, Lauren, can do the same you are about in the middle of these two dealers.

Good Luck

Bud

[ROBERT CROSS]

I really enjoy it when all these "facts" are brought kicking & screaming into the light of day.





Bob