Tire Ratings vs Tire Pressures - My Education

[farrel509]

I searched the treads and didn't see anything on LOAD/INFLATION INFORMATION from tire manufacturers so I thought I would post what I have found out, so far:

I downloaded LOAD/INFLATION charts from three manufacturers - Goodyear, Michelin, and Toyo. THE SPECIFICATIONS LISTED FOR ALL THREE ARE IDENTICAL! At the bottom of the Goodyear chart it says, "Industry standards for load & inflation are being revised."

Question - Who handles "industry standards?"

Assumption - Since all three charts indicate the same load capacity at the same tire pressures for LT225/75R16 Light Truck Tires, I assume the ratings fall under "industry standards" and would be the same for all tires sold in the US. Any ideas on this?

Next, I have discovered that E rated LT tires size 225/75R16 are all rated for 2680 pounds at 80 psi. If you decrease the tire pressures to 65psi, each chart shows the tires are now only rated as D !! Here is the Inflation Pressure (PSI) versus load data, as shown:
35psi - 1500 lbs
40psi - 1650 lbs
45psi - 1790 lbs
50psi - 1940(C) lbs
55psi - 2060 lbs
60psi - 2190 lbs
65psi - 2335(D) lbs
70psi - 2440 lbs
75psi - 2560 lbs
80psi - 2680(E) lbs

So now lets look at the "industry standard" chart for the standard TRAILER TIRES Airstream gave me on my 2009 28' International:
Goodyear Marathon ST225/75R15 (trailer service)
Max Speed Rating 65mph
15psi - 1060 lbs (seriously, really?)
20psi - 1260 lbs
25psi - 1430 lbs
30psi - 1600 lbs
35psi - 1760 lbs
40psi - 1880 lbs
45psi - 2020 lbs
50psi - 2150(C) lbs
55psi - 2270 lbs
60psi - 2380 lbs (Airstream's recommended pressure)
65psi - 2540(D) lbs

As you can see, Airstreams recommended pressure does not run the tire up to it's full load rating of D.

So, without getting into factors of safety, kinetic rebound (k factor), rotational moments of inertia :-) or whether the tire is rated for human conveyance, it looks like Airstream wants me to have a capacity of 2380 pounds per tire times four tires. The Gross Vehicle Weight of my trailer is 7300 pounds.

Looking back at the light truck specs it appears my new LT tires would need to be inflated to between 65psi and 70psi for this same load rating.

My only conclusion, so far, is if you have made the switch to 16" light truck tires you should be running higher than 60psi to get the same load rating as the GYM's.

My new 16's just came in. (I bought a set of E-rated Kumho LT's) I'll keep you posted on whether I start shaking doors off their hinges!

[r carl]

Good luck with the china kumhoe's.

[farrel509]

Originally Posted by r carl

Good luck with the china kumhoe's.

Korea

[idroba]

Originally Posted by farrel509

My only conclusion, so far, is if you have made the switch to 16" light truck tires you should be running higher than 60psi to get the same load rating as the GYM's.

Yes, that is true, I am running my new 16" tires at 75psi. I have a single axle FC 20 with about 4400 # on the axel, 700 on the tongue.

It rides very well. By accident I left an open bottle of water on the bathroom countertop the other day, towed 50 miles. The bottle was still sitting there when I stopped for a break. It had not moved or spilled.

[r carl]

Originally Posted by idroba

Yes, that is true, I am running my new 16" tires at 75psi. I have a single axle FC 20 with about 4400 # on the axel, 700 on the tongue.

It rides very well. By accident I left an open bottle of water on the bathroom countertop the other day, towed 50 miles. The bottle was still sitting there when I stopped for a break. It had not moved or spilled.

You must have good driving skills, the glass would slide off the counter at the first corner for me.

[dznf0g]

I have settled in at 75psi for my 16" Michelins after experimenting with 70, 75, and 80 psi. On any given trip I have 7500 - 8000#s on the tires total. (and 850 - 950 on the tongue)

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by farrel509

I searched the threads and didn't see anything on LOAD/INFLATION INFORMATION from tire manufacturers so I thought I would post what I have found out, so far:

I downloaded LOAD/INFLATION charts from three manufacturers - Goodyear, Michelin, and Toyo. THE SPECIFICATIONS LISTED FOR ALL THREE ARE IDENTICAL! At the bottom of the Goodyear chart it says, "Industry standards for load & inflation are being revised."

Question - Who handles "industry standards?"

