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Old 07-24-2014, 06:19 AM   #127
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Don't know if you read all the particulars about these tires, but they are E rated, have always been run with 75 PSI (with a TPMS so I know), have been driven mostly at 60 to 65 MPH with occasional speeds up to 70 for short periods of time, and have been in use for less than three years. These tires are rated to carry 2680 lbs at 80 PSI, and have been loaded with approximately 1500 lbs., and there are no higher load range tires available......
Steve,

My issue was with the quote and the link. I was not commenting on your situation specifically.

But since you brought it up, I did say a larger tire was also an option. I don't know whether or not the Load Range E was an upgrade or not (The thread is now 9 pages long and I'm not inclined to look through all those pages).

QUOTE=SteveH;1486021]........I bought these tires and wheels for the main purpose of avoiding an instance like this, and if it were just the one, I could understand a fluke event, but now it has been three of the eight that my friend and I bought on the same day..........[/quote]

I'm not going to dispute that a single event might be a fluke - and that three out of eight is even a rarer event, but it is still statistically possible.

What I am arguing is that the failure mechanism was not as described by the article - that going to a larger load carrying capacity REDUCES the risk, but doesn't eliminate it.

I'm sorry you had issues with your tires. But it is possible that you and your friend are just victims of bad luck. If you want an explanation of how it is possible for there to be a 38% failure rate in a small sample size, I can go through it for you.

Oh, and a side comment: Does Steve's experience mean that the idea of using LT tires in place of ST tires doesn't have the merit it used to have?
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Old 07-24-2014, 06:24 AM   #128
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And my post was not about the link either. It was explaining what tires I had, how there were used, and the fact that they are already the largest, most heavy duty rated tires that can be stuffed under an Airstream trailer. This because you suggested, "Increased load carrying capacity by either using a larger tire or using more inflation pressure (which may mean changing to a higher Load Range)."
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Old 07-24-2014, 06:42 AM   #129
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Steve,
Just wondering if you and your friend have filed a report of the failures with the NHTSA? There is that recall of the Michelin tires of the same size. Maybe these BFGs were made in the same time frame in the same factory as the Michelins under recall?
Pure wonderment on my part. Not sharpshooting.
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Old 07-24-2014, 06:49 AM   #130
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Steve,
Just wondering if you and your friend have filed a report of the failures with the NHTSA? There is that recall of the Michelin tires of the same size. Maybe these BFGs were made in the same time frame in the same factory as the Michelins under recall?
Pure wonderment on my part. Not sharpshooting.
Lance, I have not because I've been so busy trying to get everything repaired for a scheduled trip to begin next week. Don't know about Barry, but I doubt it as he was fortunate enough to avoid any significant damage by catching the problem early.

I did contact BFG, which was about as productive as talking to my dog about it. Actually got monetary help from my insurance company for the damages to the trailer. No help on the loss of the tire because I was in a situation where I was 100 miles from a Discount Tire store when it happened, and had to buy a Hankook, which was the only tire I could get, and didn't want to travel that distance with no spare.
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Old 07-24-2014, 07:33 AM   #131
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How I repaired the wheel well damage

This is using ABS glue, fiberglass screen wire, and fiberglass cloth.
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Old 07-24-2014, 07:49 AM   #132
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I have about 500 tires mounted and on the ground right now. Overall modern tire technology is amazing. Tires are better than they have ever been, but every once in a while a person will catch a bad break and get a few that don't last as well as others.

Thats just the way it is.

Even with this many tires on the ground, I don't recall ever trying to warrantee a tire.

That is just me though, I never buy extended warranties either.




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Old 07-24-2014, 09:02 AM   #133
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May have stated this before, but I really don't mind having to replace a tire, and I don't buy the warranty either, but I do mind the damage and time it takes to repair from a blowout.

Even with the amazing modern tire technology we have today, it seems as though to avoid possibility of damage from a blowout we need to replace all tires every two years?

Seems to me the technology is not so amazing.
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Old 07-24-2014, 09:28 AM   #134
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OK, Any LT tire failures to report?

If a person thinks about what tires do day in and day out they are pretty amazing , and they are much better than they used to be.

Fact of life is that there will be defects, only lawyers push the notion that zero defects is even remotely possible.

A warrantee is a device upon which the manufacturer and a the customer agree to share risk. When the agreement expires, it expires.

When a tire comes apart at speed, there is going to be damage, too much rotating mass converted to kinetic energy.

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Old 07-24-2014, 01:32 PM   #135
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Re: SteveH's BFG Commercial TA Blowout Photo

We have several current and former tire engineers, techs and "experts".

Do any of you have any comments on the failure mode on SteveH's BFG Commercial TA blowout photo (see below)?

I have never seen a tire failure like this -- It looks like someone took a Samurai sword and tried to cut it in half...
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Old 07-24-2014, 02:08 PM   #136
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We have several current and former tire engineers, techs and "experts".

Do any of you have any comments on the failure mode on SteveH's BFG Commercial TA blowout photo (see below)?

I have never seen a tire failure like this -- It looks like someone took a Samurai sword and tried to cut it in half...
.
First, I don't like doing failure analyses from photos - particularly a single photo. Not only are there things that I would look for if the tire was right in front of me, but most people don't photograph the details that are important to clarifying things.

