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Old 09-03-2006, 08:18 PM   #15
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Maximum weight for the 20" tires is 2403 pounds per tire. That equates out to nearly 10,000 pounds of vehicle, including all loads. The Yukon should weigh about 6,000-6500 pounds, plus all your gear (this is a guesstimate). I am going on the high side with thinking you have three friends that weigh 250 pounds each (just for ease of figuring), that means you have 2,000 pounds for "stuff", including food, fuel, and the trailer. A Yukon came into my shop last week with a 40 gallon tank, so 40x8 (pounds per gallon)=320 pounds, leaving you with 1600 pounds for the rest of your stuff, including the trailer. Tongue weight is around 400 pounds, leaving you with about 1200 pounds. That sounds like a lot, but only works out to a 300 pound per tire safety margin for capacity. All the figures above, except the tire weight capacity are educated guesses, but you can plug in your own numbers to see where you are for sure in this situation.
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Old 09-03-2006, 08:46 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlbertF
The performance/handling considerations are significant, but the tongue weight of a 19' Bambi distributed over the 4 tires of a vehicle with a payload capacity of at least 1500 lbs is not going to be an issue.

The added weight shouldn't amount to much more than 125 lbs per tire.
Good point Albert.

Tonque weight is about 650lbs + 100lb equalizer,ie 750lbs / 4 = an extra 188lb load on each tire?

What if instead, forget the trailer. If I simply invite 4 of my friends to drive down the road with me along with some tent gear... I now have an extra 4x170lbs/body = 680lbs + 300lbs of gear.. so an extra 980lbs in the Yukon. Thats an extra 245lb load on each tire.

Back to Airstreaming...

If I have one passenger (170lbs) and say 300lbs of gear plus the trailer tonque weight (with hitch) of 750lbs, that would be 1220lbs load or an extra 305lbs load on each tire.

So is that extra 50lbs of load going to mean a much stronger tire?

This whole issue raises a point I am wondering about...

Are SUV's more normally equiped with tires suitable for hauling extra passengers, hauling gear and towing boats and popups, then towing heavier loads like a 4000+ house trailer? Passenger tires are probably a 'smoother' ride as well, and more likely to be what the SUV comes with.

For heavier hauling do you usually have to order a new vehicle with light truck weight tires instead of stock?

Or as Albert suggests, the extra load isn't really significant, especially considering this is a 19ft Bambi loaded at 4000lbs.
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Old 09-03-2006, 08:58 PM   #17
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20" wheels are certainly becoming more common, but stop and consider what it would do to your vacation if you ended up waiting for 1-2 days in a small town in the middle of nowhere for a tire replacement?!? That's not too uncommon a scenario with such a tire size. Be sure to check the GAWR for the rear axle on your prospective vehicle and keep that in mind while you're doing your calculations. Either way, I think you'll be in specs towing the Bambi. Good luck with your decision!
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Old 09-03-2006, 08:59 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overlander63
Maximum weight for the 20" tires is 2403 pounds per tire. That equates out to nearly 10,000 pounds of vehicle, including all loads. The Yukon should weigh about 6,000-6500 pounds, plus all your gear (this is a guesstimate). I am going on the high side with thinking you have three friends that weigh 250 pounds each (just for ease of figuring), that means you have 2,000 pounds for "stuff", including food, fuel, and the trailer. A Yukon came into my shop last week with a 40 gallon tank, so 40x8 (pounds per gallon)=320 pounds, leaving you with 1600 pounds for the rest of your stuff, including the trailer. Tongue weight is around 400 pounds, leaving you with about 1200 pounds. That sounds like a lot, but only works out to a 300 pound per tire safety margin for capacity. All the figures above, except the tire weight capacity are educated guesses, but you can plug in your own numbers to see where you are for sure in this situation.
Our situation is a 170lb driver + one 140lb passenger, occassionally another light weight teen (130lbs) and 300lbs of gear max in the tv.

No 3rd row seat which helps out too.

Heck we and our gear used to fit in a PT cruiser for a few years LOL.
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Old 09-03-2006, 09:56 PM   #19
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campadk ,

You will find that the 20s will give you a much more stable vehical ,the low
profile tires have a short sidewall and less flex .Thats what goodyear eagles
are for ,as most low profile tires ,much better handling available ,they are
a performance tire .They will cost some money to replace when needed .
they can be 150 bucks a tire ,yes thats right ,it is possible in some areas .
the michelins are the best tires ,really made well ,longer lasting ,the eagles
might give you 15000 to 20000 miles as they are a soft compound tire also.
remember those are a performance tire .I believe you should get the michelin
and the 16 " do to the longer life and quality of the tire .With the WD hitch
you should not have any problems with the tires ,again be carefull about all
the numbers and confusion involved ,read the michelin sidewall ,what is the max load per tire ,you have four ,can they do the job ,simply put .