Assumption - Since all three charts indicate the same load capacity at the same tire pressures for LT225/75R16 Light Truck Tires, I assume the ratings fall under "industry standards" and would be the same for all tires sold in the US. Any ideas on this?

Next, I have discovered that E rated LT tires size 225/75R16 are all rated for 2680 pounds at 80 psi. If you decrease the tire pressures to 65psi, each chart shows the tires are now only rated as D !! Here is the Inflation Pressure (PSI) versus load data, as shown:
35psi - 1500 lbs
40psi - 1650 lbs
45psi - 1790 lbs
50psi - 1940(C) lbs
55psi - 2060 lbs
60psi - 2190 lbs
65psi - 2335(D) lbs
70psi - 2440 lbs
75psi - 2560 lbs
80psi - 2680(E) lbs

So now lets look at the "industry standard" chart for the standard TRAILER TIRES Airstream gave me on my 2009 28' International:
Goodyear Marathon ST225/75R15 (trailer service)
Max Speed Rating 65mph
15psi - 1060 lbs (seriously, really?)
20psi - 1260 lbs
25psi - 1430 lbs
30psi - 1600 lbs
35psi - 1760 lbs
40psi - 1880 lbs
45psi - 2020 lbs
50psi - 2150(C) lbs
55psi - 2270 lbs
60psi - 2380 lbs (Airstream's recommended pressure)
65psi - 2540(D) lbs

As you can see, Airstreams recommended pressure does not run the tire up to it's full load rating of D.

So, without getting into factors of safety, kinetic rebound (k factor), rotational moments of inertia :-) or whether the tire is rated for human conveyance, it looks like Airstream wants me to have a capacity of 2380 pounds per tire times four tires. The Gross Vehicle Weight of my trailer is 7300 pounds.

Looking back at the light truck specs it appears my new LT tires would need to be inflated to between 65psi and 70psi for this same load rating.

My only conclusion, so far, is if you have made the switch to 16" light truck tires you should be running higher than 60psi to get the same load rating as the GYM's.

My new 16's just came in. (I bought a set of E-rated Kumho LT's) I'll keep you posted on whether I start shaking doors off their hinges!

First, you will want to read my write-up on Tire Standardizing Organizations:

Barry's Tire Tech

Then follow that up with the page on Load Tables:

Barry's Tire Tech

********************

Now that you have read those, allow me to point out an error you made.

The term "Load Range" doesn't mean a fixed load carrying capacity. It means a relative strength level - and the actually load carrying capacity which will vary by tire size.

Then I will point out that ST tires are speed restricted to 65 mph, where LT tires are restricted to some higher speed indicated by the speed rating. (OK, it's not quite as simple as that, but allow me to continue)

Part of what goes into determining the load carrying capacity is speed and the load tables are set up for the speed of the intented service. If you dig around the tire standards, you will repeatedly find references to changes in load carrying capacity for differences in speeds. For example, if you want to raise the speed restriction of an ST tire from 65 mph to 85 mph, you need to increase the inflation pressure 10 psi and reduce the load by 10% (which has the same effect as increasing the inflation pressure another 10 psi.)

So LT tires and ST tires are load rated at different speeds. Put another way, if you were to operate an LT tire in exactly the same way as an ST, the load carrying capacities are the same. - HOWEVER - this is a bit of complication that is beyond most peoples ability to understand - They tend to fall back on the published load tables.

So you may encounter some difficulties with a tire dealer refusing to mount an LT tire in place of an ST.

So, no, if you go from an ST225/75R15 Load Range D operated at 65 psi to an LT225/75R16 Load Range E operated at 65 psi, you gain about a 6% increase in load carrying capacity. If you were to operate the LT225/75R16 at 80 psi, you gain a total of about 22%.

[28Argosy]

Gosh this stuff is going over my head. I am sure all this will make sense to hubby, but meanwhile - I am lost...
The current tires on our Argosy 28 are Good Year 7.00-15LT. "Trailer High Mileage Tubeless White Walls"...
Opinions?

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by farrel509

I searched the treads and didn't see anything on LOAD/INFLATION INFORMATION from tire manufacturers so I thought I would post what I have found out, so far:

I downloaded LOAD/INFLATION charts from three manufacturers - Goodyear, Michelin, and Toyo. THE SPECIFICATIONS LISTED FOR ALL THREE ARE IDENTICAL! At the bottom of the Goodyear chart it says, "Industry standards for load & inflation are being revised."

Question - Who handles "industry standards?"

Assumption - Since all three charts indicate the same load capacity at the same tire pressures for LT225/75R16 Light Truck Tires, I assume the ratings fall under "industry standards" and would be the same for all tires sold in the US. Any ideas on this?

