Tread Separation on Michelin LTX225/75R16(E) M+S2

[xrvr]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

These are not LTs, as designated by the "p". They are passenger tires.

Agree, if it has a p its passenger tire no matter what the description says. It may have the load range modified but it's still a p tire. In my opinion

[Troutboy]

Well said aftermath, YMMV, is very relevant here. My GYMs don't leak air every other day, they are new, and young, but I watch them close like the michelins on my vehicles. So far so good, time will tell.

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

These are not LTs, as designated by the "p". They are passenger tires.

Those tires are Extra Load, load range C, with maximum inflation to 50PSI.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

These are not LTs, as designated by the "p". They are passenger tires.

Whatever you say dude. Than Ford is installing passenger tires on their pickups. In which case the last thing I am going to worry about is having them on my AS since those tires are pulling and stopping the whole train.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

Whatever you say dude. Than Ford is installing passenger tires on their pickups. In which case the last thing I am going to worry about is having them on my AS since those tires are pulling and stopping the whole train.

It's not what I say...it is what it is. LTs are not put on half ton PU, as a general rule. GM does have a fleet only option for LTs on 1500 series work trucks...not for load carrying capability, but rather, for heavy gravel road usage for a few accounts. LT tread compound seems to tolerate extensive gravel usage with minimal "chunking", unlike passenger tires.

All that said, "P" truck/SUV tires have higher load capacities than car "P" tires, generally. All this discussion should be about ratings, more than P/LT discussion alone. As stated above, PU "P" tires have more than enough load capacity for the truck placard max load numbers.

However, there are other "P" considerations for trailer use. Search on Capriracer's postings for industry expert advice.

[switz]

This Federal Regulation spells out the procedure for using these 15" Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL tires on a trailer.

*******************************************
49 CFR 571.110

Tire selection and rims and motor home/recreation vehicle trailer load carrying capacity information for motor vehicles with a GVWR of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) or less.

S4.2.2.1

Except as provided in S4.2.2.2, the sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle shall not be less than the GAWR of the axle system as specified on the vehicle's certification label required by 49 CFR part 567. If the certification label shows more than one GAWR for the axle system, the sum shall be not less than the GAWR corresponding to the size designation of the tires fitted to the axle.

S4.2.2.2

When passenger car tires are installed on an MPV, truck, bus, or trailer, each tire's load rating is reduced by dividing it by 1.10 before determining, under S4.2.2.1, the sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle.

S4.2.2.3

(a) For vehicles, except trailers with no designated seating positions, equipped with passenger car tires, the vehicle normal load on the tire shall be no greater than 94 percent of the derated load rating at the vehicle manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressure for that tire.

(b) For vehicles, except trailers with no designated seating positions, equipped with LT tires, the vehicle normal load on the tire shall be no greater than 94 percent of the load rating at the vehicle manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressure for that tire.

************************************************** *

Thus my 15" Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL tires with a sidewall rating of 2,183 pounds @ 50 psi are derated to 1,985 pounds payload for trailer use.

The numbers for our 2015 23D International Serenity loaded for camping are:

Camping Ready 23D my scales 9 May 2016

Tongue………928
Front….1,280……1,246 - total front axle 2,526
Rear…..1,376……1,233 - total rear axle 2,609
Total Axles………5,135
Total Trailer….6,063

Each of my 15" Michelin tires are derated to 1,985 pounds load capacity so there is still a 31% load margin for the heaviest loaded tire. They still work for the typical 25FB model as well.

We run 44 psi which is still the maximum load point for the tire. One gets a softer ride and larger tire foot print for braking as compared to the stock GYM ST tires.

For comparison, the stock 14" GYM ST215/75R14C tires were rated 1,870 pounds @ 50 psi for the 23D models up to 2017 when Airstream upgraded the 23D trailer models to the 15" GYM ST tires since the 14" tires are going the way of the Dodo bird.

[Action]

LTX is a marketing name used by Michelin. In general it is a heavier duty P designated tire. And still it is a P designated tire versus a LT designated tire.

>>>>>>>>>>Action

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by Action

LTX is a marketing name used by Michelin. In general it is a heavier duty P designated tire. And still it is a P designated tire versus a LT designated tire.

>>>>>>>>>>Action

Ah ..... Mmmmmm ...... Not exactly.

LTX is a designation that Michelin uses to identify tires designed for light trucks, vans, SUV's, and Crossovers - AND - that designation comes in whatever is appropriate for the line.

For example, a Michelin LTX M/S2 comes in both P type and LT type, where a Defender LTX is only available in a P type (a mix of Euro metric and P metric).

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

Whatever you say dude. Than Ford is installing passenger tires on their pickups. In which case the last thing I am going to worry about is having them on my AS since those tires are pulling and stopping the whole train.

