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Old 10-16-2013, 12:16 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS View Post
Hi, My latest.

I agree with Capri, but lacking a Sherograph machine in your home garage
I would check for run-out.
Fifthwheel Tire Wobble.mov - YouTube

I would also have the tire inspected at a Goodyear tire store.

Brake flat-spot normally has an oval shape centered on the tread.
Diagonal wear is more likely on the rear of front wheel drive cars and in more than one location around the tire.

You could have an open belt ply splice. If Open splice then that is a factory misproduction and should be adjusted under warranty.
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Old 10-16-2013, 04:07 PM   #114
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Hi, My latest.
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Originally Posted by CapriRacer View Post
Very interesting. If you had described this using words, I would have diagnosed this as irregular wear - spotty wear on a diagonal. That's why photos are vitally important to diagnosis - and better yet, the tire itself.

If I had this tire in front of me to diagnose, I would want to do shearography on it.
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Originally Posted by crispyboy View Post
So is this a irregular wear pattern or has the tire been subjected to brake lockup?
That tire must make a lot of vibration and noise....
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Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
I agree with Capri, but lacking a Sherograph machine in your home garage
I would check for run-out.
Fifthwheel Tire Wobble.mov - YouTube

I would also have the tire inspected at a Goodyear tire store.

Brake flat-spot normally has an oval shape centered on the tread.
Diagonal wear is more likely on the rear of front wheel drive cars and in more than one location around the tire.

You could have an open belt ply splice. If Open splice then that is a factory misproduction and should be adjusted under warranty.
Hi, this was another tire separation. The dark, or flat spots were the first thing that I noticed. Hard to see, but the outside tread gap was a bit wider. There was no vibration, no thumping, no brake lock up, no alignment problems and at six years of age, Goodyear wouldn't do anything for me and I wouldn't ask them either based on past experiences. I replaced my two oldest tires. [this one and the one in front of it]
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Old 10-17-2013, 02:41 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS View Post
Hi, this was another tire separation. The dark, or flat spots were the first thing that I noticed. Hard to see, but the outside tread gap was a bit wider. There was no vibration, no thumping, no brake lock up, no alignment problems and at six years of age, Goodyear wouldn't do anything for me and I wouldn't ask them either based on past experiences. I replaced my two oldest tires. [this one and the one in front of it]
Don't get me wrong. I think the tire is separated. But it is unusual and the point I was trying to make was if someone had just used words and not a photo, it's quite possible that it would have been dismissed as irregular wear.
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Old 10-17-2013, 02:44 AM   #116
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When people report GYM failures it would be nice if they would provide date codes from the failed tires to see if a certain time period produced tires more prone to failure.
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Old 10-17-2013, 09:59 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS View Post
Hi, this was another tire separation. The dark, or flat spots were the first thing that I noticed. Hard to see, but the outside tread gap was a bit wider. There was no vibration, no thumping, no brake lock up, no alignment problems and at six years of age, Goodyear wouldn't do anything for me and I wouldn't ask them either based on past experiences. I replaced my two oldest tires. [this one and the one in front of it]
Why aren't you filing a complaint with NHTSA?
You are doing a disservice to the RV community by not providing NHTSA with actionable data.
I believe if half of those that spend time complaining about tire failures of RV forums filed complaints (with full DOT serial) and bothered to snap a couple of well lit pictures we would be having tire recalls and we would all see an improvement in the quality of the tires on our rigs.

To me complaining on a forum but not filing a complaint is like complaining about your elected officials but not bothering to learn the facts and to actually take the time to vote. I believe if you don't vote you don't deserve the right to complain.
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Old 10-17-2013, 10:49 PM   #118
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Why aren't you filing a complaint with NHTSA?
You are doing a disservice to the RV community by not providing NHTSA with actionable data.
I believe if half of those that spend time complaining about tire failures of RV forums filed complaints (with full DOT serial) and bothered to snap a couple of well lit pictures we would be having tire recalls and we would all see an improvement in the quality of the tires on our rigs.

To me complaining on a forum but not filing a complaint is like complaining about your elected officials but not bothering to learn the facts and to actually take the time to vote. I believe if you don't vote you don't deserve the right to complain.
Hi, I totally disagree with you. I'll be dead and gone decades before anyone [NHTSA] does anything to make these tires any better. Your vote is just another number being tossed into the big trash can. If you are referring to me, I have only told about replacing my tires and why, but never complained. I took my first two tires to several Goodyear tire dealers and all any of them said was that I ran over something. Tires are made to run over things every day; My Lincoln ran over everything that my trailer ran over, but never had a failure. To me, tires are just like gas, when you need more, you just buy them.

If anyone could, and should, convince NHTSA that there is a real problem with these tires, it should be the two tire engineers on this forum; They won't, and don't, believe us.
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Old 10-18-2013, 07:05 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS View Post
Hi, I totally disagree with you. I'll be dead and gone decades before anyone [NHTSA] does anything to make these tires any better. Your vote is just another number being tossed into the big trash can. If you are referring to me, I have only told about replacing my tires and why, but never complained. I took my first two tires to several Goodyear tire dealers and all any of them said was that I ran over something. Tires are made to run over things every day; My Lincoln ran over everything that my trailer ran over, but never had a failure. To me, tires are just like gas, when you need more, you just buy them.