Next, I have discovered that E rated LT tires size 225/75R16 are all rated for 2680 pounds at 80 psi. If you decrease the tire pressures to 65psi, each chart shows the tires are now only rated as D !! Here is the Inflation Pressure (PSI) versus load data, as shown:

snip

So now lets look at the "industry standard" chart for the standard TRAILER TIRES Airstream gave me on my 2009 28' International:
Goodyear Marathon ST225/75R15 (trailer service)
Max Speed Rating 65mph

snip

As you can see, Airstreams recommended pressure does not run the tire up to it's full load rating of D.

So, without getting into factors of safety, kinetic rebound (k factor), rotational moments of inertia :-) or whether the tire is rated for human conveyance, it looks like Airstream wants me to have a capacity of 2380 pounds per tire times four tires. The Gross Vehicle Weight of my trailer is 7300 pounds.

Looking back at the light truck specs it appears my new LT tires would need to be inflated to between 65psi and 70psi for this same load rating.

My only conclusion, so far, is if you have made the switch to 16" light truck tires you should be running higher than 60psi to get the same load rating as the GYM's.

My new 16's just came in. (I bought a set of E-rated Kumho LT's) I'll keep you posted on whether I start shaking doors off their hinges!

CapriRacer covered a lot of your questions but I have a few other comments.
If you want to know the Load/Inflation numbers for your tires it is best to go to the tables on the web site of the manufacturer. While MOST tires will have identical numbers there are a few exceptions and those exceptions would ONLY apply to tires covered by the MFG of the specific tires you are interested in. You should not use information from Goodyear for any other brand tire. You should not use info from Micheline for any other brand tire. Etc, Etc.

So now you understand that while there are "Industry Standards" you should use the tables from the mfg of your tires. Don't confuse the issue by saying you are referring to "Industry Standards" when establishing the Load/Inflation for Goodyear Marathons. For GY you should use this table. (even if the numbers are the same from another mfg for you do not know when one mfg might change their ratings)

Your "conclusion is if you have made the switch to 16" light truck tires you should be running higher than 60psi to get the same load rating as the GYM's." is correct. You must run at least 70 psi to maintain the 2380# load capacity.

I suggest the best investment you can make is metal valves and a TPM system for the TT & TV to alert you when you have a loss of air. Plus have a gauge you know is accurate.

[28Argosy]

Thank you.
I do not see the 7.00 but I do see the 7.5 So- for E tires, that would give 80 psi. So - is this the correct tire for our Argosy 28?
"
7.50R16LT S 1620 1770 1930 2040(C) 2190 2310 2470(D) 2560 2670 2755(E) "

[BlackAces]

Originally Posted by CapriRacer

Part of what goes into determining the load carrying capacity is speed and the load tables are set up for the speed of the intented service. If you dig around the tire standards, you will repeatedly find references to changes in load carrying capacity for differences in speeds. For example, if you want to raise the speed restriction of an ST tire from 65 mph to 85 mph, you need to increase the inflation pressure 10 psi and reduce the load by 10% (which has the same effect as increasing the inflation pressure another 10 psi.)

Barry, Maybe we need a little more information on this fooling around with tire pressures and vehicle load adjustments to go faster with the ST tires.

Aren't those procedures a responsibility of the tire manufacturer or vehicle manufacturer or both?

The regulation addresses increasing tire pressures for LT tires but clearly indicates such increases must be approved by the tire manufacturer and placed in the vehicle's owner's manual by the vehicle manufacturer.

Goodyear says that procedure for the ST tires is available but I have yet to find any mention of it in any RV trailer owner's manual or on the tire's sidewalls.


BA

[BlackAces]

According to the way industry standards describe the procedures for replacement tires, either the same size or plus sizing them, may require air pressure adjustments to acquire replacement tire load capacities equal to or greater than the Original Equipment (OE) tires. Those type of industry standards will normally come from the Tire & Rim Association and/or the Rubber Manufacturers Association or both.

This is important and often misunderstood. The DOT regulations task vehicle manufacturers to set the cold recommended tire pressures found on your trailer's certification label/tire placard. Those recommended tire pressures provide the necessary load capacity to support your trailer's maximum GAWR. They can best be described as "set in stone".

A brief description of how replacement tires are supposed to have equal load capacities when compared to the OE tires gets muddy when LT/P tires are used to replace ST tires. All three have different air pressure requirements to satisfy GAWR load capacity.

