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Old 09-16-2015, 10:31 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by SSquared View Post
Tireman, regarding ST vs. P and LT tires:

I just read FMVSS 139. It requires tires to pass certain tests. It applies to P and LT tires in load ranges C, D, and E. It does not apply to ST tires, but refers to FMVSS 109 for ST tires. 109 defines similar tests, but uses lowers speeds for the tests.

I'm not sure I understand the documents I found. Is 109 valid for today's ST tires? Do these standards together say that P and LT tires are required to pass more stringent tests that ST tires are?
Yes the test requirements for P and LT type tires (139 etc)are more stringent than for ST type (109).
In 2000 - 2006 time frame the test requirements for P & LT were upgraded but it appears that resistance from the RV industry ( tire suppliers and RV assemblers) prevented the requirements for ST from also being upgraded ( You do understand how our politics works as it relates to lobbying vs actual votes by elected officials.)

IMO Increased standards would have requires improved design and testing which costs money so it appears that it was less expensive for the industry to spend money convincing Congress that improved standards were not needed than to improve the quality of the tires delivered to consumers.

Now recently a few tire companies have decided that it is in their best interest to make better quality tires. One of the easiest ways to see if a tire is "better" is to see if it carries a "Speed Symbol". Tire Rack has a good post on what this means but basically the Letter "L" or higher would IMO indicate that the tire is better for RV use than tires without a Speed Symbol.

Mow it is VERY IMPORTANT that you not assume that the higher letters seen on many tires such as "R" or "S" etc mens it is OK to travel at those speeds.
A number of tire companies place a 75 mph MAX for speed in RV application no matter the letter on the tire so I STRONGLY suggest that you consider 75 mph the same for tires as you would RPM redline for your engine. Lower means longer engine life and lower speed than 75 means longer tire life and safer highway travel.
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Old 09-16-2015, 10:35 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Bill M. View Post
I am not sure there is a tire that is "less than a ST type tire".

I also do not understand that statement. Less than what?

Lower weight?
Lower cost?
Lower load capacity?
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Old 09-16-2015, 10:39 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by tjdonahoe View Post
On my big trucks we use steer axle tires on the trailers , my marathons have 18,000 miles on our 13 31' classic they are doing fine,with 7720 lbs on the two axles, : I don't like any Chinese tires, I wouldn't put them on my pickup nor on my Kenworth, when the time comes i will probably go with 16 " michelins....
Interesting. Which tire plant built your tires? You can "de-code" that info from the first two characters of the DOT serial.
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Old 09-16-2015, 10:44 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by m.hony View Post
My Goodyear Marathons all 4 failed on my '13 Classic 30.
Granted, I might have towed my trailer 30,000 miles, but it wasn't the tread life. The bad, separated tires still have a lot of tread left. I just don't think any ST tire will last over 3 years.
I switched to 16" wheels and Firestone TransForce HT LT225/75R16 tires because I could not justify the price of Michelins.
My tires typically dry rot with 7/32 tread depth left.


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Sounds like you were a victim of "Interply Shear of RV tires"
seen on multi-axle trailers.
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Old 09-16-2015, 06:00 PM   #75
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The purpose of ST tires is supposed to be to have sidewalls strong enough to handle shear. It may work in theory or on paper, but not so much in reality. That is the sales pitch every tire store gives for ST tires. No, thank you!


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Old 09-16-2015, 11:32 PM   #76
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Tires are like a lot of other things. First, over time they have changed, and second, you largely get what you pay for. When radials were a new innovation, they were not used in heavy-duty, high-shear missions because the sidewalls couldn't handle it. A high-quality light to medium truck radial now is quite capable of handling the stress, and will perform far better than a bias-ply. Airstream equips the Eddie Bauer with 16", "Q" rated radials that are capable of speeds up to 99mph. I recognize that is a heck of a lot faster than any of us want to pull our AS, but... As we were traveling across eastern Colorado on two lane roads, we got behind a slooow truck. As it went up and down hills, the speed ranged from 20 mph to 50. More, we had a line of cars behind us that was getting rather impressive, and nowhere to pull off. We finally came to a relatively long, straight, level area and proceeded to pass. Just as we were fully committed, a car came out of a side road, turned toward us and things got dicey. There was no going back as the cars behind us had already filled up behind the truck, so it was go or die. I used all the torque that Duramax could generate and we got around the truck (which of course was speeding up at this point) and back in the lane with some room to spare. In the midst of all of this I glanced at the digital speedometer. We were going over 90mph. Frankly, I am one happy camper that I was using tires rated to that speed and higher.

