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Old 04-27-2016, 09:20 AM   #29
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Thanks all for your recommendations. I bought 4 Michelin LTX MS/2 235/75R15 tires yesterday after the consensus pointed to those tires. They were $623 including all the miscellaneous charges at Discount Tires. Happy camping.
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Old 04-27-2016, 10:12 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Ridgerunner3 View Post
I am running Michelin LTX P235 75 15 XL on my Safari 25. I have about 20,000 miles on them now. They are trouble free. The only way I will ever use ST tires again is if Michelin starts making ST tires.
I replaced my GYMs on my 2016 27' FC with these Michelins last month. We picked up a nail in Texas and I just decided based on the good reports I would get it done.

Discount Tire in San Antonio took care of us in about two hours. New metal valve stems, one piece lug nuts and 5 tires was $899. No issues so far.

Removing the 65 mph speed restriction is a huge relief. Not that we speed, but having a limit of 65 is a pain getting around trucks. We go maybe 65-70 depending on conditions now.
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Old 04-27-2016, 11:45 AM   #31
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tires

Yeah everyone has a tire story. On my some other brand trailer, before the AS, I put on a set of Load range D 'ST' radials by Hercules. Made such a
'huge' difference compared to the 'Duro's that came with trailer.
I kept telling DW when we went somewhere, I think we forgot something. That trailer is way to light !
Hercules makes a very good tire. 5 years no issues. They are made in Taiwan ( the Good China). Like Maxxis.

I still have the original Goodyear tires on the AS. Wearing fine, they don't lose that much air. I put 60 psi in them last November, sat all winter, checked the other day, three @59 and one at 58. ( It is stored inside).
I may replace them at the beginning of the season next year, they have a 13 date code.

I don't know about the 'P' series on a trailer. It maybe ok, but I would rather trust a 'LT' tire in the C, D, or even a 'E' range. I might be a little superstitious but that's ok, just the way I am.
Michelin tires on D-Ram and Jeep,
Have a good one,
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Old 04-27-2016, 12:18 PM   #32
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Quoted from there web site

Where are Carlisle tires made?

Depending upon which Carlisle tire you select, the tire could have been made in a U.S. factory or elsewhere. We are an American company committed to American manufacturing and standards.
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Old 04-28-2016, 02:10 AM   #33
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Coming back to the Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL tire specifications. They are sidewall rated 2,183 pounds @ 50 psi that must be derated 10% to 1,985 pounds for trailer use per the regulation below:

49 CFR 571.110
Tire selection and rims and motor home/recreation vehicle trailer load carrying capacity information for motor vehicles with a GVWR of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) or less.

S4.2.2.1
Except as provided in S4.2.2.2, the sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle shall not be less than the GAWR of the axle system as specified on the vehicle's certification label required by 49 CFR part 567. If the certification label shows more than one GAWR for the axle system, the sum shall be not less than the GAWR corresponding to the size designation of the tires fitted to the axle.

S4.2.2.2
When passenger car tires are installed on an MPV, truck, bus, or trailer, each tire's load rating is reduced by dividing it by 1.10 before determining, under S4.2.2.1, the sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle.

S4.2.2.3
(a) For vehicles, except trailers with no designated seating positions, equipped with passenger car tires, the vehicle normal load on the tire shall be no greater than 94 percent of the derated load rating at the vehicle manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressure for that tire.
(b) For vehicles, except trailers with no designated seating positions, equipped with LT tires, the vehicle normal load on the tire shall be no greater than 94 percent of the load rating at the vehicle manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressure for that tire.

Thus for four tires the total derated load capacity is calculated as 4 x 1985 = 7,940 pounds pounds. If the owner lacks the load weight of each individual tire when loaded ready to camp, some tire professionals on the forum make the case for a minimum of a 10% lower capacity since one tire or axle could be supporting much more than the average weight.

Thus the load margin would suggest the total axle weights could be okay at 7,149 pounds. Others have suggested a 20% margin which would be supporting 6,352 pounds on the axles.

The 30' model Airstreams with a GVW of 8,800 pounds have a literature tongue weight typically of 880 pounds which, if true, would mean the axles are supporting 7,920 pounds of a fully loaded trailer. Comparing that number to the maximum rating of four 15" Michelin tires of 7,940 pounds shows a 20 pound excess capacity. After installing a hitch and other gear, the tongue weight typically gets higher, so the maximum axle scales weight would be lower to remain within the 8,800 GVW.

