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Old 07-06-2006, 03:55 PM   #183
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I've got no problem with them contracting out the work. Although I'm not sure that Carlisle actually does this (anymore). The issue is what sort of consistancy is there in what's marketed as a Carlisle Radial Trail tire? Are the ones being sold today made to the same design as ones last year, three years ago, five years ago? The failure reports don't mean anything if they're not even the same tire. Today's Carlisle tire might be completely different, for better or worse than the ones people are reporting on. FWIW when I bring up pictures of the Titan and Carlisle tires they have a completely different tread pattern. But then since you can't go look at the tires in person (special order) I don't know that either one is representative of what you'll actually get.

As far as forum stories and other internet "reports" it's difficult to know what to believe. For one thing you have to know the number of tires in service to have any hope of determining if one brand is more or less prone to failure. You also have to wonder how many of the reports are duplicates of the same person venting their displeasure in multiple places. I also don't think it's valid to use the process of elimination to determine the best tire. If one were hands down better then I'd expect to see all glowing reports for it. Unfortunately the vast majority of people only speak up when there's a failure. I'm not aware of any recall, class action suit or the like that can actually point the finger at any one tire being unsafe and I'm pretty sure that in our litagous world there would be if a case could be made.

-Bernie
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Old 07-06-2006, 04:12 PM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Thompson
If you want to find out if Carlisle makes a good tire, Google "Carlisle Failure" or "Carlisle Blow-out" and see what others are saying. You might also try it with "Marathon Failure" or "Marathon Blow-out"
Just remember to be careful in your analysis of the results. As noted in an earlier post you need to consider the number of tires in the universe. The fact that you see little about a tire doesn't inherently mean that that tire has a good track record. Same goes on the alternative side regarding failures. How many tires are out there? While we know that there were some specific issues with Marathons some years ago, it probably does not relate to current build tires.

Heck, I'm even aware of issues where some 30' Classics accidentaly got out the door at JC with C rated tires. I have a friend who lost 3 tires on the way to the International in Vermont a couple of year back. Ended up the cause was that C rated tires were on three of the wheels rather than D's. All the failures were the C's. Should this be a mark against the tire itself?

Personally if I'm going out to buy tires, one of my major criteria will be service and for all intents that dealer network is a big part of my decision as to what brand goes on the wheel.

Most tires that are properly sized and inflated to carry their load will give you 4-5 seasons of use. How you store that trailer, how much UV those tires collect, how you inflate them, the roads you drive on, and a myriad of other items all affect the life cycle of those tires.

I don't know if anyone here can give you the definitive answer as to what is good or bad. I'm a big believer in going with what has worked in the past. I have a Honda Accord which has 144,000 miles on it. It will soon get it's third set of Michellan tires. I have matched those tires to the originals and have gotten great service from them. Yes, they cost $105 each at Sam's Club, and I could have gotten another branded tire for $25 less. But I stick with what works for me. In your instance what is on your trailer today? How has it performed? If its done well, my suggestion is to replace it with like kind. You know how the old tires performed, you should get the same level of performance. That would give me a greater comfort level that using something than you have no history with.

Just some food for thought.

Jack
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Old 07-06-2006, 06:43 PM   #185
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Will the real Carlisle please stand up?

So, looking on line I've found two different images for the Carlisle Radial Trail:
Click image for larger version

Name:	carlisle_co.jpg
Views:	83
Size:	37.8 KB
ID:	23248 
Name:   carlislestradial.jpg
Views: 431
Size:  20.4 KB
Anybody recognize one or both?
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Old 07-06-2006, 08:56 PM   #186
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When my time comes to replace tires, and after reading so many opinions, I know I’ll have to pay my money and take my chances.
But the question is: What is the correct thing to do?

To paraphrase Inland Andy:
Tires are replaced because of mileage, and because of time, no matter how few miles they may have traveled.
Replacing tires because of wear, is not a question.
Replacing tires, that have aged, but that have but a few miles on them, seems to be an uncertainty.

