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Old 10-18-2012, 02:20 PM   #113
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since you've got such an interest in tire pressure i was wondering if you've tried filling the tires with nitrogen? your customary detailed reporting would give it a lot of credibility.
Didn't mean to ignore you, I posted and it didn't take??????

richinny, I can't even figure out air.....and you want nitrogen???????
It'll be an interesting experiment, if we can ever get a logical answer to air.
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Old 10-18-2012, 04:58 PM   #114
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lol, from what i read you should get less variance in the pressure due to temperature. i'm hoping it would make things easier on you :-)
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Old 10-18-2012, 05:30 PM   #115
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[QUOTE=richinny;1217186]lol, from what i read you should get less variance in the pressure due to temperature. i'm hoping it would make things easier on you :-)[/QUOTE

I am not an expert, and I'm too lazy to do the math. However, if this is true, it seems to me it would be a very slight difference. I am certain this slight difference would vary depending on the humidity of the air you inflated the tire with. This has a lot to do with the fact that air is 78.09% nitrogen. If you Google nitrogen in tires, you will find a lot of results, the vast majority dedicated to debunking the benefits. I have no stock in either a air or nitrogen company so I don't care. However I do have a degree in Atmospheric Sciences (Meteorology) so I know a little about how gases work. Some would tell you that I also have a lot of experience in the production of hot air.

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Old 10-18-2012, 05:35 PM   #116
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[QUOTE=w7ts;1217203]
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Originally Posted by richinny View Post
lol, from what i read you should get less variance in the pressure due to temperature. i'm hoping it would make things easier on you :-)[/QUOTE

I am not an expert, and I'm too lazy to do the math. However, if this is true, it seems to me it would be a very slight difference. I am certain this slight difference would vary depending on the humidity of the air you inflated the tire with. This has a lot to do with the fact that air is 78.09% nitrogen. If you Google nitrogen in tires, you will find a lot of results, the vast majority dedicated to debunking the benefits. I have no stock in either a air or nitrogen company so I don't care. However I do have a degree in Atmospheric Sciences (Meteorology) so I know a little about how gases work. Some would tell you that I also have a lot of experience in the production of hot air.

Ken
From what I have read, and know, I tend to agree with you. It is a moneymaker though. They got my 92 year old father with these claims and about $50 of this money. Like he's ever going to drive over 50 mph....and somehow air worked for him for some 75 years!
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:53 PM   #117
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However I do have a degree in Atmospheric Sciences (Meteorology) so I know a little about how gases work. Some would tell you that I also have a lot of experience in the production of hot air.

Ken
I produce a lot of hot air too, and my wife complains about it all the time
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:09 PM   #118
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I produce a lot of hot air too, and my wife complains about it all the time
I think we are talking about opposite ends of the body.
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:08 AM   #119
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Well, I found something. Have no idea as to the credibility of this read. Capriracer....care to share your knowledge as to these temps and how we may interpret them using infrared on the outside of the tire shoulder and using TPMS (both the pressure rise method and stem air temp method)?

Why Temperature?

(is there an error in #2 sub section 3? Shouldn't those be Ferenheit figures, not Celcius?)
Yes, I think there is an error there.

I also think this web site - which is all about trying to sell a TPMS - exaggerates things. I think that tire explosions due to elevated temperatures (auto igniiton) are incredibly rare. I'm not buying their premise.

I think having a tool like this might be helpful in correlating surface temperatures with internal temperatures (and pressures).
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:29 AM   #120
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So what is the target on LTs, if they are different than P metrics?....
There is no "target". There is only a trigger level where action should be taken.

- and no, it isn't different between the 2 types of tires (or any tire, for that matter).

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........And.... why is it common and normal to see a p metric with a 4 psi rise and a cold pressure of 35psi per the placard with no load in the bed running solo?....
I don't think it is. If folks are getting this type of thing, the engineer in me would want to investigate further to make sure this is what it is claimed to be.
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:35 AM   #121
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dznf0g

since you've got such an interest in tire pressure i was wondering if you've tried filling the tires with nitrogen? your customary detailed reporting would give it a lot of credibility.
I saw dzn's response - and I hope folks have seen my thoughts:

Barry's Tire Tech

Just like the guy selling TPMS's, I think nitrogen inflation has been subjected to a bunch of snake oil tactics and claims. There isn't any harm, but there isn't any real advantage either. If you get it free - Great! But it isn't worth paying for.
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:49 AM   #122
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I saw dzn's response - and I hope folks have seen my thoughts:

Barry's Tire Tech

Just like the guy selling TPMS's, I think nitrogen inflation has been subjected to a bunch of snake oil tactics and claims. There isn't any harm, but there isn't any real advantage either. If you get it free - Great! But it isn't worth paying for.
UNLESS....you're driving for a race team and 1/4 psi difference in pressure is the difference between the winner and the first loser. But for a street car, not enough of a benefit, IMO, to even waste the gas to get them topped off, even if it were free.

One other application I would use it for. Antique or collector cars, where they sit in storage or museum for LOOOOONG periods of time. Nitrogen MAY, MAY prolong their display life.
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:52 AM   #123
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There is no "target". There is only a trigger level where action should be taken.

- and no, it isn't different between the 2 types of tires (or any tire, for that matter).



I don't think it is. If folks are getting this type of thing, the engineer in me would want to investigate further to make sure this is what it is claimed to be.

On a variety of comapny cars and truck, unladen, 65 mph, I most all the time see only a 4psi rise from cold ambient on the TPMS readout. Very consistent. Disregarding sun loads and wind direction.
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Old 10-19-2012, 09:15 AM   #124
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I think we are talking about opposite ends of the body.
Oh, I didn't realize you we're talking about your butt.
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Old 10-19-2012, 03:02 PM   #125
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Michelin's response to my warranty question

October 18, 2012


Hello,


Thank you for your email. We welcome the opportunity to serve you.

In regards to the email you sent stating:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your prompt response.
I would appreciate further clarification to one of my original questions. Does Michelin warranty LT tires used for RV trailers?
The reason I am asking this question, I noticed Airstream uses Michelin light truck tires on at least one 2012 model of their trailers. I also looked on Airstream's website and saw that some of their models offered Michelin tires as an option as far back as the 1970's. I find that Airstream offers Michelin tires, as replacements for the original ST tires, at their factory service center.
I assume these tires are adequate to support the loads of these trailers or Airstream would not offer them. What is Michelin's official stance on warranty of a LT (light truck) tire when mounted on a RV trailer? I am considering doing this on my Airstream though I would be purchasing from a local dealer, not the Airstream service center.
Thank you in advance for your response!
---------------------------------------------------------------------



If the RV came original equipment with a ST tire, we do not recommend replacing with a light truck tire as this would be considered a misapplication. There is no warranty for misapplication.

Please let us know if you have additional questions.

Thank you for contacting Michelin.

It is our goal to ensure that your issue has been resolved or your question answered to your satisfaction. If we can assist you further, please respond to this email or call us at 1-800-642-4354 (toll free) between 8:00AM and 8:00PM Eastern Time Monday through Friday or between 8:30AM and 4:30PM Eastern Time on Saturday.

Sincerely,

Consumer Care Department
Certified Michelin Product Expert
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Old 10-19-2012, 03:56 PM   #126
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Alan,

As silly as that reply sounds to me, it doesn't surprise me at all. Now I wonder what Airstream would say about that. According to Michelin's statement, they would stand behind the tires mounted on the Eddie Bauer model, but not the ones the factory provides to replace ST tires. This is particularly strange, because as I understand it the factory will place LT tires on new trailers as an option. Now will those be OK with Michelin?

Ken
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