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Old 10-14-2018, 04:05 PM   #1
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Truck tire versus trailer tire

Having a difficult time understanding how a truck tire will make for a better trailer tire. It's my understanding that trailer tires have thicker side walls and a larger rim bead to support loads. I worry about a blow out all the time and make sure we monitor the tire pressure before, during and after each trip. After reading posts here Ive thought about a new wheel well design to reinforce against such a blow out.
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Old 10-14-2018, 06:56 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by KBAR View Post
Having a difficult time understanding how a truck tire will make for a better trailer tire. It's my understanding that trailer tires have thicker side walls and a larger rim bead to support loads. I worry about a blow out all the time and make sure we monitor the tire pressure before, during and after each trip. After reading posts here Ive thought about a new wheel well design to reinforce against such a blow out.
Do some research on this , the st tires from China are junk......
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Old 10-15-2018, 06:37 AM   #3
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Generally owners will move to a truck tire (LT) because that style would offer a larger tire and/or higher load capacity for the same rim diameter than the choices available for a trailer tire. (ST) OR move to a larger rim diameter can do the same thing. Bigger tire greater load capacity.


With greater load capacity, there is more margin versus riding on tires that are always fully loaded. If the tires are always fully loaded events can occur that can cause failure easier. Slow leak, change in weather drops pressure, road hazards. To a point a greater margin in load capacity will prolong tire life. Passenger vehicles for the most part have way more load capacity of the tires than the job needed to be done.

The trailer industry being a very low volume for units produced have installed less expensive parts to keep or gain market share. Hence tires that were installed that just met the designed max. load. The buying public is starting to make changes in that thought process. (With money of course)

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Old 10-15-2018, 06:42 AM   #4
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Thank you Action, Digging in more about the subject. Seems the wheels upgraded to 16" and Michelins appear to be a norm atm.
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Old 10-15-2018, 06:55 AM   #5
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KBAR - tons of threads on this for fun in your “spare” time (see what I did there? [emoji3]).

One guy’s summary - worth everything you’re paying for it is:

- not a lot of confidence in GYMs (Goodyear Marathon ST tires made in China)

- true LT tires are very hard to find in 15” so both at the factory on some models and as an aftermarket upgrade you’ll see 16” wheels and LT tires (usually Michelin)

- depending on load, some (myself included) are comfortable using the 15” P Michelin on our trailers - typically a dual axle - a single usually won’t provide enough load capacity especially as you have to de-rate the tires’ capacity by about 10% for that application

- a new GYE (Goodyear Endurance) ST tire came out a while back. This is made in America, can be E-rated for load and comes in a 15”. So far, they don’t seem to be getting the kind of sketchy quality reports of the GYMs and those are certainly an ST option to consider. My Michelins are going to be 5 years old at the start of next season and unless they start making a 15” LT tire, I’m seriously considering swapping to the GYEs in the spring.

There’s tons of info to dig through in these files - like I said - this is just my understanding. I’m not a tire engineer - take it with a salt lick [emoji3]
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Old 10-15-2018, 07:40 AM   #6
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Welcome Aboard!! 👍

We,(I), have always used ST, (currently GYE's), since '87, with no failures. One curb rash poof, my fault. BUT see my signature...😂

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Old 10-15-2018, 08:06 AM   #7
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As I understand the tire threads, people decide they want Michelin tires on their Airstream. Michelin doesn't really make trailer tires but they make nice light truck tires. The problem is they're not available in 15" rims. (although they may have a few.)
So people buy 16" rims and mount up Michelin LT tires and swear by them.

I must say, so far, knock on wood, that my GoodYear Endurance have been very good. I use a tire pressure monitor and they just keep rolling. Of course, there's no guarantee that I won't pick up a nail, but that could happen with any tire.
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Old 10-15-2018, 09:08 AM   #8
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Goodyear no longer makes the Marathon. It has been replaced by the Endurance, which is made in the USA to higher standards and specs. I'm using the Endurance and, so far they have been great.

Nokian makes a 15 inch LT tire which specs out nicely for those who want a 15 inch option.

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Old 10-15-2018, 09:22 AM   #9
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Greetings from the Florida Panhandle

Here is my trailer tire story. It is a little long, so please bear with me

We started Airstreaming about 13 years ago with a brand new Safari 25FB. It came with the standard 15" Goodyear Marathon ST tires. We almost immediately became avid Airstreamers and started traveling extensively in our new Aistream. After about 12,000 on the Airstream, we suffered a catastrophic tire failure (blow out) on the highway. The trailer suffered only very minor body damage in this incident. We put the spare tire on and continued to a town where we could replace the bad tire. We continued our journey and about 3,000 miles later, another Marathon blew. We again stopped and got another new Marathon tire. Two days later we had a third blowout. This time we stopped at a truck tire dealer in Rawlins, Wyoming. The tire dealer recommended going to Maxxis ST tires, telling us that the Marathons were junk.