This pushes the user of a 30/31' model considering the 15" Michelin tires to realize the factory literature payload number of 2,418 pounds would not be available and perhaps would need to be closer to 1,700 pounds to have a tire loading with close to 10% reserve capacity in the tires.
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Old 04-29-2016, 03:16 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by switz View Post
Coming back to the Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL tire specifications. They are sidewall rated 2,183 pounds @ 50 psi that must be derated 10% to 1,985 pounds for trailer use per the regulation below:

49 CFR 571.110
Tire selection and rims and motor home/recreation vehicle trailer load carrying capacity information for motor vehicles with a GVWR of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) or less.

S4.2.2.1
Except as provided in S4.2.2.2, the sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle shall not be less than the GAWR of the axle system as specified on the vehicle's certification label required by 49 CFR part 567. If the certification label shows more than one GAWR for the axle system, the sum shall be not less than the GAWR corresponding to the size designation of the tires fitted to the axle.

S4.2.2.2
When passenger car tires are installed on an MPV, truck, bus, or trailer, each tire's load rating is reduced by dividing it by 1.10 before determining, under S4.2.2.1, the sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle.

S4.2.2.3
(a) For vehicles, except trailers with no designated seating positions, equipped with passenger car tires, the vehicle normal load on the tire shall be no greater than 94 percent of the derated load rating at the vehicle manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressure for that tire.
(b) For vehicles, except trailers with no designated seating positions, equipped with LT tires, the vehicle normal load on the tire shall be no greater than 94 percent of the load rating at the vehicle manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressure for that tire.

Thus for four tires the total derated load capacity is calculated as 4 x 1985 = 7,940 pounds pounds. If the owner lacks the load weight of each individual tire when loaded ready to camp, some tire professionals on the forum make the case for a minimum of a 10% lower capacity since one tire or axle could be supporting much more than the average weight.

Thus the load margin would suggest the total axle weights could be okay at 7,149 pounds. Others have suggested a 20% margin which would be supporting 6,352 pounds on the axles.

The 30' model Airstreams with a GVW of 8,800 pounds have a literature tongue weight typically of 880 pounds which, if true, would mean the axles are supporting 7,920 pounds of a fully loaded trailer. Comparing that number to the maximum rating of four 15" Michelin tires of 7,940 pounds shows a 20 pound excess capacity. After installing a hitch and other gear, the tongue weight typically gets higher, so the maximum axle scales weight would be lower to remain within the 8,800 GVW.

This pushes the user of a 30/31' model considering the 15" Michelin tires to realize the factory literature payload number of 2,418 pounds would not be available and perhaps would need to be closer to 1,700 pounds to have a tire loading with close to 10% reserve capacity in the tires.
Your information is misleading and incorrect. You posted this once before suggesting that the P stands for Passenger.

Michelin LTX Stands for Light Truck Extra Load, it is not a passenger tire.
I have the same tire on my F-150 , LTX MS P275/55R20. Recommended tire per manufacturers suggestion.
One thing I would advise everyone is to hit the scales a few times a year. I have yet to exceed 7,700 LBS on our 2013 - 30' International trailer axles loaded for our trips, includes a full tank of water.
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Old 04-29-2016, 03:25 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
Your information is misleading and incorrect. You posted this once before suggesting that the P stands for Passenger.



Michelin LTX Stands for Light Truck Extra Load, it is not a passenger tire.

I have the same tire on my F-150 , LTX MS P275/55R20. Recommended tire per manufacturers suggestion.

One thing I would advise everyone is to hit the scales a few times a year. I have yet to exceed 7,700 LBS on our 2013 - 30' International trailer axles loaded for our trips, includes a full tank of water.

Actually, he is correct. This has been covered by the tire engineers who participate in the forums. It's very confusing because on the 15" tire the LTX is marketing, it is not the technical class of tire. The tire is a P rated tire - Passenger car tire, not an LT (Light Truck). I'll try to dig up that reference but you can search for this with either tireman9 or capriracer.
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Old 04-29-2016, 03:42 PM   #36
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For this tire "LTX MS P275/55R20"

It is the "P" in front of the 275/55 R20 that designates this as a Passenger car tire.