This is where a savvy installer will shine. The fitment of replacement tires may require new rims. Clearances must be closely checked to insure minimum standards are met. EXAMPLE: OE tire size ST225/75R15D with a cold recommended tire pressure of 65 psi produces 2540# of load capacity per tire. When replacing with the LT225/75R16E, a new recommended tire pressure would be 75 psi to produce 2560# of load capacity. The installer would tell the trailer owner the new cold tire pressure for his records and then follow-up by placing an auxiliary tire placard adjacent to the original placard for all subsequent owners.

BA

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by BlackAces

Barry, Maybe we need a little more information on this fooling around with tire pressures and vehicle load adjustments to go faster with the ST tires.

Aren't those procedures a responsibility of the tire manufacturer or vehicle manufacturer or both?....

The tire manufacturer is complying with the industry standard (or should be) and the vehicle manufacturer uses the industry standard to determine the proper inflation pressure. So I tend to see this as 100% the vehicle manufacturer's responsibility. In theory, the vehicle manufacturer should gain acceptance from the tire manufacturer for the fitment, but in practice that isn't the way it works.

Originally Posted by BlackAcese

.......

Originally Posted by BlackAcese

The regulation addresses increasing tire pressures for LT tires but clearly indicates such increases must be approved by the tire manufacturer and placed in the vehicle's owner's manual by the vehicle manufacturer.

Goodyear says that procedure for the ST tires is available but I have yet to find any mention of it in any RV trailer owner's manual or on the tire's sidewalls.


BA

This whole business of the affect speed has on load carrying capacity is muddy. The theory behind the way tires work, backed by both experiments to establish the validity of the theory and the actual experience people have with tires, indicates that this is a "truth". In other words, it's part of the science. The way people react to this science varies.

Personally, I think this is a bit too complex for most people - especially considering there are legal ramifications. Following the industry standard exactly as it is written is always a safe position.

If you've followed the saga about LT's vs ST's (and, BlackAces, I know you have), then you'll remember the discussions about responses from tire manufacturers to questions being posed to them - that is, it depends on how you ask the question. It is very important to realize that printed responses show up in court - and will affect the outcome.

Originally Posted by 28Argosy

Thank you.

Originally Posted by 28Argosy

I do not see the 7.00 but I do see the 7.5 So- for E tires, that would give 80 psi. So - is this the correct tire for our Argosy 28?
"
7.50R16LT S 1620 1770 1930 2040(C) 2190 2310 2470(D) 2560 2670 2755(E) "

First, a 7.00-15 is built to an obsolete tire sizing system and those tires have basically disappeared.

No, a 7.50-16 is NOT an equivalent. Note the last number. that's the diameter of the wheel - 15" vs 16"!! 15" tires fit only on 15" wheels, and 16" tires only fit on 16" wheels.

And here is where is gets complicated.

7.00-15's came in "Ply Ratings" - now "Load Ranges" - and that greatly affects what is equivalent.

Dimensionwise, a 7.00-15 is 8.0" wide on a 5 1/2" rim, with an allowable rim width range of 5" to 6 1/2", a diameter of 29.6" with a load carrying capacity of 1710# at 45 psi (LR C) to 2335# at 75 psi (LR E).

An ST225/75R15 is 8.8" wide on a 6" rim (8.6" on a 5 1/2" rim), and allowable rim width range of 6" to 7", a diameter of 28.3", and a load carrying capacity of 2150# at 50 psi (LR C) to 2830# at 80 psi (LR E)

AN ST205/75R15 is 8.0" wide on a 5 1/2" rim, with an allowable rim width range of 5" to 6 1/2", a diameter of 27.1", and a load carrying capacity of 1820# at 50 psi (LR C) and 2150# at 65 (LR D)

So it sounds like an ST205/75R15 is the closest match, but there is a 2 1/2" difference in diameter.

Problem: We don't know which load range is the correct one. You could look at the old tires and see what it says - or you could consult the vehicle tire placard and the owners manual (but I don't think that will yield any useful information) - or you could weigh the trailer (which I would recommend anyway as things have changed over the years.)

Weigh your trailer in the worst possible condition - fully loaded with everything you can think of including full water tanks. Weigh the trailer tire by tire if possible. If you can't I'd recommend adding a factor of 10% to the axle weights, of if you weighed both axles at the same time 15%.

I'd also recommend using no more than 85% of the rated capacity of the ST tires.