In my case my new Airstream had 5 new tires, therefore to be safe I should:
1.) Inspect the tires and maintain proper air pressure.
2.) Replace the four tires in 4 to 5 years.
2.) Replace the spare even if was never used – (hmmm maybe not).
3.) Replace tires after they wear due to high mileage.
4.) Replace them with whatever Airstreams recommends.
5.) Determine if the sources of the information & recommendations on the quality of the various tires available is valid and statistically verifiable. (And try not to offend anecdotist.)
5.) Buy & install a tire monitor even if I follow the above guidelines.
6.) Consider safety and professional advice above initial cost. (I’m in it for the long haul, so life-cycle costs & risks are large factors in the equation.)

And to be frugal I should:
1.) Rotate all the tires to get equal use out of the spare.
2.) Be open minded about better tires in the market. (But does that assume that Airstream has compromised quality and safety for a few dollars at their customer’s expense?)

And all I wanted to do was just go camping.
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Old 07-07-2006, 01:18 AM   #187
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Hey jack ,
I see you are running michelins and not goodyear tires on the honda .

Researching anything you are going to buy makes total sense .Consumer
reports is out there for a reason ,Researching tires and related problems
rather than just buying whatever is popular is a good idea .If there is a
significant number of a failure of anything , it's to be considered .

Jstanely ,in your last paragraph (2) is a good thing to consider ,many options
are available for tires and when on the road to go camping do check them
when you stop ,do a walk around and feel the tires ,get an idea of what is
going on with your whole coach .Then procede to the fishing spot.

Scott
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Old 07-07-2006, 02:09 AM   #188
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well bhayden I believe the ford explorer /firestone tire failure comes to mind.
Huge litigation and people got hurt or killed .I personally inspected a customers firestone tire on the explorer and the tread was delaminating from
the carcass of the tire like a retread peeling off.

Scott
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Old 07-07-2006, 09:15 AM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottanlily
well bhayden I believe the ford explorer /firestone tire failure comes to mind. Scott
Exactly, and no class action suit or recall on trailer tires. Is there even a successful (or unsuccessful for that matter) civil case in which Goodyear has been involved with their ST tires?

If Goodyears are noticably worse than other manufacturers why in the world would private label companies like Greenball, TBC (Sigma), and about a dozen others ever talk to them when if fact Goodyear is cutting of ~30% of the smaller private lable custormers. Surely if you're buisness depends on reselling a product you'd be aware and steer clear of a product that was prone to failure and not be fighting to buy from them.

-Bernie
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Old 07-07-2006, 09:40 AM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottanlily
well bhayden I believe the ford explorer /firestone tire failure comes to mind.
Huge litigation and people got hurt or killed .I personally inspected a customers firestone tire on the explorer and the tread was delaminating from
the carcass of the tire like a retread peeling off.

Scott
While there may or may not have been an issue with the Firestone Wilderness AT tires and they were all eventually recalled, thousands and thousands of them went through their entire service life without a failure. As I recall, some ridiculously high number of the failures on the Explorers were on one corner... the right rear, I think... which once again leads one to ask, how does a a significant number (like over 80%) of the defective tires in a tire model production run all end up on the right rear corner of a single make and model of car? You also have to remember that Ford recommended that the Wildnerness ATs be run at a tire pressure significantly below that recommended by Firestone for the 'ride quality' of the Explorers. The failure rate of the same tires on the Ranger pickup was considerably less than on the Explorers, according to the NHTSA:

http://www.dot.gov/affairs/nhtsa5101.htm

While the tires may not have been as robust as the competition, apparently once again, application and inflation are significant. The tire pressures recommended by Ford for the Ranger were higher than for the Explorer, and the Explorer was significantly heavier on the rear axle than the Ranger.

Which brings us back to my post in the Marathon thread:

http://www.airforums.com/forum...tml#post249688

Anecdotal evidence is interesting, but it has to be properly evaluated for it to mean anything. Just because something fails doesn't mean it's defective. Misapplication leads to more failures than any other cause. Just ask your local Snap-On tools guy.

Roger
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Old 07-07-2006, 11:35 AM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottanlily
Hey jack ,
I see you are running michelins and not goodyear tires on the honda .

Scott
Yep. That's what Honda put on them when the car was new, that's why I still use them. If it had come with Goodyears new, they would be the tire of choice today.