Since I did not need much convincing that the Marathon were junk tires, I replaced all five tires on the Airstream with Maxxis 10 ply ST tires. The Maxxis did much better than the Goodyears. We got about 28,000 miles from the Maxxis without any failures. We started getting tread separation on multiple tires. We replaced these with another set of Maxxis ST's. These only lasted about 10,000 miles before tread separations began.

At that point, I was totally fed up with ST tires. I decided to get a set of 16" wheels and Michelin LT tires. We towed this Airstream another 64,000 miles on this set of Michelins without a sigle tite issue.

In October of 2014, we purchased a new 2015 Flying Cloud 25FB. Based upon our prior tire experience, we immediately replaced the OEM 15" Marathons with a set of 16" Michelins. This time it did not cost me a fortune. The 5 new 16" wheels and tires cost me $1,600. I was able to sell the brand new 15" wheels and tires for $600. This kept the cost of the upgrade to $1,000.

Our 2015 Airstream now has 47,600 miles on her without a single tire issue. We are now up to a total 108,000 miles of Airstream towing on Michelin LT tires without a single tire issue.

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Old 10-15-2018, 02:12 PM   #10
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I don't agree that Truck Tires necessarily have greater Load capacity
I had to replace one with an LT tire ( only thing available). 150lbs less load than my Chinese STs and it runs at 44 psi. Will make a good spare

I am replacing the Chinese STs with Carlisle load range C with 10 ply side wall rating. Really like the construction of this tire and it has great ratings from several dealers I have contacted about a purchase. It also has a higher speed rating. Certainly the Micheline is a best choice! I won't wear out a tire in six years so don't need the performance or the tread life.

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Old 10-15-2018, 03:18 PM   #11
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I don't agree that Truck Tires necessarily have greater Load capacity

I am replacing the Chinese STs with Carlisle load range C with 10 ply side wall rating.

JCW
LT tires (Or light Truck Tire) won't necessarily carry more weight. However there are a lot more choices for LT tires that are wider or taller or have a higher load rating (C, D or E) than a ST tire. Which may make it easier to obtain an LT tire at a tire store. Especially at a smaller tire store that does not carry a lot of inventory.

IF for a given tire size the ST choices stop at a load range D and the same size could be had in an LT with a load rating of E, well the LT has greater capacity because of the load rating not because a LT will carry more than a ST. And as stated above, changing to a larger rim size (16" versus 15") steps up the choices and will step up the load capacity too. Face it a bigger rim and bigger tire has the possibility of carrying more weight if inflated to do so.

The Chinese thing, in my opinion the Chinese will make anything you want them to make. I am pretty sure they don't care if the product is made of paper or made of titanium reinforced rubber. You make the specs and they will build it. However profit margin for less expensive products is smaller, making low labor a way to lower costs and get more market share. Higher priced products are less sensitive to higher costs. So a high end tire can be made where labor costs are higher because the market will pay the higher price. If you don't like tires that are made in China, blame the company with the logo on the side wall. They designed the tire, likely they specify how to build the tire and they are certainly responsible for the tire warranty. Not China. I don't buy the thought process of tires (or anything else) made in China is junk. The Chinese factories are told what to make. If you want them to make "junk" they don't care. They will make anything you want, including junk.

Lastly my opinion about Michelin. This company has a following that is huge. They build a good product and there are many that have a good experience with their tires. Their tires are not bullet proof as those tires fail too. And have been recalled on occasion. And at least in some sizes they are priced competitively. I replaced the factory 18s on my SUV with Michelins. Not because I am that much of a fan. It is just that they were the best priced in a better tire quality for the service I wanted. I would have taken most any other brand. It is now the volume that Michelin does that is driving their tires prices. Well at least for the size and use for my SUV.

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Old 10-15-2018, 07:46 PM   #12
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So these wheels:

https://www.amazon.com/Sendel-T03-66...dal+t03-66655t


And these tires:

https://tires.tirerack.com/tires/225%2075%2016%20E

https://www.discounttire.com/buy-tir...x-m-s2/p/14048

One other tid-bit: 6 or 8 lug, really don't wish to change hubs
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Old 10-16-2018, 12:08 AM   #13
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Personally, I don't like the idea of up-sizing trailer wheels and tires. I want the best, most compliant ride possible for my trailer. Especially for the boondocking I do as well. But for all the terrible roads out there. The tire is an integral part of a good suspension.

