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Old 07-11-2007, 10:47 AM   #1
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Tire pressure?

Hi guys and gals
What's the desired tire pressure for my 2007 25 foot CCD SS? When we picked up our trailer the service tech said he filled the tires at 80% of the recommended pressure. "You'll have a much better ride" was his reasoning.
Thanks in advance for your suggestions.
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Old 07-11-2007, 11:09 AM   #2
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Wiser folks than I will answer this, but I always run my tires at 65psi, the max rating called for by Airstream. I don't find any problem with the ride, and I think the higher pressure provides for less rolling resistance and therefore better mileage.
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Old 07-11-2007, 11:11 AM   #3
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I, and almost everyone I know, inflate the tires to the maximum indicated on the sidewall (max cold tire inflation). While providing a 'softer ride' underinflation leads to early tread wear, higher operating temperatures, and...duh...tire failure. Please stick with the max operating pressure.
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Old 07-11-2007, 11:21 AM   #4
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Works for me!
Thanks for the info.
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Old 07-11-2007, 11:25 AM   #5
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Ditto to Scott's comments---Read your tire sidewall for pressure required to have max tire capacity to carry load. Set this pressure when the tire has not been running (cold temp) and don't worry about ride considerations. Those are very secondary to the primary function of the tire to operate effectively when loaded.
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Old 07-11-2007, 11:27 AM   #6
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This is an often discussed issue here on the forums. The general answer is to put the maximum pressure that your tires are rated for. This is particularly important if you plan on towing at "highway" speeds. I see that you live in California and IIRC, the max towing speed allowed on the interstates in CA is 55 MPH. If that is still the speed limit for trailers, 80% is probably safe. If you plan on towing outside of CA and at speeds above 55 MPH, say at 65 or 70 MPH on the western interstates, you will want to increase the tire pressure.

The faster you tow, the faster the tire walls flex as they go from the curved profile to the flat part that comes into contact with the pavement. This flexing creates friction in the tire wall and generates heat. Heat is the enemy of tire walls and is one of the main culprits in blow-outs. By increasing the tire pressure you stiffen the side walls and reduce the amount of flexing and reduce the amount of heat build up in the side walls of the tires and, thus, reduce the likelihood of a blow-out. It is important to note that this is not the only cause of blow-outs and won't guarantee that you won't have one. It is just a precaution to help reduce the risk.

Yes, your trailer will ride softer and easier if the tire pressure is lower, but I think risk just isn't worth it. My tires are the Goodyear Marathons that came on my Airstream. They have a maximum rating of 65 psi for speeds up to 65 MPH. I currently run 65 psi in them. That is the maximum that my local tire shop was comfortable putting in them. Having said that, Goodyear's web site says that if you want to tow at a higher speed, you can increase the tire pressure to 75 psi and tow at speeds up to 75 MPH. One of our forum members recently replaced all four of his tires with a different brand that recommended 80 psi. It really depends on the manufacturer and their recommendations. The max tire pressure is always embossed on the side of the tire wall near the rim along with the tire's model numbers.

Nearly all of my towing is done on the interstate and in Georgia you either stick to 70-75 minimum or you become a road hazard. Additionally, because the semis stay mostly in the far right hand lane on the interstate, that lane is pretty rough on all Georgia and Florida interstates so I tend to stay in the second from the right lane so my Airstream gets a smoother riding lane. I stop approximately every 2-1/2 to 3 hours for food, fuel, or pottie breaks and I test the temperature of my tires' side walls as soon as we stop. This also gives the tires a chance to cool off some, too, while we are stopped. My wife gets a little impatient with me doing this but I think it is too important to ignore. The first year I just felt of the tires with my hand and they never felt as warm as straight hot tap water. Usually more like a warm bath. I knew this was no accurate way to judge the tire temp so I bought an infrared thermometer from Sears for about $80.

Last week while traveling to central Florida in the heat of June/July my average side wall temperature was about 120F on the shady side and about 130F or so on the sunny side. This averaged about 10F less than the temperature of the truck tires. I also had a 1,000 LBS golf cart in the bed of the truck so it was carrying a heavier load than it normally would so I figured the tire temp on the trailer was in a safe zone. I did happen to take a reading just before we left one rest area and on the sunny side the tire wall temp was 171F after sitting idle in the sun. To make sure it was just the intense Florida sun beating down on the black rubber, I took a temp reading from the shaded treads on the same tire and the temp of the surface of the tire that came in contact with the pavement was 141F in the shade.

