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07-01-2016, 02:15 PM
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#1
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Rivet Master
1990 25' Excella
Sisters
, Oregon
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
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Stressing tires with sharp turns
I've read enough about tires (and hitches) here to last me a lifetime. So I thought it would be fun to have another tire thread.
Extremely sharp turns, as in backing up, put a lot of stress on tires as they pivot and grind as opposed to roll. Has there been any discussion here about that? Maybe some of the tire failures are caused by excessive wear due to frequent sharp turns? Maybe some tires are tougher and don't wear as much under those conditions?
Cheers,
John
P.S. I'm trying to get a few more miles out of the Omni Trails (whatever those are) that came with my trailer when I bought it before I switch to Michelins. As a longtime Porsche enthisiast it's hard not to favor Michelins, although I'll probably go with the 15" ones.
__________________
John Audette
Air Cooled Porsche Specialist -
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less traveled. ~ Robert Frost
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07-01-2016, 02:50 PM
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#2
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Rivet Master
2014 25' Flying Cloud
Cuddebackville
, New York
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,333
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Yes they scrub in those tight maneuvers, but I'm not so sure it is problematic stress. I do think that's why they no longer do tri-axle models, however. I think Dexter says it's a no-no.
__________________
2014 25' Flying Cloud Rear Twin
2019 Ford Expedition Platinum
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07-01-2016, 03:02 PM
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#3
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Rivet Master
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,721
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Wouldn't be a problem if Airstream would switch from tandem axles to single axle/dual wheels.
You could buy those plastic extended fenders like on the old chevy pickups. 8,000 lb Torflex axle with disk brakes should be fine.
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07-01-2016, 03:14 PM
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#4
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Rivet Master
1974 Argosy 26
Morrill
, Nebraska
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,014
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Duals would mean less room inside or a skinnier coach to stay within the 8'6" max width.
I will take tandem axles over dual tires any day. Single axle trailers tend to sway more than tandems.
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07-01-2016, 04:07 PM
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#5
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4 Rivet Member
1991 25' Excella
Stanfield
, Oregon
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 317
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Mine leaves some nice tire marks backing it into my driveway.
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07-02-2016, 11:57 AM
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#6
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4 Rivet Member
1977 31' Sovereign
Lynnwood
, Washington
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John&Vicki
Extremely sharp turns, as in backing up, put a lot of stress on tires as they pivot and grind as opposed to roll.
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Trailer tires, together with spindles, are engineered to work "in tandem" to flex laterally.
What's important is that you not park with tires in "flexed" position. So before you park and "call it a day", roll your rig a few forward and/or backward so tires (and spindles) can straighten themselves out.
Tom
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07-02-2016, 03:03 PM
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#7
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4 Rivet Member
1967 26' Overlander
Spartanburg
, South Carolina
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John&Vicki
I've read enough about tires (and hitches) here to last me a lifetime. So I thought it would be fun to have another tire thread.
Extremely sharp turns, as in backing up, put a lot of stress on tires as they pivot and grind as opposed to roll. Has there been any discussion here about that? Maybe some of the tire failures are caused by excessive wear due to frequent sharp turns? Maybe some tires are tougher and don't wear as much under those conditions?
Cheers,
John
P.S. I'm trying to get a few more miles out of the Omni Trails (whatever those are) that came with my trailer when I bought it before I switch to Michelins. As a longtime Porsche enthisiast it's hard not to favor Michelins, although I'll probably go with the 15" ones.
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That is precisely why ST tires are made with stronger sidewalls and my reason for running only GYM's on my 26' Overlander.
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07-02-2016, 04:23 PM
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#8
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4 Rivet Member
2006 25' Safari
Signal Mountain
, Tennessee
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 450
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Because of the pivoting action, it is much easier to back a tandem axle trailer than a single axle trailer. The single axle unit will roll around a point thus taking much more room to turn. In our business we deal with all kinds of truck and trailer situations. Never heard of it being a problem.
__________________
Don
'06 Safari 25 LS
'18 GMC 2500HD Duramax/Allison
TN,”Greenest State in the Land of the Free”.Davy Crocket
" America is not a place;it's a road." Mark Twain
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07-02-2016, 04:25 PM
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#9
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Rivet Master
2015 25' Flying Cloud
2016 30' Flying Cloud
Blenheim Ontario
, Ontario
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,263
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That's why you inflate the tires to max. Shown on the sidewalls; to give them some support in flexion.
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07-02-2016, 08:34 PM
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#10
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Rivet Master
2012 23' FB International
Woodstock
, Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,423
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Bottom line: ST tires are made to handle that..Not so sure about LT tires
JCW
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07-02-2016, 09:11 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
2017 30' Classic
Anna Maria
, Florida
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob D
That is precisely why ST tires are made with stronger sidewalls and my reason for running only GYM's on my 26' Overlander.
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Yup, they do have Super Beefy sidewalls unfortunately they forget to glue the threads on the same beefy way. My sidewall was like new when the thread peeled of and beat the crap out of the side of our Airstream.