There was a time when all the available 15" tires were suspect.

Today is different. You'll find many great ST and LT tires from Michelin's, Nokians, Falken, etc. that'll do the job with enough load capacity. Once can even upsize the tire to a larger aspect ratio to increase sidewall like I have with a 235/75/15 (stock was 225/75/15 for my 27FB).

I refuse to acknowledge G**dy--r as an option. Read below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Action View Post
The Chinese thing, in my opinion the Chinese will make anything you want them to make. I am pretty sure they don't care if the product is made of paper or made of titanium reinforced rubber. You make the specs and they will build it. However profit margin for less expensive products is smaller, making low labor a way to lower costs and get more market share. Higher priced products are less sensitive to higher costs. So a high end tire can be made where labor costs are higher because the market will pay the higher price. If you don't like tires that are made in China, blame the company with the logo on the side wall. They designed the tire, likely they specify how to build the tire and they are certainly responsible for the tire warranty. Not China. I don't buy the thought process of tires (or anything else) made in China is junk. The Chinese factories are told what to make. If you want them to make "junk" they don't care. They will make anything you want, including junk.
Nicely said. Greed knows no boundaries. It was and has always been the Goodyear executives that decided their Marathon tires were good enough to plague the market. This was not just their Marathon line, but others including class A tires. I for one won't support the company any longer.
https://jalopnik.com/goodyear-knew-o...-20-1824997252
https://www.classaction.org/goodyear...lowout-lawsuit
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Old 10-16-2018, 06:37 AM   #14
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^^^^^^^ I will go there to a point. The lower quality blame also rests in part on the trailer manufacturer who specifies lowest cost tire to support XXXX pound load. If we buy X number of tires how cheap can we get them per unit? The tire manufacture may come back and say we can build that for you IF the tire pressure is always maxxed out. If the pressure falls 5 pounds below max the load YOU specified will NOT be supported and our tire will fail. The best example may be Walmart. Make negative comments about Walmart all you want, however there is a market for what Walmart sells. If there wasn't Walmart wouldn't sell it. Walmart has beaten all of it's competition with price. And it isn't because they pay their employees or vendors big bucks.

Ultimately the consumer has the hammer with the vote of the dollar. Take the dollars and vote for different brand of trailer (or tire) the consumer has the attention of the manufacturer. The manufacturer has to change or die. In this case the message got to the trailer manufacturers to upgrade the tires. And the trailer manufacturer sent that same message to GY. GY changed however that change was slow in coming. The other way a manufacturer changes is via warranty claims. If a trailer manufacturer pays for "failed" tires and the related damage the change to a different (more expensive) tire may be offset by less claims experience.

Interesting about Airstream and Michelin. (And this is speculation on my part) Michelin does not make a trailer tire. Airstreams sell trailers. I would think that there is some liability on Airstream's part by installing Michelin tires on trailers during the manufacturing process. (A vehicle the tire was NOT designed to be installed on) In the "what if" game, I think Airstream installs Michelin tires on new Airstream trailers via the service department at Airstream, not during the manufacturing process. And I would bet the service department and the manufacturing are two separate companies owned by a parent. At the service department the consumer is driving he order. Should something adverse happen the service department can state we were given an order and followed it. Our only liability is to the work done not the material used in the job. Whereas during the manufacturing process the company is providing a warranty for the material and the labor.

Just my thoughts.

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Old 10-16-2018, 07:09 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCWDCW View Post
I don't agree that Truck Tires necessarily have greater Load capacity
I had to replace one with an LT tire ( only thing available). 150lbs less load than my Chinese STs and it runs at 44 psi. Will make a good spare. …...
That wasn't an LT tire. That was a P type tire (The 44 psi was the clue!)

And I think a word about the way load carrying capacity is determine is in order.

There are formulae the tire standardizing organizations use to calculate the load carrying capacity. It varies by tire type.

The formula for ST tires is about 20% higher than for the same size LT tire - but the ST tire has a speed restriction the LT tire does not.
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Old 10-16-2018, 07:23 AM   #16
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I recommend everyone to search the Internet. I wanted to find out when the FIRST tires specifically made for trailer use were made.

What I discovered is the Goodyear publicity train doing a massive Public Relations campaign. Their PR is found to be supported by a number of other Trailer Tire supporters of Goodyear.

Upon an internet search, Goodyear appears to be the one and only trailer tire made.

I have had no problems with 16" wheels, nor the LTX Michelin 16" E Rated tires. From speeds of 1mph to 80mph. On the Interstates and Off the Paved Roads.