That said - and I hope you understand where I am coming from on this - but that split is NOT the important thing. To me the important thing is that the top belt and tread are missing. I'm guessing 360, but I can't tell from the photo.

The second belt is partially missing, but there are wires that span the split, so it seems likely the top belt separated from the bottom belt, and then something happened to cause the split AFTER the top belt peeled off. It could simply be that in the process of the top belt leaving the rest of the tire, that flap of top belt and tread pulled on the bottom belt and caused the split.

It appears that this tire had cap strips, but not a cap ply - that is, there wasn't a full, across the entire width of the belt cap ply, only a layer (or 2) of nylon over the edge of the belts.

In a lot of respects, this failure is fairly typical of a steel belted radial tire.

We have been talking about 3 failures, but are all of them like this one? If not, what did those look like?
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Old 07-24-2014, 02:22 PM   #137
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First, I don't like doing failure analyses from photos - particularly a single photo. Not only are there things that I would look for if the tire was right in front of me, but most people don't photograph the details that are important to clarifying things.

That said - and I hope you understand where I am coming from on this - but that split is NOT the important thing. To me the important thing is that the top belt and tread are missing. I'm guessing 360, but I can't tell from the photo.

The second belt is partially missing, but there are wires that span the split, so it seems likely the top belt separated from the bottom belt, and then something happened to cause the split AFTER the top belt peeled off. It could simply be that in the process of the top belt leaving the rest of the tire, that flap of top belt and tread pulled on the bottom belt and caused the split.

It appears that this tire had cap strips, but not a cap ply - that is, there wasn't a full, across the entire width of the belt cap ply, only a layer (or 2) of nylon over the edge of the belts.

In a lot of respects, this failure is fairly typical of a steel belted radial tire.

We have been talking about 3 failures, but are all of them like this one? If not, what did those look like?
I can add some details....the tread and belt were gone from the tire all the way around. The sequence of events with the tire in the picture were first, there was the bang of the blowout. Second, and only about maybe 10 five seconds later the tread departed the tire (I was watching in the rear view mirror).

My friend who had the other two failures were different, but similar. On the first one he was fortunate enough to get stopped before the tread totally left the carcass of the tire, so he avoided the majority of the damage to his trailer, but he did hear the blowout. I saw a picture of the tire, and the tread was torn loose from the carcass all the way around the tire, but the rubber was still holding it on, on the one side. His second failure was just the separation, and he caught it before it blew out, or came apart.
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Old 07-25-2014, 03:48 AM   #138
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I can add some details....the tread and belt were gone from the tire all the way around. The sequence of events with the tire in the picture were first, there was the bang of the blowout. Second, and only about maybe 10 five seconds later the tread departed the tire (I was watching in the rear view mirror).

My friend who had the other two failures were different, but similar. On the first one he was fortunate enough to get stopped before the tread totally left the carcass of the tire, so he avoided the majority of the damage to his trailer, but he did hear the blowout. I saw a picture of the tire, and the tread was torn loose from the carcass all the way around the tire, but the rubber was still holding it on, on the one side. His second failure was just the separation, and he caught it before it blew out, or came apart.
This is a perfect example of why I don't like doing tire failure analyses without the tire in front of me. One of the things I would look for is evidence of damage around that split. I would do this BEFORE assigning a cause.

So if the split came first, it is quite likely the tire was damaged and the belt coming off was a result of that damage. The question at this point would be: What caused the damage and should the tire have been capable of withstanding it? - and without the tire in front of me, I just won't be able to tell.

So I'll chalk this one up to a road hazard based on the sequence of events and the fact that the loss of air was sudden. Sudden air loss is usually caused from something external. Internal issues tend to leak gradually. But I'm not eliminating the possibility that something else was going on..

As far as the other 2 tires are concerned.

If there was an audible bang, then that failure would likely be similar to yours.

But the one your friend caught caught before it came apart - well a bit more of a description would be helpful.
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Old 07-25-2014, 04:59 AM   #139
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I was always told that dropping an unmounted tire on its tread could damage it. Is it possible these tires were stored on a second level and just dropped to the ground on its tread and damaged the tire? I hope I am explaining this properly. I worked at a car dealership and was always told to drop the tire on its side when tossing it down from the second story, not on its end or tread side d. Make sense?? Jim
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Old 07-25-2014, 06:40 AM   #140
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I was always told that dropping an unmounted tire on its tread could damage it. Is it possible these tires were stored on a second level and just dropped to the ground on its tread and damaged the tire? I hope I am explaining this properly. I worked at a car dealership and was always told to drop the tire on its side when tossing it down from the second story, not on its end or tread side d. Make sense?? Jim
Never heard of that one, but who knows how the tire people handled that tire.

And of course the first thing of a tire store person's mouth is, "you hit something with it". Well, of course I hit something with it, in 30,000 miles I hit pot holes, railroad tracks, pavement transitions, and every other thing that's wrong with our roads these days. But, to hit something serious enough to damage THAT tire and none of the others, I had to be backing up at over 50 miles per hour since that tire was on the road side rear of a three axle trailer.

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