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Old 07-22-2004, 05:41 PM   #15
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I gotta go with Inland Andy on this one. Good enough for the AS factory is good enough for me. I might scrimp on other things but the 180 bucks I spent on Marathons was money well spent IMHO.
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Old 07-22-2004, 06:15 PM   #16
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Tcwilliams.

You have it correct.

Once any steel wheel has been is service for an extended period of time, with a load range "C" tire on it, you cannot increase the load range to a "D."

To do so will cause wheel failures. Not a good thing.

This information was available over 30 years ago from the wheel manufacturers, and still hold true today.

Mag wheels? Different story.

Andy
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Old 07-22-2004, 06:38 PM   #17
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Wheel load

Andy,

If the total trailer load (or weight) remains constant. How does changing from lower load range tire (say a C) to a higher load range tire (say a D) put added stress on the steel wheels? I assume the higher load range tire weighs more. However, I am thinking may be 5 pounds tops per tire. Is that the issue? Or is there something else that am I missing? - I can see that a tougher tire would be stiffer or a harder ride, causing vibrations in the coach. - loose rivits, things flying around inside. However I do not understand how this would effect the steel wheels.

And if that is the case then the wheel becomes the weak link. So the next Q I have is the tire with the lower rating (the one recomended originally) become the weakest link in drive train pressures. IE if used too hard or missused, such as too fast over train tracks or large pot holes, the tire is sacrificed versus the wheel.

Actually the above words do not really form a question. .......So do the tires protect the wheels with OE equipped trailer?

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Old 07-23-2004, 09:32 AM   #18
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Action.

Why is it that "you" required detailed engineering information about what seems like anything I try to tell others, so they don't get into trouble.

Be my guest. Go try those things out yourself.

"THEN," if you have the time, you can report back, "that you should have listened."

I don't have the time to argue with you about facts. I have better things to do with my time.

People don't want or need engineering facts.

They want "honest answers."

You, for some reason, seem to take the position of being a challenger, because you are a moderator!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have fun, but at your expense, not mine.

You, in my humble judgement, are one of those that lead others, straight to troubles.

Enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!

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Old 07-23-2004, 09:57 AM   #19
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Andy

If you are going to make statements like this "This information was available over 30 years ago from the wheel manufacturers, and still hold true today." then you should be able to qualify it with either engineering data or at least with where the information came from so we as consumers can make informed decisions.
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Old 07-23-2004, 11:03 AM   #20
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I think it's totally unfair to ask Andy to qualify his answer.
If you want to use Tucker tires or other offbrand items,
you have that option.
Now we're probably gonna get a scathing from Andy.
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Old 07-23-2004, 11:50 AM   #21
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The only information I asked Andy to qualify was what information from 30 years ago he is talking about. I have a set of 14.5" 6 hole rims, on the inside clearly marked is the load rating, no restrictions on the amount of plys to be used. I just went out and looked at my old rims (15" 6 hole and they also have the load rating with nothing about ply restriction. So my point is rim failure can probably be traced to overloading not metal fatigue from using to high of ply rating.
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Old 07-23-2004, 11:54 AM   #22
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Well. Here we go with the ad hominem stuff again. There's two types of people out here, those who just want a quick, by the rulebook answer; and those who may want a little more detail. I'm an engineer and belong to the latter group. And I appreciate Andy trying to help out people who don't need to know the details, just want an answer based on experience.
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Old 07-23-2004, 12:38 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upallnight
... I just went out and looked at my old rims (15" 6 hole and they also have the load rating with nothing about ply restriction. So my point is rim failure can probably be traced to overloading not metal fatigue from using to high of ply rating.
It appears that many years ago, tire loading was not specified by Load Range, but rather by ply count. If I remember what I read on one tire maker's website, what is now considered a Load Range C tire had 6 plys whereas a Load Range D tire had at least 8 plys.

Nowadays, with the Load Ranges standardized, it should not matter how many plys there are. As someone else pointed out in another thread, less plys are better when it comes to the tire generating heat.