Jack
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Old 07-07-2006, 07:27 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottanlily
well bhayden I believe the ford explorer /firestone tire failure comes to mind.
Huge litigation and people got hurt or killed .I personally inspected a customers firestone tire on the explorer and the tread was delaminating from
the carcass of the tire like a retread peeling off.

Scott
My understanding of that Firestone issue was Ford elected to put on tires that were warginal for the load expected. So if the customer were not to air up the tires on a frequent basis the margin of safety was comprimised to a point that the tires were actually overloaded. At least this is what I understood.

Shame on Ford for cutting the load capacity so tight.
Shame on the users for not maintaining the air pressure properly.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
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Old 07-12-2006, 01:09 AM   #193
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tires tires tires

Hi, let me jump on in on this Firestone / Explorer thing. I bought a brand new Explorer in 1996. At that time I was Shop Foreman at a Ford dealer. My Explorer came with Goodyears on it and I ran 26 lbs air as per Ford's specs and never had any problems. The Firestones were the same size and load range as the Goodyears. So why did the Firestones come apart? As for the concept that the right rear tire was the one that usually came apart first; I will say lack of rotation and the right rear is the drive wheel, hince more pressure against that tire under accelleration. After more than 60,000 miles on the original tires, I replaced them with larger P265 Goodyears. Since these tires were larger I inflated them to 25 lbs. I sold this vehicle with 93,000 miles on it with about 60% of the tread left.
I loved this Explorer Sport two door, but was forced to sell it because it wasn't capable of towing the Airstream that I was planning on buying. I am now very happy with my 2005 Airstream Safari 25-B rideing on Goodyears and with my 2000 Lincoln Navigator previously rideing on Continentals 70% tread life left but sidewall cracks; Now rideing on brand new Goodyear Eagles.
I said it before and I will say it again, as for tires I will only run Goodyears or Michellins on my cars. [and trailer]

Bob
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Old 07-12-2006, 10:41 AM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcanavera
Heck, I'm even aware of issues where some 30' Classics accidentaly got out the door at JC with C rated tires. I have a friend who lost 3 tires on the way to the International in Vermont a couple of year back. Ended up the cause was that C rated tires were on three of the wheels rather than D's. All the failures were the C's. Should this be a mark against the tire itself?


Jack
Jack:

I believe that the C-rated tires were standard issue for the 30' Excella - at least thru 2000. When I equipped my unit with a spare I matched the existing tires with a C-rated spare - however, when I replaced the active set in Jackson Center late last summer, Jackson Center used D-rated tires. That led me to a question I posed earlier in this string about whether or not the new tires would allow me to increase my CCC if I raised the inflation to the maximum for the D-rated tires - or, secondly, should I now use the higher inflation value regardless of loading? I answered the second part for myself, since I know that I'm normally within the weight range of the C-rated tires - and I don't want to make the rig ride any harder. With respect to increasing my CCC, I never got an answer.
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Old 07-12-2006, 11:20 AM   #195
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Firestone/Ford debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS
Hi, let me jump on in on this Firestone / Explorer thing. So why did the Firestones come apart? As for the concept that the right rear tire was the one that usually came apart first; I will say lack of rotation and the right rear is the drive wheel, hince more pressure against that tire under accelleration.
Good point on the right rear. I'd also venture a guess that curb side tires in general have more problems than drivers side because they're more likely to pick up road debris. One interesting tid-bit I came across was that Firestone aparently in an effort to reduce cost eliminated the nylon cap over the steel belts which have become almost univeral in the tire industry to prevent the most common type of radial tire failure, belt separation. Some court testimony attempted to quantify the cost of the cap at ninty cents per tire. Also questioned was reduced "cooking time" that decreased the tire's temperature rating from A to C. Why is it that the majority of the manufacturers, including Goodyear refuse to publish data for standard temperature and traction ratings???

http://www.tiredefects.com/
http://www.tiredefects.com/wildernes...xas_update.htm
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Old 07-12-2006, 11:56 AM   #196
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I have a 28ft motorhome and I have hear that you need to put wider tires on it for better handling. Is this true?

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