Sharp Turns: Blowout Cause?

[John&Vicki]

I had to turn sharply in order to get into a tight spot the other day and I could feel a lot of resistence from the tires on my dual axle trailer. It started me wondering about how this might over time significantly weaken the sidewalls which could lead to blowouts.

I'm currently running 15" steel wheels with some off-brand tires that I don't trust. They were new when I bought the trailer a couple of years ago and have about 12,000 miles on them. I'm planning on upgrading to 16" rims and Michelins (I'm in love with Michelins after many years of driving Porches at high speeds), but I'm trying to milk some more miles out from the current configuration. I'm trying to baby them as much as possible. Should I be concerned about making tight turns backing up?

Thanks for your help!

Cheers,
John

[J. Morgan]

The slow speed turns wont hurt them provided it is not simultaneously up a curb.,

It just scrubs off tread life.

I have read on the Discount Tire website that most ST tires are designed to last about 12,000 miles.

Kinda pathetic.

[Action]

Turns with a multi-axle trailer.

The pivot point with a multi-axle trailer is not any axle. Unlike a single axle trailer or a single axle car or truck. In turning with a multi-axle trailer all tires will drag (scrub) around a turn. The sharper the turn the more the tires are dragged. This does scub off rubber from the thread and wears out the tire tread faster than if you only drove in a straight line. (Which is not real world) This also flexes the sidewall much more so than not turning or turning with a single axle trailer.

ST tires are designed to with stand that kind of flexing assuming the tires are inflated correctly and the correct tire size it matched to the load.

Is it ideal, not exactly and yet the world that tires operate in is far from ideal. Going slow with properly inflated tires, sized to the load is likely the only factors that you can control. Blowouts seldom occur from turning sharp assuming the tires are in good condition. (No previous damage to the tire)

>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

[Tireman9]

The answer based on tire technology is that multi axle trailers place significantly higher Interply Shear whenever turning (Speed is not part of the calculations)
If you don't understand Interply Shear you can Google "Interply Shear tires" to learn more.

If you don't want to read about it just know that this shear force is a force trying to tear the belts apart and off the tire carcass

[tjdonahoe]

It is also very bad on big truck tires during a sharp turn , especially with a 3 axle trailer .

[PaulnGina]

I had added these pictures to a thread I started about a recent outing, but they can show here the scrubbing action that goes on in a tight turn. This was from an Avion 34W, a 3-axle trailer. I have to do a u-turn in the back yard to head out to the street.

[Alphonse]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

The answer based on tire technology is that multi axle trailers place significantly higher Interply Shear whenever turning (Speed is not part of the calculations)
If you don't understand Interply Shear you can Google "Interply Shear tires" to learn more.

If you don't want to read about it just know that this shear force is a force trying to tear the belts apart and off the tire carcass

I Googled "Interply Shear" and read the first return. Turns out it is a very good blog by a gent named Tireman9! It has an excellent description of Interply Shear along with photos to demonstrate the failure in the tire integrity as a result.

Big take away for me is and I quote from the blog, "the best recommendation I can give to trailer owners is to run the inflation molded on the tire sidewall."

This is a very good advice based on a sound argument to inflate to the spec. of the tire. This answers a long standing question here on the forum of what pressure to inflate your tires. On a double or triple axle trailer because of Interply Shear, you need to have them pumped to the spec.

Thanks Tireman for such a good blog. I highly recommend my friends here on the board read it.

[KathleenBenk]

A few years back, heading to Enota Mpountain Retreat in Georgie, we accidentally got on a road going through the Smokeys. Hairpin after hairpin turn, white knuckles and a stress headache ensued. We camped for a week and had a blowout on the way home.
Actually, I am surprised all the tires didn't blow. Luckily for us, when we pulled off there was a tire shop that found a used tire exactly like the one that had blown. Prayers answered.

[jcanavera]

Under inflation can increase the likely hood of breaking the bead of the tire and rim which will obviously cause instant deflation. I saw this at a campground where a guy was backing into a site and watched him roll the tire right off the wheel. He stopped put on his spare, proceeded in his back and promptly broke the bead on the spare.

Part of backing correctly is to try to keep your angle of back in to a minimum this lessens the shearing force on the trailer. The key to this is pulling your trailer far enough away from the campsite entrance prior to you back in. It really makes the entire process much easier and minimizes that shearing on the trailer tires.

Jack

[Action]

The better strategy is proper inflation.