Scott
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Old 09-03-2006, 10:17 PM   #20
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the goodyear eagles are good tires.

the michelin ltx is a better tire and should last for more miles...

until you weigh your loaded rig most weight issues are pure speculation...

i agree the bambi doesn't add more than 180lbs per corner...IF the w/d system is perfectly adjusted....

but what IF you toss a 100lbs of firewood or beer in the back? are you gonna readjust the w/d bars? probably not. how about need to tow with all the holding tanks FULL or dealing with a blowout on the trailer? safety issues that push the limits of any component when it's needed most?

almost everyone under estimates how much they carry...

i realize you are coming from a teardrop and used to travelin' light.

nothing in my post above suggests one shouldn't tow with low profile tires on 20 inch rims...

these are just the issues that need to be considered, calculated and so on...

lots of folks like the look of bigger wheels and lower profile tires...

regardless of the vehicle...looks are a personal/social construct.

but many are confused about if/how bigger wheels affect handling...

i can think of only 2 reasons anyone on any vehicle should NEED to move to larger rims....

1. tires are no longer available for the original rim size/tire spec.
2. the braking system has be upgraded to larger rotors/calipers and a bigger rim is needed for clearance. like putting big reds or stoptechs on the family sport car...

there may be other good reasons. i can't think of any now. all other reasons are aesthetics...

sometimes stock rim/tires are really heavy
and moving to a larger but lighter combo helps performance....
this is primarily an issue for small track cars...not full size suvs.

using 20s for towing just involves closer attention to the issues listed.

some things to add to what is already listed...

-wider tires will tramline more easily and not handle water as well.
-not only more frequent balancing but it takes great skill to properly balance the larger/wider setup.
-if the suv has any alignment issues they will be magnified with 20s...
-wear patterns like shoulder wear or uneven wear will be more pronounced...

and still there is the issue of a spare?

while i'm sure you are a very*careful driver,
let me repeat that a higher % of suvs with wheel mods rollover than not.

if faced with the choice of 2 equal used suvs
and one came with just the factory/stock wheel/tires
and the other had stock AND a set of 'dubs...

i'd but the suv with both sets.
drive on the dubs for a while....not towing.
then i'd sell the dubs and use the money
for a tranny cooler or new tires or brake pads or a brake controller or....beer.

cheers
2air'
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Old 09-03-2006, 10:32 PM   #21
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I agree with 2air ,that wide tire will really not do well in the rain .we have nitto tires on our 95 impala 17" oem wheels and they are not very good in the rain ,nor were the comp t/a tires that came on it originally ,rain and wide tires
are not a good combination.


Scott
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Old 09-04-2006, 10:39 AM   #22
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I'm certainly learning a lot here from everyone. 2air especially has always been a wealth of info on a variety of topics I have brought up since we first looked at an Airstream. Thanks!

A note on the 20". I am positive these are the same tire size (OSD) as the 16" rim. I doubt the owner would go through the expense to swap OSD each summer/winter.. doesn't make sense.

I like 2airs idea... take Vehicle #1 which I believe has great snow tires, try out the 20" and replace if/when necessary. Since this season we will only be going probably once to try out the Bambi about 2 1/2 hours away, I'm not worried. I can defer this till next spring if it becomes a requirement. Not cheap to replace the 20" with tire and rims, but I am willing to do so if need be. At least I get a set of snow tires which is a real plus here in the north.

I will check on the spare. I'd assume that if I blew a tire, regardless of whether there is a 20" rim spare or the 16", either could be mounted to get me home... same OSD... or am I wrong?

My calculations show my total loaded vehicle weight (passengers, gear, trailer and hitch) is around 6400lbs, thats only 1600lbs per tire, which are rated at 2400lbs each. So I'm only at 66.6% of rated tire capacity... not too bad. Even if I miscalculated and brought another 400lbs of crap, thats only 100lbs per tire more bringing us to 70% of rated tire capacity.

No doubt I'll be playing at the scales shortly and making adjustments as necessary!

Since our Jeep is now sold and long going, I guess we'll be riding our bikes around tommorrow to purchase one of those Yukons.