Why would Goodyear after decades of using their Marathons, redesign their tires and take manufacturing back to the USA? If these tires were so great in the past, why make changes?

Lipstick or actually an improved, reliable new trailer tire? I hope so.

If you look at the tires used on other brands of Trailers sitting new on the lot, many I have never heard of. The sources would have to be tracked from what information is available.

My Michelin tires have provided excellent results on all of my vehicles and my Airstream that had 15" Goodyears. and immediately upgraded to 16"

No, I do not own any tire manufacturer's stock.

Made in the USA Goodyear Endurance Tires for trailers...? Let others test them. Four years of Michelin LTX 16" tires have performed as I expected. Perfectly. Those who use them... let them be the judge. Not those who follow the Public Relations of Goodyear, who push towards 'an improved' version of their previous Marathons.

As I have said before, I had terrible results with our 23 foot Safari with 14" Marathon C Rated Tires. Should I have trusted the 15" Marathons? Not if MY life depended on them. You do what you are comfortable doing. It is your choice, not anyone posting on this Thread. Advice can be a valuable source of information. Often, ignored.
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Old 10-16-2018, 07:35 AM   #17
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The 15 inch Endurance is Load rated E and speed rated to 85.

I know it feels like it tows better than the Marathons they replaced.

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Old 10-16-2018, 09:59 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Ray Eklund View Post
Upon an internet search, Goodyear appears to be the one and only trailer tire made.

The ST tire market isn't exactly high sales volume. Why sell a tire that doesn't have much of a market? As an example Michelin doesn't want that market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Eklund View Post
Why would Goodyear after decades of using their Marathons, redesign their tires and take manufacturing back to the USA? If these tires were so great in the past, why make changes?
I don't think anyone would say they were a great. Not even Goodyear. Marathons are a low cost answer to the trailer tire question. The buying public tends to embrace low cost.


Quote:
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If you look at the tires used on other brands of Trailers sitting new on the lot, many I have never heard of. The sources would have to be tracked from what information is available.
I am sure that those never "heard of" brands are used by trailer manufacturers because of cost. And for no other reason. I had a set on a heavy boat trailer. After one failed within a year of buying the trailer I looked at the load capacity. The towed load weighed in at 7400 pounds dry. The tires were rated to carry 7600 pounds fully inflated. Those no name brand tires had a very short service life.

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Old 10-16-2018, 10:58 AM   #19
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Action - in #11 and #14 - good stuff - and a few reactions.

Isn’t a big part of the manufacturing location issue related to regulatory conditions? Meaning - companies want to manufacture at lowest cost - China is “ideal” to them as labor is cheaper and regulations are MUCH fewer and looser than in the US (if you don’t have to pay union wages and no one’s looking at the number of illnesses or deaths in the tire manufacturing process, that’s cheaper too). There’s likely an ideal “Goldilocks” regulation zone - US probably has too many, China probably has too few - but that’s one thing that must in some way contribute to perceived differences in quality.

We haven’t fully addressed user error/abuse either. The speed limits on GYMs are 65. Anyone ever done 66+ on theirs? PSI is 65. Anyone run at 55PSI or less either for comfort or for lack of checking? Load rates are 2500#/tire. Anyone fail to measure each tire’s fully loaded weight?

I wonder if the newer GYEs are a “loss leader” to some extent. For starters, you can get an E load rating in a 15” with plenty of capacity even for “overloading” and a stamped higher speed limit. So those issues alone could cover a lot of sins. Maybe they make them in the US for a few years at a loss to gain market share and then start having those made in China a few years down the road to buy back their margins? Wouldn’t surprise me. [emoji20]

For now however - I’m seriously thinking of installing a set of them in the spring.

As to the service vs. manufacturing side of AS - remember, there are 16” Michelins on some models right out of production. So I’m not sure a difference in operating companies would matter much. And the service group offers (proactively, not waiting for customers to demand) conversions to 16” Michelins as an upgrade. That often quoted DOT regulation (divide tire capacity by 1.1 to determine load when used on a trailer) was, I always thought, aimed at manufacturers who might choose to do what AS has done. Michelin may not recommend it (to consumers, perhaps?) but a manufacturer could certainly decide to do that for their application, so long as they de-rated the capacity and used that in their calculations for load range. At least - it seems that way to me. I’m wide open to correction if I’m missing something.
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Old 10-16-2018, 10:59 AM   #20
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"The formula for ST tires is about 20% higher than for the same size LT tire.."

Sorta what I thought all along. The rating systems are not the same.
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