I have mentioned this elsewhere, but a good friend of ours lost his wife to a blown tire on an RV. I had recommended Michelins to him but he liked Goodyears and as he firmly noted, were far less expensive. After his wife was killed, he sued, and in discovery found that Goodyear engineers had written memo after memo warning that the performance Goodyear was advertising put the tire in a possible failure condition. He won the lawsuit with a gag-settlement. I would guess that Goodyear fixed that issue, but RV tires are notorious for blowing out.

How many of us have had two tires blow on our personal vehicle on a trip? Probably no one reading this has had that happen since the upgrade of P and LT standards. RV tires, on the other hand, were exempted from the standards after much lobbying. As a result, RV blowouts are as commonplace as passenger blowouts were twenty years ago.

In my lengthy search and research on trailer-caused accidents, blowouts were a leading cause of trailer "snaking" as the academic papers call it. Number one cause was rear loading, with a cargo basket on the back of the trailer cause number 1. Tire failure was right up there though. Once that tire disintegrates, it can cause a jam on a dual axle trailer and lockup one side. That is a surefire way to have a trailer take over the controls from the towing vehicle.

I know I am paranoid, but nothing but top of the line Michelins will go on my Airstream. If I can't afford high quality tires, I need to sell it. I came far, far too close to being smeared all over the road because I didn't do my homework. Quoth the raven, "Nevermore!"
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Old 09-17-2015, 07:59 AM   #77
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Mr Loden you had no business on the wrong side of the road doing 90 mph because you were uncomfortable I the right lane, an aquaintance did the same thing, the lead car was slowing to turn left, she did and got broadsided and almost died, :
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Old 09-17-2015, 11:24 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by m.hony View Post
The purpose of ST tires is supposed to be to have sidewalls strong enough to handle shear. It may work in theory or on paper, but not so much in reality. That is the sales pitch every tire store gives for ST tires. No, thank you!


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Interply Shear is a belt ply issue not a sidewall issue.

Most sidewall failures called "Blowout" by many are actually just Run Low Flex Failures like this


Belt separations like this

and then turn into this



can be made much worse due to the unique loading due to TT suspension design.

Sorry but I don't know of actual tire engineers working as tire salesmen at Quick-E-Mart Cheap tire Emporium.
so I don't expect much real engineering knowledge to come from them.
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Old 09-17-2015, 01:20 PM   #79
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Interply shear shows itself close to where the tread meets the sidewall- at least in the case of my tires.
It doesn't really matter. I don't intend to ever have any more ST tires.


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Old 09-17-2015, 01:23 PM   #80
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My tires were never run low.
The ST tires are just not good quality, long lasting tires.
It's a fact as far as I can see after ST tire failure on 2 campers.
Accept. Adapt. Adjust. Move on-
With 16" wheels, LT tires, TPMS, and Centramatic balancers-
Headache/problem gone-


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Old 09-17-2015, 02:51 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
Interesting. Which tire plant built your tires? You can "de-code" that info from the first two characters of the DOT serial.
Michelins, says right on the sidewall, MADE IN THE USA , I went out and looked.
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Old 09-18-2015, 11:09 AM   #82
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QUOTE:
[Posted by: tjdonahoe
On: 09-17-2015 07:59 AM

Mr Loden you had no business on the wrong side of the road doing 90 mph because you were uncomfortable I the right lane, an aquaintance [sic] did the same thing, the lead car was slowing to turn left, she did and got broadsided and almost died, :]

Tidahoe, I assure you that I agree with you about driving 90mph, on either side of the road. The only reason I was going that fast was that a person pulled onto the highway in front of me and the only way out was to accelerate and get in front of that truck. That was the one and only time I have ever passed a vehicle on a two lane highway while towing our AS, and well may be the last.

My normal behavior when I get a flock of cars behind me when towing is to find a place where I can pull off the road and let them by. Unfortunately, sometimes, there are roads where there are no places to do that for a long, long, way.

The message was that knowing that the tires on the AS are capable of far more than I would have expected to ever have put them through was a good thing.
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Old 09-18-2015, 12:54 PM   #83
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Be patient, don't pass. Please.
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