Thanks everyone.
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Old 09-04-2006, 12:42 PM   #23
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hello campadk,

Are you saying that the wide tires are snow tires?You will be sliding around in the snow like crazy on those ,a big wide shallow tread for road driving does not make a snow tire ,if you have not had the experience of it ,you
will .Have you ever seen any jeep vehical in snow with wide performance
low profile tires on it? Those tires are for dry roads and grip on dry pavement
thats it.They are poor in the rain ,you will be out in the rain sometime .

good luck in your decision.

Scott
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Old 09-04-2006, 12:58 PM   #24
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hi campadk....

i didn't see the tire sizes that were included in your earlier post....now i do.

these are yukon denali xl models right? 4x4 2003?

originally came with either 265/70/16s or 265/70/17s....

i suspect the smaller size because of the smaller engine.

anyway the 275/55/20s DO increase osd from 30.6 inches to 31.9 inches...

-this is roughly 4% larger. so hp/torque to the ground is reduced by approximately this much.

-speedo will be off by 4%...reading 60mph when going 63...beware of chps!


towing and braking parameters change too but the calculation will take some other motorhead to cypher.

55s aren't terriblly low profile tires....i've got 35s on one set....
and the one advantage to larger osd tires is the side wall height....
more sidewall=more curb forgiveness so the 55s are almost as tall as the stock tires.

but the spare IS now a real issue. these 4x4 systems do not like mix matched sizes.....of more than 2 percent or so....

of course, you may never have a flat either.....

here is a tire size calculator that lets you play with variations and does the math for ya....and includes graphics....

http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

also google 'plus sizing' tires (not people) and there are several sites with basic info on 1plus, 2plus...or your '4 plus' sizing....

also you might want to visit the tirerack site, they've got examples of lots of size/model combos....
so you can understand how much 20s cost IF you need to buy some...

seeing how much difference these 20s have...4% is a lot....usually i try to keep plus sizing changes to 2% or less....

on the width issue the 275s are only 1/2 inch wider than 265s
but the tire design means the shoulder is shaped squarer so the footprint is wider...
this would be most obvoius by measuring/viewing a wet tread pattern....
the 2 will appear more than 1/2 inch different.

so i've changed my mind. i'd opt for the 17s with michelins....as a better all around compromise.
and again that assumes 2 idential yukons....
probably there are mileage, care and other subtle differences in them...

i don't live in california either....so much sunshine, so much bling!

cheers
2air'
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Old 09-04-2006, 01:35 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
so much bling!
If it's purpose is to be a Tow Vehicle,make it the best T/V you can.

To quote a phrase you hear in the serious 4x4 off-road community "chrome don't get you home".

You could buy #1,and change the wheels and tires...
or you could buy #2 and change the wheels (same size) to ones you like.

I'd buy the better truck, wheels and tires are easy.
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Old 09-04-2006, 01:50 PM   #26
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The four pickups I've owned with the towing package have all deleted the fancy wheels for the plain steel wheels.

1979 LWB GMC Sierra Classic diesel
1985 LWB Chevy Silverado gasser
1993 LWB Dodge Dakota gasser
2003 LWB Dodge Ram diesel

I've never heard of a decorative wheel improving towing capacity.

OK, on edit, I'll take that back. I just noticed Mark's post above - the Power Wagon has fancy, strong wheels.

Lamar
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Old 09-04-2006, 02:12 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SafeHarbor

I've never heard of a decorative wheel improving towing capacity.

OK, on edit, I'll take that back. I just noticed Mark's post above - the Power Wagon has fancy, strong wheels.
Hi Lamar,

I agree, but there are plenty of good looking improved capacity wheels out there.

BTW, my wheels are stock 17" Alcoa with a special bead seat to allow airing down the tires for better off-road performance, comes with the PowerWagon package.
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Old 09-04-2006, 07:40 PM   #28
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We need to be clear on one major thing everyone ,the eagle is a wide low profile tire ,look at the pictures ,major difference ,the tires are wider than the actual size dictates ,you need to put the two side by side and its immediately clear.lets be safe ,and not recommend a tire for performance corner driving.
already the idea is that they are snow tires ,good grief someone goning to get hurt ,and I hate for that to happen ,and to say that you will only drive
on the sunny days is hard to understand .Those eagles are half as tall as the
michelins , I have had experience with the impalas tires in the rain ,I have to drive slower than should be needed ,and when i hit a puddle on the freeway
i have to hold the wheel ,they are 255 75 R 17 inch wide and slippery and
have made me real uncomfortable ,I have pulled our trdwnd in the pouring
nebraska rains at 55 mph with 31 10-50 15 tires BFgoodrich all terraines and
never ever experienced any problems with the weather .I run 15x8 steel wheels .Im not bragging by no means ,but safety is my primary towing concern as it should be for everyone.

Scott
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