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Old 04-20-2017, 11:28 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
Thanks for the links Bob.

I seem to recall the Michelin RIB tires as being mainly a summer tire, with some admonitions about using them in winter. Something about the rubber compound not doing well at freezing or colder temps.

Not sure if this applies to all RIB tires, or just these:

.....

And Phoenix does not discuss this summer aspect of (some?) RIBS in the threads which Bob posted.

FYI and FWIW -- no time to debate this.

Cheers,

Peter
Peter I looked and searched but it seems that Phoenix posted comment re his winter driving experience with Ribs. Maybe he'll see this and chime in.


here ya go. http://www.airforums.com/forums/f542...127845-99.html

post 1385...top link.

bob
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Old 04-21-2017, 04:22 AM   #82
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Re: Towing 19' Bambi on Snow & Ice with Michelin XPS Rib Summer Tires

We are on our second set of Michelin XPS Ribs; and we run them at 80 psi, because the larger single-axle Bambi's have the heaviest per-tire load of all Airstream travel trailers. (Even though the longer models may weigh more, most have multiple axles and more tires to distribute the load.)

During a recent weighing, our 2005 19' Bambi weighed 4,280 pounds on the single axle; and I acknowledge that we are about 300 pounds overweight.

For those interested in our towing experience in a Colorado blizzard, see link below:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f42/...ml#post1358880
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Old 04-21-2017, 05:17 AM   #83
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Thanks Phoenix and Bob for the replies. Here is a full quote from the referenced winter experience.

Phoenix, glad your Ribs apparently helped you out tread-wise, but could you comment on the quote from Tire Rack in Post #79 about these being intended as summer tires? What about the compound losing its grip on dry pavement in really cold temps? Isn't that a concern?

Thanks,

Peter


[click on arrow in quote to go to that thread]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
In our near accident, we were driving in blizzard, white-out conditions near Monument Hill, between Colorado Springs and Denver. When we left the Springs headed north, we were driving about 35 mph, and the traffic was heavy since it was the evening rush hour.

As we topped Monument Hill, I noticed that the last of cars that had passed us were disappearing into the blowing snow and darkness ahead; and there was only one track in the snow where everyone was driving, even though our side of the divided highway was three-lanes wide with a big shoulder. In actuality, we could barely see the roadway at all, and we were just driving in two black tracks on a field of white and trying to stay between the reflectors (which we could barely see) that marked the left and right sides of the road.

I thought it was odd that all of the traffic had disappeared, and there were absolutely no cars passing or ahead of us. Then, a quick glance in the mirrors showed a string of lights all the way back to the Springs! The snow was so bad that everyone that wanted to go faster than 35 mph had already passed us, and the rest of the pack decided to stay behind the fool with the Airstream. I think they figured that evidently I could see ahead (which I couldn't); and if we managed to stay on the road, it was safer to just stay behind us. Besides, they'd get a little warning of ice ahead when they saw our lights spinning off into the trees.

Anyway, a pickup truck decided to make a run for it and tried passing us on the right. I was a little irritated that he was coming up on the right side, but I figured he was doing that because there were two lanes (the right lane and the shoulder) on the right, and only one on the left.

THEN, a sedan came barrelling up the entrance ramp directly into the side of the pickup. When the lady in the sedan saw the long line of lights behind us, she decided to pass the whole pack before she got stuck behind us, too.

So now, we are three abreast, our Tundra and Bambi somewhere in the middle of the road, I'm guessing in the number two lane, the pickup that's trying to pass us on the right, and the dumb lady in the sedan trying to pass both of us before the on-ramp ends.

As the on-ramp merged onto the main road, this lady pulled across the front of the pickup AND us; and right after she passed us, she lost control and started skidding sideways across our bow at 35 mph, headed for the median. The pickup was gaining and was a few feet ahead of us, enough so I could see his brake lights as he went spinning off the shoulder into the ditch. And, the lady slid past us sideways and whacked into the median barrier.

That's when I got to test the anti-lock brakes on our Tundra, our Prodigy brake controller and the Michelin XPS Rib summer highway tread tires on packed snow over ice.

I stomped on the brakes and our whole rig slowed slightly. The Tundra tires did not lock up, but we weren't stopping very fast. However, we slowed enough to avoid hitting the lady broadside. (By the way, I know it was a lady, because I got a good look at her face through her side window, as she slipped across our bow sideways, less than a car length ahead of us on the way toward the median.)