This is just my experience and you will get a dozen or more folks that disagree with everything I have written and they are probably more right than I am. I have only towed last year and this year with probably about 9,000 miles under my belt, but I have had no blow-outs and my tire shop said I have about 1/2 of the tread life left in my tires so I guess I'm doing OK. I may have blow-outs on my next trip. Who knows?
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Old 07-11-2007, 12:11 PM   #7
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I'm assuming you searched "tire pressure" and the results made your head spin. Mine did the first time too.
One of of the most interesting was a comment from a Michelin tire engineer claiming that a properly inflated tire should raise no more than 5% in pressure over cold when checked hot. This worked out to 60 psi in the GT.
Also found this Goodyear chart. You'll need to compare load weight to tire size, ect. ect.
The only problem I have found from experience, and may only apply to a lightly loaded, single axle vintage is that the the brakes are more likely to lock up and skid the tires. Usually at the time you need the most traction. Need to pay more attention to the controller I guess.

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Old 07-11-2007, 01:12 PM   #8
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Tire pressure is not a hard thing once you have found the manufactures inflation chart. Here is the chart for Goodyear 225 75 R 15
http://www.goodyear.com/rv/pdf/rv_inflation.pdf
While it is generaly accepted that a given tire size, independent of manufacture, would carry the same pressure per load it is a good thing to get the manufactures chart to be sure. Don't expect the tire store to have the answer as most of them have never heard of an inflation chart.

Every manufacture has this chart published for thier tires and you are well advised to use it.

With my tri axle I inflate to 45 lbs. ,not the 65 as noted as the MAX. on the tire sidewall. If I inflated to 65 lbs. the rivets would be flying of the walls and I would have little or no control over the trailer in rain as the trailer would be riding up on ball bearings.
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Old 07-11-2007, 02:45 PM   #9
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Now I'm back where I started!
45 and not 65 as stated on the tire HowieE?
80% inflated doesn't seem that bad then.
I was going to go out and buy an air compressor tonight to fill up my tires.
Now I'm gonna have to read a couple of more suggestions
It sure is tough when you're a newbie who knows nothing about cars/trucks and trailers.
Thanks for the info
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Old 07-11-2007, 03:14 PM   #10
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let's take the 80% issue out of the picture that was a dumb statement by the dealer, you mean he figured 80% of what?

How much air is really in the tire?

What is the max psi stamped on the tire?

What is the max load stamped on the tire?

Last what is the GVW of the trailer on the metal tag either on the side or front of the trailer

Until we know that no one can tell you 100% what tire pressure is correct.

Also what speed do you think you'll travel?

If you plan on doing upto 75mph you need to add 10psi to the total from a chart.

Wasn't that simple, nice thing is you only need to do this jazz once.
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Old 07-11-2007, 03:15 PM   #11
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Temperature rise really changes inflation pressures. Inflation standards still are a great question. I thought I really had this covered as well until on my last trip out two weeks ago. I stated out at exact 45psi recommended pressure on a cool morning. I checked the pressure 50 miles out in sunny weather and was surprised to find +55psi. This has changed my approach to inflation and on-the-road adjustment.
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Old 07-11-2007, 03:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millvalleyca
Now I'm back where I started!
45 and not 65 as stated on the tire HowieE?
yes u r back at the begining...

which is 2 SEARCH some of the 100s of posts on this topic...

it has all been said b4 and in clearer terms i suspect.

here is JUST ONE...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...ict-19865.html

does your trailer weight the same thing as howieEs unit?

his running at 45psi is foolish UNLESS he's weighed the trailer and knows 45psi fits with the inflation/load tables...

have you weighed the unit yet millva' ?

'load appropriate' inflation is only safe if...
-you know how much the thing weights
-you keep on top of inflation pressures with frequent checks
-you travel at modest speeds.

it's been written many times..

THE SINGLE MOST COMMON CAUSE OF TIRE FAILURE IS UNDER INFLATION.

for the average user the safest thing to do is inflate to max/sidewall pressure listings.

and check pressures before each trip.

so millvalley either get really 'into it' or follow the safest approach and use max psi...

lastly...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE
and I would have little or no control over the trailer in rain as the trailer would be riding up on ball bearings.
this is another common belief that is patently incorrect.

grip is derived from a combination of parameters, like rubber compound, side wall flex, aspect ratio, contact patch and so on.

lowering pressure doesn't INCREASE grip, especially in wet conditions...

lowering pressure enough to enlarge the contact patch REDUCES grip in several ways and may cause the tire to hydroplane...

control in cross winds, semi bow waves and with BRAKING are all negatively affected by lowering tire air pressure.

in theory 'grip' from a pnuematic tire is simply R*mu,
where mu is the co-efficient of friction 4 the tire &
R the reaction force between the tire and ground.

ribs, water channels, and side wall affect reaction forces and are all important for wet/snow handling.

in the simplest terms...

most tires have an "optimum contact patch"
that 'pushes' the rubber compound into the road surface...
lowering pressure enough to enlarge the contact patch DECREASES the push into the roadway.
so 'grip' per area is reduced....


