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Old 06-09-2013, 11:16 AM   #15
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I've been running BF Goodrich P235/75 R15 108T XL on my 27FB like Perry for year and a half. Probably 4-5000 miles on them. They ride smoother (no more popped rivets and stuff seems to stay put in the trailer). 2183 LBS LOAD derated to 1985lb x 4 is still 7940lb and the trailer is rated at 7500. At the scales fully loaded we run about 6000 lb on the trailer tires so we are well within limits. Watching the TPMs the pressure usually varies about 8Lbs between 50 degrees (cold) and 90 degrees (operating on hot pavement). They don't vary in pressure or temps more than the TV tires while running. The rear TV tires get hotter and have the largest pressure rise. I changed the GYM's out based on the documented damage here in the forums. Whether the GYMs are good or not I can't say but they sure do a lot of damage when they fail spectacularly. -Brad
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Old 06-09-2013, 11:33 AM   #16
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"2183 LBS LOAD derated to 1985lb "

Again-WHY are you de-rating the tire?? It does NOT know it is on a trailer and has, I believe, an "S" speed rating which is over 100mph.

Please explain the de-rate premise.

Thanks
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Old 06-09-2013, 12:00 PM   #17
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"2183 LBS LOAD derated to 1985lb "

Again-WHY are you de-rating the tire?? It does NOT know it is on a trailer and has, I believe, an "S" speed rating which is over 100mph.

Please explain the de-rate premise.

Thanks
Sure, Article VI Section D:

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/ruli...re/Final/#ref4

"For the final rule, the agency has also decided to retain the de-rating factor of 1.10 for P-metric tires used on non-passenger car vehicles. For non-passenger car vehicles equipped with P-metric tires, the vehicle normal load shall be not greater than the derated value of 94% of the tire load rating at the vehicle's placard pressure. This de-rating provides a greater load reserve when these tires are installed on vehicles other than passenger cars. For the first time, this final rule requires light trucks to have a specified tire reserve, the same as for passenger cars, under normal loading conditions."

Brad
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Old 06-09-2013, 12:28 PM   #18
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After months of reading tire threads and asking questions, I just ordered 5 Michelin P235 75 15 XL tires for my 6300# Safari 25. Good bye to ST tires.
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Old 06-09-2013, 02:07 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by SuperTrouper View Post
Sure, Article VI Section D:

DOT 49 CFR Part 571 Docket No. NHTSA-03-15400 RIN 2127-AI54

"For the final rule, the agency has also decided to retain the de-rating factor of 1.10 for P-metric tires used on non-passenger car vehicles. For non-passenger car vehicles equipped with P-metric tires, the vehicle normal load shall be not greater than the derated value of 94% of the tire load rating at the vehicle's placard pressure. This de-rating provides a greater load reserve when these tires are installed on vehicles other than passenger cars. For the first time, this final rule requires light trucks to have a specified tire reserve, the same as for passenger cars, under normal loading conditions."

Brad
Thanks, had not seen that before. Now I understand-more government regulation. Everything that was postulated in there is a severe case example. But, it is what it is, thanks for the info.

I will continue to run my "P" metric XL's
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Old 06-09-2013, 02:28 PM   #20
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99% of all passenger tire failures are caused by not checking air pressure and not by overloading. I see it everyday on the way to work. Someone driving 90 with one or more tires that probably have 10psi in them. Or the ones that run temporary spares as full time tires. This is why many new cars have the pressure monitors on them. It is not because it is necessary it is because people are lazy and ignorant and don't check tire pressures. You can't legislate this.

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Old 06-09-2013, 02:45 PM   #21
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Because at 80 psi, the load carrying capacity of the ST tire was 2830#, while the P type tire is 1985#. That's operating the tire at 143% of its rated capacity.