As soon as she cleared the front of our Tundra, I let off the brakes; because I was afraid that our Bambi brakes would lock, and the trailer would come around the side of us causing us to spin out. As it turned out, the Bambi stayed behind us in a straight line, and I was able to maintain steering control the whole time. It was luck and timing that prevented us from plowing into the lady, but we didn't skid or lose control. In fact, other than being a really close call, this near accident was mostly a non-event, at least for us.

I thought about stopping to make sure that the lady and the pickup driver were OK, but when we looked in the rear view mirrors, all we could see were headlights spinning around and spreading out all over the highway. So, I figured there really wasn't anything we could do; so we continued on into the blowing snow and darkness, now driving alone, as no cars made it past all the excitement.

I suppose the people farther back may have thought that we caused this pile up; but those up front who actually saw what happened, knew that we were just observers and along for the ride.

Anyway, we never intentionally drive in these conditions. However, the weather can change really fast near, or in, the mountains; and I now know if there's no place to stop, our rig can handle a little snow and ice, if it isn't too deep. It will just be slow going with lots of fools on the road.

By the way, for those wondering, our 2008 Tundra CrewMax has two-wheel-drive; and we have Michelin LTX M/S2 light truck tires on it. Also, we do NOT have a load distribution/anti-sway hitch.
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Old 04-21-2017, 05:24 AM   #84
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The Ribs carry almost the exact specs of the E rated LTX with the addition of a steel sidewall enhancement versus threads and the summer-only season mention- I believe.

Switz, I am an example of your 1/2 ton post. I had a 2009 F150 with D rated tires. When I replaced them, I got E rated Michelin of the same size- the same ones that I got for the trailer. Two things happened.

I ended up having to get a different hitch as my original one with the old truck tires caused heavy sway with the new tires- strange but true.

The truck rode MUCH rougher and was more susceptible to road jarring and noise. It was immediately noticeable.

The latter reason was why I referred to the Michelin PSI Load chart for the tires and set the PSI on the trailer tires to the chart spec initially against what posters were saying about "run em at 80 PSI for load and less shear effect". Over the past few years I pumped them up higher than chart considering the talk SPLITTING the difference at around 60 PSI. As I shared, during the last trip, the jarring caused major turmoil in the trailer as mentioned. I do not remember offhand but I believe the tire's weight rating @80 PSI is 2680, so an axle with two would be 5360# at max pressure with no margin.
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Old 04-21-2017, 05:42 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
Thanks Phoenix and Bob for the replies. Here is a full quote from the referenced winter experience.

Phoenix, glad your Ribs apparently helped you out tread-wise, but could you comment on the quote from Tire Rack in Post #79 about these being intended as summer tires? What about the compound losing its grip on dry pavement in really cold temps? Isn't that a concern?

Thanks,

Peter

It could be they mean its not an all season tire so don't use it as one.
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Old 04-21-2017, 01:51 PM   #86
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Re: Differences between "Rib" (summer) & "M/S" (all season) tires

Below is a link to a previous post explaining the difference between three Michelin tire models. The description for the LTX MS/2 probably still applies to the new Defender tire.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...ml#post1485434

In the 50,000 miles on our first set of XPS Ribs, about 1/3 of those miles was in near- or sub-freezing weather on dry or rain-soaked improved roads. Only a few hundred miles was on ice and snow; as we usually sat those days out, waiting for the roads to clear. The other 2/3's of those miles was in warm weather, where the Ribs excel.

If we lived in snow country, I would NOT install XPS Ribs on a vehicle's drive wheels. However, for us, TOWING with Ribs on our Bambi has not presented any traction problems in cold weather (even on snow, as described above). That said, if we towed extensively on snow-packed/icy highways, or off-road, I would definitely consider a different tire.
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Old 04-21-2017, 02:13 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
There are some RIB users here and they have posted. Not many...but they report great success.
Re; piece of mind from blow outs.
Over fiftyseven years of driving all kinds of cars, trucks, trailers with all makes of tires I experienced exactly 1 thread separation/blow out. That was three years ago on our 30' International a GYM ST tire.
I have never ever worried about it prior to that and since because I don't intend to ever run ST tires again.
As an aside fyi, years ago we used to retread partially worn ST tires on our semi dumps to save money. We would run the a set for half their life and than had them rethreaded to extend its use. It never worked out that way because invariably the retread would separate from the casing long before it would wear out. Needless to say we gave up the practice and switched to using new Michelin and or Bridgestone tires.
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Old 04-21-2017, 02:33 PM   #88
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Thanks for the clarification!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
Below is a link to a previous post explaining the difference between three Michelin tire models. The description for the LTX MS/2 probably still applies to the new Defender tire.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...ml#post1485434

In the 50,000 miles on our first set of XPS Ribs, about 1/3 of those miles was in near- or sub-freezing weather on dry or rain-soaked improved roads. Only a few hundred miles was on ice and snow; as we usually sat those days out, waiting for the roads to clear. The other 2/3's of those miles was in warm weather, where the Ribs excel.