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Old 07-11-2007, 03:37 PM   #13
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Never trust anyone who says it will ride better with less then the specified PSI. Most new Airstreams with dual axles use Goodyear Marathon tires. I believe I read in my Airstream manual to keep them at 65 PSI. I usually set them early in the morning when cool (which is 80+ in Arizona right now). Get yourself a good tire gauge and remember it is worse to under inflate (builds up heat) then it is to slightly over inflate (harsher ride, more wear).
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Old 07-11-2007, 03:38 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE
Tire pressure is not a hard thing once you have found the manufactures inflation chart. Here is the chart for Goodyear 225 75 R 15
http://www.goodyear.com/rv/pdf/rv_inflation.pdf
While it is generaly accepted that a given tire size, independent of manufacture, would carry the same pressure per load it is a good thing to get the manufactures chart to be sure. Don't expect the tire store to have the answer as most of them have never heard of an inflation chart.

Every manufacture has this chart published for thier tires and you are well advised to use it.

With my tri axle I inflate to 45 lbs. ,not the 65 as noted as the MAX. on the tire sidewall. If I inflated to 65 lbs. the rivets would be flying of the walls and I would have little or no control over the trailer in rain as the trailer would be riding up on ball bearings.
I couldn't agree more! Weigh the trailer and inflate the tires accordingly - which, incidentally, for the 2000 30' Excella, complies very nicely with Airstream's recommendation of 50 psi (---which was originally based on using load range "D" tires. I recently switched to load range "E" tires, due to lack of availability of the "D's," however, I still run at 50 psi. As for my truck, if I inflated the rear duallies to their maximum pressure I might just as well throw the tires away and ride on the rims! By actual scale weight determination, I run the duallies at 50 psi running solo and 55 psi with the trailer in tow. I run the front tires at 65 psi, again determined by scale weight. A single rear tire still has more than ample capacity to sustain a blowout on the other tire. I could go lower than 50 psi, however Goodyear recommends a minimum inflation of 45 psi. With over 55,000 miles on the truck (---and the rear set of tires) the duals demonstrate almost a perfect wear pattern. I've only recently (---this summer) switched to a special set of front tires, that Goodyear just came out with, in order to prevent the known "scalping" problem with the dually that has already cost me two sets of front tires. The tires are expensive (over $250 each) but so far I'm very pleased with their performance. I discussed this elsewhere in another topic.
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Old 07-11-2007, 04:18 PM   #15
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I would like to offer, as food for thought, that "failure due to underinflation" does not mean, IMHO, inflation at less than the maximum inflation stamped on the tire. If the chart for my tires shows that, based on the scale weight, the correct inflation should be 55 psi, then I would not be underinflated unless I chose to run the tires at less than 55 psi. If I ran the tire at 60 psi, and the maximum psi allowed was 65 psi, I would, by no means be "underinflated." This does not change, or cause me to question, the statement that "---most tire failures are due to underinflation."
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Old 07-11-2007, 04:33 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millvalleyca
Now I'm back where I started!
45 and not 65 as stated on the tire HowieE?
80% inflated doesn't seem that bad then.
I was going to go out and buy an air compressor tonight to fill up my tires.
Now I'm gonna have to read a couple of more suggestions
It sure is tough when you're a newbie who knows nothing about cars/trucks and trailers.
Thanks for the info
Sorry if I left you in confused state.

What I failed to mention in my last post is the fact that in order to have your tires properly inflated you have to know the weight of the trailer as you are using it. This may differ significantly from the Manufactures sticker depending on how you have loaded it. In order to know the weight you have to have the trailer weighed, this can be done at any truck stop.

Once you have this information go to your tire manufactures web site and look at the inflation chart for you tire and weight.

I know several have posted that I am off base with this position but I trust after you look at a manufactures chart you will agree with what I have posted. Remember those tire companies have large engineer staffs and even larger legal departments and they would not publish this information if they did not have faith in it.