You need to seriously rethink this.
Somebody is not adding correctly. Even derated to 1,985# I have a 2,710# safety margin before reaching the rated capacity of the Michelins. My trailer, loaded, will weigh about 10,000#. Take 800# for tongue weight leaves 9,200#. Six tires derated to 1985# =11,910# My tires will never reach anywhere near there rated load carrying capacity. The ride difference is great. I have run Michelins on all of my cars and trucks for years, and though I know there are other great tires I dare not change because of the quality of ride and longevity of the Michelins.
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Old 06-09-2013, 02:57 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Ridgerunner3 View Post
After months of reading tire threads and asking questions, I just ordered 5 Michelin P235 75 15 XL tires for my 6300# Safari 25. Good bye to ST tires.
I think that you are going to be one happy camper the first time you pull your 6,300# airstream on these super smooth, sidewall flexing, great handling, 7,940# rated Michelins.
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Old 06-09-2013, 09:50 PM   #23
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I know when I put them on my 1997 31' Excella wide body, it made all the difference in the ride. Oh, did I mention this was AFTER I had a Carlisle ST Load Range E tire blow catastrophically and do $7000.00 yes $7000.00 worth of damage to the above mentioned trailer.
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Old 06-09-2013, 09:54 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by SuperTrouper View Post
Sure, Article VI Section D:

DOT 49 CFR Part 571 Docket No. NHTSA-03-15400 RIN 2127-AI54

"For the final rule, the agency has also decided to retain the de-rating factor of 1.10 for P-metric tires used on non-passenger car vehicles. For non-passenger car vehicles equipped with P-metric tires, the vehicle normal load shall be not greater than the derated value of 94% of the tire load rating at the vehicle's placard pressure. This de-rating provides a greater load reserve when these tires are installed on vehicles other than passenger cars. For the first time, this final rule requires light trucks to have a specified tire reserve, the same as for passenger cars, under normal loading conditions."

Brad
Here is what the regulation really says. It's often misunderstood. This is the most current and official document.

Tire selection and rims and motor home/recreation vehicle trailer load carrying capacity information for motor vehicles with a GVWR of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) or less - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration
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Old 06-09-2013, 10:39 PM   #25
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So 4.2.2.1 and 4.2.2.2 say P tires on trailer with no passengers max load divided by 1.1 or 2183lbs=1985lbs right?
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Old 06-09-2013, 10:49 PM   #26
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I stayed with an lt tire because of all the complaints with the g.y.m.'s, but scaled down closer to the original size for my TT, 7.00-15 load c to lt 225/75 r16. "P" tire load ratings are not equal to LT load ratings. The increased height of the center of gravity on trucks decrease the load capacities of P tires by about 10%. The p tires sidewalks aren't as rigid as the lt's. I'm hoping the new lt's on the TT and TV will help minimize the sway.
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Old 06-09-2013, 10:49 PM   #27
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That 1,985 pound load number is correct for the 15" Michelin tire in a derated application.
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:10 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by bwoodtx View Post
Thanks, had not seen that before. Now I understand-more government regulation. Everything that was postulated in there is a severe case example. But, it is what it is, thanks for the info.

I will continue to run my "P" metric XL's
Actually, the derating of P metric tires for Light Truck, van, and trailer usage predates the government regulation by a decade. The government adopted the existing standard.

And to answer the question: The tire does indeed know it is on a trailer. It is being asked to do different things than if it was on a passenger car. (Ok, Ok! Tires are inanimate object and can't "know" anything. Nevertheless, trailer usage is different than usage on a passenger car. )

And lastly:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodum View Post
Somebody is not adding correctly. Even derated to 1,985# I have a 2,710# safety margin before reaching the rated capacity of the Michelins. My trailer, loaded, will weigh about 10,000#. Take 800# for tongue weight leaves 9,200#. Six tires derated to 1985# =11,910# My tires will never reach anywhere near there rated load carrying capacity. The ride difference is great. I have run Michelins on all of my cars and trucks for years, and though I know there are other great tires I dare not change because of the quality of ride and longevity of the Michelins.
The tidbit of information was not part of this thread. So while I apologize for an un-necessary alarm, I was merely acting out of safety concerns.
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