[28Argosy]

Thank you for the specific explanation on my tire situation.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by 28Argosy

Gosh this stuff is going over my head. I am sure all this will make sense to hubby, but meanwhile - I am lost...
The current tires on our Argosy 28 are Good Year 7.00-15LT. "Trailer High Mileage Tubeless White Walls"...
Opinions?

What is the DOT serial date for your tires? That size is an old size.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by CapriRacer

snip

Part of what goes into determining the load carrying capacity is speed and the load tables are set up for the speed of the intented service. If you dig around the tire standards, you will repeatedly find references to changes in load carrying capacity for differences in speeds. For example, if you want to raise the speed restriction of an ST tire from 65 mph to 85 mph, you need to increase the inflation pressure 10 psi and reduce the load by 10% (which has the same effect as increasing the inflation pressure another 10 psi.)

snip

Capri, Need to be careful with the speed adjustment info. It can easily be misinterpreted. I had a discussion with GY Cust Service and was told that their tech bulletin only addresses the +10 mph with a +10psi and does not allow for an increase in pressure above the pressure associated with the max load. I am still trying to get something in writing from GY.

Also even if GY says it is OK to do this you should not use a GY bulliten and apply the information to an other brand. This would be like using Michelin unique load/infl info on a Cooper brand tire.

[farrel509]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

Capri, Need to be careful with the speed adjustment info. It can easily be misinterpreted. I had a discussion with GY Cust Service and was told that their tech bulletin only addresses the +10 mph with a +10psi and does not allow for an increase in pressure above the pressure associated with the max load. I am still trying to get something in writing from GY. Also even if GY says it is OK to do this you should not use a GY bulliten and apply the information to an other brand. This would be like using Michelin unique load/infl info on a Cooper brand tire.

Tireman,

That GYM service bulletin is here: http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires...plications.pdf

Industry standard clearly show tires developed for specific service ALL meet the same load/inflation specifications. When the tire service (use), size, and top load ratings are the same, the chart of loads vs inflation pressures are identical. Brand has nothing to do with it.

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by farrel509

Tireman,

That GYM service bulletin is here: http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires...plications.pdf

Industry standard clearly show tires developed for specific service ALL meet the same load/inflation specifications. When the tire service (use), size, and top load ratings are the same, the chart of loads vs inflation pressures are identical. Brand has nothing to do with it.

I think what Roger was getting at was that, while the issue of what affect speed has on a tire's performance may be independent of brand - kind of a Physics sort of thing - the brand determines how the warranty is affected and what the brand feels comfortable with as far as recommendations are concerned. Straying outside the parameters stated by the tire manufacturer would affect what testing they would have done to verify the performance envelope and how the warranty is applied.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by farrel509

Tireman,

That GYM service bulletin is here: http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires...plications.pdf

Industry standard clearly show tires developed for specific service ALL meet the same load/inflation specifications. When the tire service (use), size, and top load ratings are the same, the chart of loads vs inflation pressures are identical. Brand has nothing to do with it.

Yep it is true that TRA does allow all tires without a "Service Description" to exceed the default 65 mph speed limit. This per my discussion with an engineer at TRA about an hour ago.
The problem is that Goodyear will tell you not to exceed 75 on their ST tires even though the "standards" allow operation to 85mph, so you really need to be sure you fully comprehend what you are reading when you make broad statements about adjustments that can be made outside the normal conditions.

Many times there things you can do but that doesn't mean it is the wise thing to do. You may be able to run your engine above the "redline" but I don't think that is wise.

[BlackAces]

Tire pressures for RV trailer tires (any design) are just not arbitrary. The trailer manufacturers are directed by the DOT to set the correct recommended (cold) tire pressures and display them on the trailer's certification label/tire placard and in the vehicle's owner's manual.

I attend two to four large RV sows every year. In the past two - three years I've never seen any size RV trailer with recommended tire pressures below the maximum allowed on the OE tire's sidewall. I'm sure there is valid reasoning for that condition. RV trailers are notoriously over loaded.

The regulations for tire selection and fitment to the RV trailer axles differ considerably from the automotive industry. Trailer tire manufacturers tout their tires as always needing full sidewall pressure and that it's not harmful to the tires. Their load inflation charts are intended to assist vehicle manufacturer's in their tire fitment selections and nothing else.

I have not figured out how to use a load inflation chart on tires that are already using maximum tire pressures. NHTSA allows tire pressures to be lowered for special conditions. Normally it's never going to be recommended to use less tire pressure than that which has been recommended for the Original Equipment tires. Remember, I'm writing about RV trailer tire fitments. Do not confuse that information with motorized RV tire fitments.

BA