And that is my reason for never ever running GYMs on our trailer again.
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07-02-2016, 10:32 PM
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#12
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Rivet Master
2012 30' Flying Cloud
San Antonio
, Texas
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 682
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Frank, what year tires did you have that failed. There were a number of the mid 2000s era ST tires that did have problems. GYMs were among trailer tires that had a number of failures then. I thought, however that from approx 2010 and later those ST problems had been corrected. In fact I wonder if any one has real data that covers ST tire reliability for the last 5 years or so.
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07-03-2016, 02:37 PM
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#13
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yuppie cowboy
2012 30' Classic
Star
, Idaho
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 7
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Stressing tires
Ever notice how big rigs often have lift axles. Beyond scrubbing the tires you also break the bands (you don't realize it until later) then you have a catastrophic tire failure with a perfectly good looking tire. As a riveter I am also a owner of over the road trucks and semi trailers, and this is a all to common very expensive problem. Just imagine cranking your A S over a curb on a tight turn maybe while parking or getting out of a place you should not have been.
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07-03-2016, 04:31 PM
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#14
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Rivet Master
2007 23' Safari SE
San Diego
, California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob D
That is precisely why ST tires are made with stronger sidewalls and my reason for running only GYM's on my 26' Overlander.
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Agreed... and why I replaced our GYMs with GYMs when they were due for changing at 5 years of age, 4 years ago and they're still fine.
Additional info: " A marathon experience".
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07-04-2016, 09:33 AM
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#15
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Rivet Master
2017 30' Classic
Anna Maria
, Florida
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard L.
Frank, what year tires did you have that failed. There were a number of the mid 2000s era ST tires that did have problems. GYMs were among trailer tires that had a number of failures then. I thought, however that from approx 2010 and later those ST problems had been corrected. In fact I wonder if any one has real data that covers ST tire reliability for the last 5 years or so.
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They were 2012 tires on a 2013 - 30' International.
The tires sat around over a year somewhere before being installed.
Looking at how my new Michelin LT tires behave on the trailer and also on my TV I believe the ST tires are obsolete. Non ST Radial tire sidewall flexing is far more demanding than what an ST tire sidewall is subjected to. The way an ST tire has to be made is why they are prone to thread separation. They should stop making them and the old regulation be eliminated. Let the market place competition provide the best product.
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07-05-2016, 08:14 AM
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#16
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Rivet Master
2013 30' Classic
Greenwood
, Mississippi
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 12,111
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When parking, you are moving so slow that the stress on tires is probably minimal.
There is stress on car tires in tight turns.
All tires leave nice black streaks in tight turns.
__________________
2013 Classic 30 Limited
2007 Silver Toyota Tundra Crew Max Limited 5.7 iForce
2006 Vivid Black Harley-Davidson Road King Classic
1999 Black Nissan Pathfinder LE
TAC #MS-10
WBCCI #1811, Region 6, Unit 56
Airforums #70955
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07-05-2016, 10:33 AM
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#17
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4 Rivet Member
2016 25' Flying Cloud
Holly Springs
, Mississippi
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 426
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Seems to me that Frank has the logical answer. With very stiff ST sidewalls, turning moments put much of the load on the treads thus the treads are more likely to get scuffed loose. With LT and P tires, having more flexible sidewalls, the turning moment shared by the sidewall and the tread.
The counterpoint may be that stiff sidewall reduce sway?
__________________
Bob
2016 FC 25' FB twin
2013 F-150 Lariat CrewCab 3.5 EB 4X4 3.55 axle
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07-05-2016, 01:42 PM
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#18
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Rivet Master
2013 30' Classic
Greenwood
, Mississippi
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 12,111
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No perceivable difference in sway from ST tires to LT tires on my trailer-
Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums
__________________
2013 Classic 30 Limited
2007 Silver Toyota Tundra Crew Max Limited 5.7 iForce
2006 Vivid Black Harley-Davidson Road King Classic
1999 Black Nissan Pathfinder LE
TAC #MS-10
WBCCI #1811, Region 6, Unit 56
Airforums #70955
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07-06-2016, 10:05 AM
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#19
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Rivet Master
2017 30' Classic
Anna Maria
, Florida
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m.hony
No perceivable difference in sway from ST tires to LT tires on my trailer-
Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums
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That is exactly my experience. I run my LT tires at 52 psi on our 30' International. But the ride is much smoother .
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07-06-2016, 11:35 AM
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#20
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Rivet Master
2013 30' Classic
Greenwood
, Mississippi
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 12,111
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Yes. Things on the table or counter stay there with the LT tires.
When you get there, things in general are where you put them/haven't moved.
A 10-ply truck tire still has a plenty stiff sidewall.
__________________
2013 Classic 30 Limited
2007 Silver Toyota Tundra Crew Max Limited 5.7 iForce
2006 Vivid Black Harley-Davidson Road King Classic
1999 Black Nissan Pathfinder LE
TAC #MS-10
WBCCI #1811, Region 6, Unit 56
Airforums #70955
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