Look at the weight ratings...and my Lt's use 80 lbs of air...the 50 lbs of air tires are passenger car tires... 1/2 ton pickups...3/4 ton pickups are LT. 80 lbs air...my as LT tires are LT 225/75/16 load range E at 80 lbs of air,

[switz]

If the ½ ton pickup came with "P" series tires, I wonder if the suspension components were designed for that softer marshmallow ride? Then if one installs "LT" series tires with higher tire pressures an stiffer sidewalls, would there be handling problems or bottoming problems due to the "soft tuned" suspension?

[rodsterinfl]

I just returned from a thousand mile trip with my same tires at 60psi which is way over the chart psi rating for the load/weight. I put it that high because of discussions on here about "run them to the max for sheer and turning needs" but I must say that TWICE when I stopped and got in the trailer en route, my dishes were all over the floor and other things normally not impacted by travel were on the floor. The tvs on travel straps were swung all the way out, many other things messed up. It was obviously riding rough. Not to say absolutely that this issue was PSI related but I still question running tires at their maxiumum PSI rating ignoring weight psi charts. I have never done that on any vehicle though there is so much controversy on trailer tires and doing so.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by switz

If the ½ ton pickup came with "P" series tires, I wonder if the suspension components were designed for that softer marshmallow ride? Then if one installs "LT" series tires with higher tire pressures an stiffer sidewalls, would there be handling problems or bottoming problems due to the "soft tuned" suspension?

Yes, mfrs do "tune" the suspension system and the tire's together (that's part of what the TPC spec is about ), but the tuning is not so dramatic as you question in the latter part of your question.

[glcmranger]

After reading tons of michelin tire threads here on the forum, I'm curious why no one has reviewed/commented on the Michelin XPS Rib tires. It is E Rated/10 ply tire used for commercial use and heavy RV rigs. The downside not good on ice/snow since the rubber compound is harder. It far exceeds the axle load ratings. Yes, more expensive but you have peace of mind from blowouts.....Comments?

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by glcmranger

After reading tons of michelin tire threads here on the forum, I'm curious why no one has reviewed/commented on the Michelin XPS Rib tires. It is E Rated/10 ply tire used for commercial use and heavy RV rigs. The downside not good on ice/snow since the rubber compound is harder. It far exceeds the axle load ratings. Yes, more expensive but you have peace of mind from blowouts.....Comments?

There are some RIB users here and they have posted. Not many...but they report great success.

[blkmagikca]

Claim form with supporting documentation was mailed to Michelin yesterday. Their letter with the form said that their response could take up to 60 days.

[blkmagikca]

Originally Posted by rodsterinfl

I just returned from a thousand mile trip with my same tires at 60psi which is way over the chart psi rating for the load/weight. I put it that high because of discussions on here about "run them to the max for sheer and turning needs" but I must say that TWICE when I stopped and got in the trailer en route, my dishes were all over the floor and other things normally not impacted by travel were on the floor. The tvs on travel straps were swung all the way out, many other things messed up. It was obviously riding rough. Not to say absolutely that this issue was PSI related but I still question running tires at their maxiumum PSI rating ignoring weight psi charts. I have never done that on any vehicle though there is so much controversy on trailer tires and doing so.

We have Centramatics on all the wheels of the AS & TV. This cuts down vibration from out-of-balanced wheels, as it dynamically balances the entire assembly - tire, rim, hub, brake. However, a good portion of the Interstate system, especially driving through Illinois & Indiana, is in bad shape and, at 60 mph, stuff gets tossed around in the AS.

[CruizinDux]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

There are some RIB users here and they have posted. Not many...but they report great success.

I searched ribs and Phoenix. Here are a couple of Rib threads with excellent analysis provided by Phoenix.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...bs-163671.html


http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...ml#post1920377

the term bulletproof is used fairly often re ribs.

bob

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by blkmagikca

Claim form with supporting documentation was mailed to Michelin yesterday. Their letter with the form said that their response could take up to 60 days.

Thanks for the update, it will be interesting to see what Michelin says.

[OTRA15]

Thanks for the links Bob.

I seem to recall the Michelin RIB tires as being mainly a summer tire, with some admonitions about using them in winter. Something about the rubber compound not doing well at freezing or colder temps.

Not sure if this applies to all RIB tires, or just these:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...eModel=XPS+Rib

"Highway Rib Summer light truck tires are for drivers who want a combination of heavy-duty load capacity, even wear and low noise along with traction on dry and wet roads. Sometimes used as Original Equipment (O.E.) on medium and heavy-duty 2WD trucks, vans and pickups, Highway Rib Summer tires are not intended to be driven in near-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice."
[end quote]

See also:
http://www.michelinman.com/US/en/tir.../xps-rib.html#
http://www.michelinrvtires.com/tires...!/info/xps-rib
https://www.google.com/search?q=mich...utf-8&oe=utf-8

And Phoenix does not discuss this summer aspect of (some?) RIBS in the threads which Bob posted.

FYI and FWIW -- no time to debate this.

Cheers,

Peter

[tjdonahoe]

No ribs for me, I don't need a heavy tire on my as, the 225/75/16 E with 72 lbs of air is plenty tire for my 31' classic, the stiff side wall with steel cord rib tire ,I believe would be detrimental to the as. My weights are way under a large motor home...