If we lived in snow country, I would NOT install XPS Ribs on a vehicle's drive wheels. However, for us, TOWING with Ribs on our Bambi has not presented any traction problems in cold weather (even on snow, as described above). That said, if we towed extensively on snow-packed/icy highways, or off-road, I would definitely consider a different tire.
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Old 04-21-2017, 09:23 PM   #89
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Tread Separation on Michelin LTX225/75R16(E) M+S2

I am with you OTRA15.Unless your Airstream is self powered traction is not an issue the same with cold weather rating.People on this forum crack me up!Lol
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Old 04-23-2017, 12:52 PM   #90
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I don't need tires for my new FC, and I'm a little late to this discussion, but I've read this thread with interest. The Michelin Ribs look like they might be a good alternative to the GYM's but one question I'd have about them is their weight. According to the Tire Rack, a Michelin XPS Rib in size 225/75/16 weighs 49 lbs. By comparison, a GYM in size 225/75/15 weighs 29 lbs. Add the difference in weight between a 15" and 16" wheel and you're probably looking at a delta of almost 25 pounds.

More importantly, that's 25 additional lbs. of unsprung weight at each wheel. On a car, that much increased unsprung weight would have a major negative effect on ride and handling. I realize that trailer suspension design and handling offer different challenges than those with an automobile but it's such a significant weight difference that it at least raises some questions.
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Old 04-23-2017, 01:12 PM   #91
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Hmmmm... Weight.. That's a curious point, while I understand that it would all be included in the scale weight and would matter for ship or flight travel. If said weight is on the front side of the suspension, then does it really count the same? Is it a chicken crossing the road thing?
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Old 04-23-2017, 01:48 PM   #92
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Putting the question of the effect of an extra 100lbs of wheel and tire on payload aside for a moment (not to say that's not also an interesting consideration), my concern would be whether the ride and handling of the trailer would be affected by 40-50% of additional unsprung weight at each wheel. A similar percentage of unsprung weight increase would ruin the handling of my Porsche. Comparing apples to cucumbers, I know, but one has to wonder if that much added weight is within the engineered parameters of a particular trailer's suspension design. I don't know much (well, anything really) about trailer suspensions, just sayin'....
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Old 05-03-2017, 01:08 PM   #93
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Michelin covers the cost of repair & tire replacement

I am pleased to be able to report that Michelin has written to me and is covering the claim for the damages to the AS and the tire replacement.



It is comforting to know that Michelin stands behind their product.
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Old 05-03-2017, 02:23 PM   #94
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Good news, thanks for the follow up!
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Old 05-03-2017, 03:13 PM   #95
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Sorry for your issue but many thanks for the info and follow up.

I'll be sticking with Michelin for future tire purchases.
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Old 05-04-2017, 06:12 AM   #96
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Kudos to Michelin
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Old 05-04-2017, 07:17 AM   #97
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The XPS rib is a great heavy duty tire that can withstand horrific abuse. I have seen them run 800 pounds over load capacity. However they are far too stiff and heavy for an Airstream. The unsprung weight does matter.
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Old 05-04-2017, 09:58 AM   #98
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I am pleased to be able to report that Michelin has written to me and is covering the claim for the damages to the AS and the tire replacement.



It is comforting to know that Michelin stands behind their product.
Maybe this will knock the wind out of these folks that said that Michelin won't stand behind their tires on a trailer.......
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Old 05-04-2017, 10:10 AM   #99
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They say they found no evidence of misapplication or misuse. Putting those tires on a trailer is by definition misapplication or misuse. I'm not exactly sure what that letter means. Did they know they were put on a trailer? If so, the person who wrote the letter chose to ignore corporate policy. I would not hang my hat on that.
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Old 05-04-2017, 01:14 PM   #100
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Having worked as a representative for a fortune 500 company that did manufacture vehicles, I would suggest this event was not policy or warranty driven decision.

Rather goodwill driven decision. For that kind of decision corporate policy or rules get overruled by creating good will with the end users to promote future business. A decision I believe was money well spent.

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