Not my say so, it is the feds (DOT - NTHSA) that set this up.
http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/Tire.../brochure.html

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Old 04-29-2016, 03:46 PM   #37
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I couldn't find the thread (but thanks Action for the note above) so I called Michelin. The P in that position (P235...) designates this as a Passenger tire. The LTX M/S2 is literally the NAME of the tire. While M/S is meant to tell you you can drive it in mud and snow, the LTX means nothing. Pure marketing. It is not a light truck (LT) classification and does not modify the P (Passenger) rating on the tire.
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Old 04-29-2016, 03:50 PM   #38
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As a post script and as a former employee of Ford Motor Company, many light truck applications (in the lower GVW ranges) get passenger car tires installed.

Examples would be less than full sized pick up trucks (Ranger), smaller SUVs to full sized SUV and some F150s.

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Old 04-29-2016, 05:24 PM   #39
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My Tundra has 4 ply P-rated tires.
Sequoias, Tahoes/Yukons, Silverados/Sierras and other come with the exact same Bridgestone Dueler tires.


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Old 04-30-2016, 08:49 AM   #40
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Just a clarification:

The 10% derating applies to P type tires, but only when used on a light truck or trailer. While those of us in the tire industry refer to these tires as *passenger car tires*, it's because that is their PRIMARY usage - not their exclusive usage. Please note that the use of the letter *P* only applies to tires designed to US tire standards, and not the European or Japanese tire standards. The European and the Japanese tire standards do not use the letter *P* - however, the derate procedure applies whether or not the letter appears.

By contrast LT tires are referred to as *Light Truck tires* even though LT tires can be used on trailers.

That is because the letters are referring to a tire standard (eg load tables) and NOT to the common usage.

Technically the letter(s) is (are) part of the size designation and I make a special point to include it whenever I am referring to these and other tires that use letters. I suggest everyone try to remember to do this as it helps avoid miscommunication.

Also, the 10% derating of passenger car tires when used in a light truck or trailer application PRE-DATES the federal regulations. It appears in tire standards BEFORE the federal regulations were written - and the regulations adopted the standard completely including the 10%.

Ergo: There is an engineering reason why passenger car tires are derated, and the regulations reflect that. I can only speculate what the engineering reason is as the standards were put in place before I started working in the industry, and the standards themselves do not give a reason.
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Old 04-30-2016, 10:43 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveSueMac View Post
I couldn't find the thread (but thanks Action for the note above) so I called Michelin. The P in that position (P235...) designates this as a Passenger tire. The LTX M/S2 is literally the NAME of the tire. While M/S is meant to tell you you can drive it in mud and snow, the LTX means nothing. Pure marketing. It is not a light truck (LT) classification and does not modify the P (Passenger) rating on the tire.
If I read you correctly I should ignore all information stamped on the tire and contact the manufacturer for interpretation. Also the performance stats they publish like the T-108 rating, right?

So they stamp the big LTX on the tire and it means nothing but they stamp a "P" on there and it means something, how clever.
I don't know of too many cars running around with 20" wheels
and 4,100 LBS rear axle capacity like my F-150. At 44 PSI the tire is rated for 2,400 LBS stamped right on the tire. But I guess it all means nothing so better not hook up my AS behind my truck since the P rated tires might disintegrate under the load.

Happy to report that it must be all a big joke since I run these tires on my TV and my AS and after 20,000 miles of running them whenever conditions allow at 70 MPH, all over the country they still look like new and the ride is just awesome.
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Old 04-30-2016, 01:29 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
If I read you correctly I should ignore all information stamped on the tire and contact the manufacturer for interpretation. Also the performance stats they publish like the T-108 rating, right?



So they stamp the big LTX on the tire and it means nothing but they stamp a "P" on there and it means something, how clever.

I don't know of too many cars running around with 20" wheels

and 4,100 LBS rear axle capacity like my F-150. At 44 PSI the tire is rated for 2,400 LBS stamped right on the tire. But I guess it all means nothing so better not hook up my AS behind my truck since the P rated tires might disintegrate under the load.



Happy to report that it must be all a big joke since I run these tires on my TV and my AS and after 20,000 miles of running them whenever conditions allow at 70 MPH, all over the country they still look like new and the ride is just awesome.

No - I'm sorry, Frank, you aren't reading me correctly at all. Please see the post just before yours that I'm replying to now. I think capriracer (one of the tire engineers I mentioned earlier) provides a perfect explanation of what I'm saying - perhaps in a way you'll find less offensive, more effective, or more authoritative.

For whatever it's worth - many trucks use P rated tires and no doubt the placard on your door tells you how much load and PSI you are working with.

I won't repeat what I've said earlier in this string but would certainly encourage you to re-read it and the other posts and see if it comes together a little better for you.

Happy camping!
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