While a tire with more plys would be stiffer, I think the principal worry of putting LR D tires on a LR C wheel is not the tire itself, but rather the inflation pressure. A LR D tire probably inflates to a higher pressure. And, if not inflated to this pressure, tire failure could occur.

Oh, research from a 30 year old source provides:
ad hom·i·nem ( P ) Pronunciation Key (hm-nm, -nm)
adj.
Appealing to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason: Debaters should avoid ad hominem arguments that question their opponents' motives
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Old 07-23-2004, 01:09 PM   #24
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Andy,

I thought it was a series of pretty benign questions. I am not looking for an arguement. (And I trust you are not either) And I asked the question because I do not know the answer and I thought you would know the answer because you made the statement not to go to higher load range tires. I am also a person that doesn't take any advise if it doesn't make sense. And may be I am slow and everyone else got it. I just don't understand how a higher load range tire can cause wheel failure. And I did not ask for engineering details. (That would be cool if you had them) So when you say "People don't want or need engineering facts." I dissagree. First engineers are people. Second I am looking for data and I am a person. Third is my guess other will want it. So don't throw opinions out and not expect questions.

And my position of being a moderator does not exclude me from asking questions. Challenging is another way of saying that I ask questions. I will take that for a positive. Cause I do. Also I actively own and use an Airstream so this board is for my use as it is for anyone else that shares the interest. And if users follow me in this vein, (asking questions) then I accept the position of leader. I believe intelligent decisions can be made from knowledge and experience.

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Old 07-23-2004, 01:41 PM   #25
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It's not rocket science. Stiffer tires equal more shock impact on the rims and axles.
Trailer tires are a whole different animal from passenger tires.
We can belabor this thread with technical jargon or accept the advice from a guy who has actual experience in inspecting Airstream accidents and the cause.
The question was simple. The answer ain't that hard either if you trust the voice of experience.
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Old 07-23-2004, 02:01 PM   #26
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Application

Rog,

Thanks for your input. The tires are still made of rubber, and the wheel is steel. So a wheel that came with higher load range is different than a wheel with a lower range? Show me the difference and I will be buying that difference.

The usage I want to apply is slow speed (under 45 and mostly 30 and under) and severe service. Mexico! High speed vibration is not a consideration. So the tougher the tire the better. And I don't want a wheeel to break open.

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Old 07-23-2004, 02:21 PM   #27
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Action, I am no expert on tires and lay no claim to fame in that area. I think the Airstream folks know some stuff and they equip their coaches with Goodyear Marathons. I suppose the load range would depend on the weight of the unit plus the load range of the tires that have been in service.
Some interesting info on the difference between P and ST tires can be reviewed on this LINK
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Old 07-23-2004, 06:47 PM   #28
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Rog.

My point, exactly.

I don't have the time to go into infinite details.

If someone wants to take advantage of my 39 years experience, from investigating accidents involving Airstream trailers, to completely remanufacturing them, then great.

If they don't want to believe the things I post, then great too.

Lord knows, some people believe the ridiculus and want proof of facts.

2 is still 2, but we still have some folks that want proof.

Great. Go get the proof and let the rest of us know.

I freely and willingly enjoy sharing my years of being in the line of fire.

I don't enjoy going into great detail, just because someone "wants proof."

I could and I can, but I won't.

This site is supposed to be filled with facts, and to that degree I wish to participate. But there are the select few, that have to make a mountain out of everything.

Those folks obviously have far more time to dabble than I do. I stay very busy helping those that are appreciative, and that is exactly what I will do, to the best of my ability.

For those that choose otherwise, good luck.

For those that elect to lean way over the edge, we can and do, "EVERYDAY" perform thousand of dollars of repairs, correcting the things that should not have happened, but someone was smarter and had the answers, they thought!!!!!!

To those, thanks you for generating hundreds of thousands of dollars of
service work for us, every year.

It really places me in the middle. Should I try and help those that really need it, or should I just sit back and keep on enjoying the profits of "THEIR" mistakes.

Ah yes, I glad we don't have a perfect world.

Andy
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