By the way the sticker on my truck calls for a tire pressure of 80 lbs. but with the scale weight the front axle is set at 45 lbs and the rear at 55lbs
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Old 07-11-2007, 04:40 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cracker
I would like to offer, as food for thought, that "failure due to under inflation" does not mean, IMHO, inflation at less than the maximum inflation stamped on the tire. If the chart for my tires shows that, based on the scale weight, the correct inflation should be 55 psi, then I would not be under inflated unless I chose to run the tires at less than 55 psi. If I ran the tire at 60 psi, and the maximum psi allowed was 65 psi, I would, by no means be "under inflated." This does not change, or cause me to question, the statement that "---most tire failures are due to under inflation."
You are correct to a point. If you know your trailer's weight you can determine the proper inflation pressures to carry that weight. The unknown factor is speed and the faster the tire turns the more the weight capacity is reduced.

Consider the fact that with a tandem axle Airstream, you are advised that you can tow with one of the tires removed.....but also note they give you a maximum speed of 45 mph. Why? Well one reason is a control issue, the other is that the remaining tire has the ability to carry the additional load at reduced speeds.

The problem with the "good old boy advice" that you can tow at 80% pressure when unloaded may or may not be true. I'll bet you an Airstream that if you pulled away and blew a tire that that dealer would not stand behind that 80% statement. They probably would deny even making that statement.

It may be valid for your particular trailer if you know the weight and speed you are towing at and how that relates to the tire's load capacity. But if you are like most of us, you don't have a scale at home and you probably can't get to a roadside scale with cold tires. My feeling is why guess? I'll fill 'em to 65 and if they blow, at least I'll know it wasn't due to my inattention to tire pressure.

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Old 07-11-2007, 06:11 PM   #18
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I want to correct an error I made in Post #14 when I said the original tires on my Excella were Load Range "D" and I switched to Load Range "E." In truth, the original tires were Load Range "C" and I switched to Load Range "D." The maximum inflation pressure for the C's was 50 psi - which is exactly what Airstream recommended - and what the capacity of the trailer is based on - i.e. - 4,000 lbs/axle, or 8,300 lbs net. When I switched to the D's I continued to use the 50 psi recommendation since the load capacity for either rated tire is the same at 50 psi - and I know by actual scale weight that the net load on the pair of axles is 7,400 lbs when loaded for the road and properly hitched to the truck. Incidentally, my hitch weight, using a Sherline scale is 900 lbs, for a total load of 8,300 lbs, or exactly the design rating of the trailer.

As for the truck, the scale weight for the rear axle is 4,900 lbs, or 1,225 lbs per tire if evenly divided. I gave the inflation values I use previously. If I ran the rear load range "E" tires up to their maximum 80 psi, two tires would carry my present loaded weight - however, even at that pressure those two tires would not carry the rear axle design load of the GMC dually. In other words, if one of the dual tires blow out with a full load (---as specified by GMC) the remaining tire will not carry the load at normal highway speeds. I'm trusting, that GM has calculated that there is enough safety factor in the tire capacity to allow me to slow down and stop - or limp to the nearest tire center.

Whew! Excuse all the long-winded explanation - and pity my wife! She's all-too-often my only ear.
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Old 07-11-2007, 08:01 PM   #19
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When we bought our 23 we noticed it had P rated 235 X 75 X 15 Michelin Tires branded as a Sears. I took one to Sears for an opinion. Apparently they were over 12 years old and look fairly good. The PO towed a lot.

We all know the story about how a P rated tire can be forced off the rim by performing a tight, slow turn. Just wondering..... True or False?? Has anyone acually had or heard of a P rated tire falling off a rim?

When you think about it a P rated tire could be perfect for a Vintage Airstream. The 35lb pressure is nice and the larger footprint would increase stopping distances. More rubber contact on the road.

P rated tires in most cases are reliable compared with the problematic ST tires.
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Old 07-12-2007, 08:49 AM   #20
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Quote:
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- however, even at that pressure those two tires would not carry the rear axle design load of the GMC dually. In other words, if one of the dual tires blow out with a full load (---as specified by GMC) the remaining tire will not carry the load at normal highway speeds. I'm trusting, that GM has calculated that there is enough safety factor in the tire capacity to allow me to slow down and stop - or limp to the nearest tire center.
Interestingly enough I learned at a tire safety seminar that I attended, most people don't realize that the weight capacity of the tires mounted in a dually configuration is less than twice the rating of the two individual tires. Apparently the inside tire always runs hotter. I have a tire inflation chart for Michelin RV tires used on motor homes that has a qualifying column that shows the reduced capacity of a tire when it is used on the inside wheel of a dually configuration.

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