>>>>>>>>>>Action

[Airborne6]

While speaking of inflation, we are currently in Moab Utah which has a temperature variance of around 40 degrees from 3 AM versus 3PM. Out of curiosity I checked air pressure in the morning and again in the afternoon on both our 23D and my Tundra. The max difference between the cooler morning and the hot afternoon was 5psi. That was just setting at the camp site and not rolling down the very hot roads. I would imagine one must not only check psi before starting out for the day but also throughout the day especially while towing in hot climates.

[Action]

Adjusting tire pressure after a tire has warmed up from use or after the day has heated up the tire in not recommended from what I understand. The rise in temp and pressure are accounted for in a cold tire pressure spec.

Check in the morning, adjust if needed and leave alone for the duration of the day.
>>>>>>>>>Action

[Alphonse]

Originally Posted by Airborne6

While speaking of inflation, we are currently in Moab Utah which has a temperature variance of around 40 degrees from 3 AM versus 3PM. Out of curiosity I checked air pressure in the morning and again in the afternoon on both our 23D and my Tundra. The max difference between the cooler morning and the hot afternoon was 5psi. That was just setting at the camp site and not rolling down the very hot roads. I would imagine one must not only check psi before starting out for the day but also throughout the day especially while towing in hot climates.

Thanks for the info on pressure differences in Moab. As you point out it is important to keep the pressure up.

I recommend that your best solution is to get a tire pressure monitoring system (TPMS) and put on your rig. I used to fret over when to check, etc. Once the system was in place it gave me great piece of mind. There are many to chose from and that is the subject of many threads here on the forum.

Meanwhile here is a link that may be helpful on the topic:
RV Tire Safety: TPMS

[A W Warn]

Originally Posted by Alphonse

I Googled "Interply Shear" and read the first return. Turns out it is a very good blog by a gent named Tireman9! It has an excellent description of Interply Shear along with photos to demonstrate the failure in the tire integrity as a result.

Big take away for me is and I quote from the blog, "the best recommendation I can give to trailer owners is to run the inflation molded on the tire sidewall."

This is a very good advice based on a sound argument to inflate to the spec. of the tire. This answers a long standing question here on the forum of what pressure to inflate your tires. On a double or triple axle trailer because of Interply Shear, you need to have them pumped to the spec.

Thanks Tireman for such a good blog. I highly recommend my friends here on the board read it.

An exception to this advice: I cannot inflate my tires to the maximum allowed pressure on the sidewall since it would exceed the maximum allowed inflation pressure of my wheels. My E rated tires' sidewall says 80 PSI max. My wheels say 65 PSI max.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by A W Warn

An exception to this advice: I cannot inflate my tires to the maximum allowed pressure on the sidewall since it would exceed the maximum allowed inflation pressure of my wheels. My E rated tires' sidewall says 80 PSI max. My wheels say 65 PSI max.

You need different wheels.

[xrvr]

Thank you!! I have mentioned that in the past and have been ignored. Good info.

[jcanavera]

One thing I have always wondered about is high altitude driving. I remember my first trip to Colorado and the bag of Potato chips that we brought from St. Louis. At we climbed in altitude from Limon Colorado to Denver, we watched that bag of chips swell up. I realized that as we climbed, the air pressure was lowering. The pressure inside the bag of chips remained the same as their fill location, thus with less pressure pushing against the bag, it swelled up.

So taking this thought to tires, the question comes to the same sceneiro. If I were to check the tire pressure would the internal pressure be higher reflecting the lower atmospheric pressure due to altitude? Sort of the same question in reverse, checking tires at cool temps and higher altitudes, when I hit the hot afternoon in Kansas should I be checking tire pressures after coming down to lower altitudes?

Jack

[A W Warn]

Originally Posted by slowmover

You need different wheels.

Your statement is an opinion, not a fact.

The E rated tires' capacity is overkill for my Safari.
Wheels have held up fine in the 16 years they have been rolling.
I'm happy with what I have. YMMV

[slowmover]

Trailer tires are to sidewall max in TT applications. And wheel rating needs to match or preferably slightly exceed tire rating. Tires and wheels need to be a match.

You might want to review what constitutes "fact". Your mismatch is bad practice, but it's your trailer.

[paiceman]

To original poster - If I were you I would replace the tires now, with 12,000 miles on them and an off brand. To me just not worth the possibility of the tires losing it and having an accident.