If anyone could, and should, convince NHTSA that there is a real problem with these tires, it should be the two tire engineers on this forum; They won't, and don't, believe us.

I'll throw in with you, will be long gone before another worthless government "your tax dollars at waste" agency does anything about junk trailer, "non passenger" tires from China.
This forum simply lets whoever is interested know what some of us trailer toting folks are experiencing when using worthless Goodyear Marathon and other junk Chinese tires.
We do vote with our checkbook every time we refuse to be suckered in to repeat the mistake of buying these POS tires. If everyone would simply stop buying ST radial tires , and when buying a new trailer "whatever brand it is" REFUSE to close the deal until the dealer takes the Marathons off and replaces them with something else , these worthless tires would very soon disappear from the American landscape.

just saying
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Old 10-18-2013, 07:23 AM   #120
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It really doesn't take but 5 minutes of your time to file the tire complaint online. I know because I did this back in August with my own trailer tire issues. This can't be left up to the tire engineers - they only have so much sway on this issue. We, the general public, should do our part to file the complaint. It doesn't seem like your doing much but if the RV population who have had tire issues filed a complaint there is a least a chance it would get some attention.....
The problem about voting with our pocket books is that: tire dealers push people into ST tires by stating that "only these will work on a trailer and I won't mount anything else", most folks don't know any better ( or don't care) and believe this is all that is available, as there are very limited choices in another 15" tire (you have to know what to look for).
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Old 10-18-2013, 09:39 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by crispyboy View Post
It really doesn't take but 5 minutes of your time to file the tire complaint online. I know because I did this back in August with my own trailer tire issues. This can't be left up to the tire engineers - they only have so much sway on this issue. We, the general public, should do our part to file the complaint. It doesn't seem like your doing much but if the RV population who have had tire issues filed a complaint there is a least a chance it would get some attention.....
The problem about voting with our pocket books is that: tire dealers push people into ST tires by stating that "only these will work on a trailer and I won't mount anything else", most folks don't know any better ( or don't care) and believe this is all that is available, as there are very limited choices in another 15" tire (you have to know what to look for).

Yes , case in point , the idiots at Discount tire in Bastrop refused to sell me a set of Cooper 235R75 15 inch tires for my lightweight 22 ft duel axle AS. So I drove over to another store and bought the exact same set of tires for my "imaginary" 85 F 150 , brought them home and mounted and balanced them myself . Of course I could have taken them and the trailer wheels to most any local tire shop and they would have gladly taken my money to mount and balance them .
Take Care
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Old 10-18-2013, 10:38 AM   #122
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Hi, I totally disagree with you. I'll be dead and gone decades before anyone [NHTSA] does anything to make these tires any better. Your vote is just another number being tossed into the big trash can. If you are referring to me, I have only told about replacing my tires and why, but never complained. I took my first two tires to several Goodyear tire dealers and all any of them said was that I ran over something. Tires are made to run over things every day; My Lincoln ran over everything that my trailer ran over, but never had a failure. To me, tires are just like gas, when you need more, you just buy them.

If anyone could, and should, convince NHTSA that there is a real problem with these tires, it should be the two tire engineers on this forum; They won't, and don't, believe us.
Under the law as passed by Congress and especially with the desire of some to cut just about all Government programs how would you, if you worked at NHTSA, explain to your boss why you are starting an investigation into possible tire defects when there is essentially zero data (complaints) available to support your actions?
Investigations take resources and with resources in both manpower and budget being cut by those that feel our Government can do nothing right, you have to make tough choices on where to focus your resources.

If you have complaints about some Michelin tires going flat or if an individual, who does not own a Marathon tire sends an email saying he has heard about some possible tire failures but he has no DOT serial that identifies the actual manufacturer nor does he have even any pictures of the supposed tire failures so an analysis can be made to determine if the tire failed because of some manufacturing defect or if because the user was part of the 57% of RV trailer owners who run their tires under-inflated or overloaded?

You do realize that there have been some large volume (100,000+) (40,000) (list of 23 tire recalls in 2012& 2013)recalls of tires that are sometimes used on RVs or TV in the last two years don't you?

They don't need to toss your vote (complaint) in the trashcan if the number is zero when the market is in the millions of tires.

Re your specific tire failures. Please provide the link to the pictures you took and posted. Also we need the full DOT serial from each failed tire. This information would help the two tire engineers, that follow this forum, offer an unbiased opinion?
I have posted pictures and autopsy results in my blog showing that some tires that the owner was convinced were defective actually failed due to valve leak or puncture. Its not that we don't believe that you have had tire failures its just that in our experience in examining thousands of failed tires we have learned that most failures are improperly diagnosed.

Please don't accuse us of not providing support in removing low quality tires from the market place but without physical evidence it would be like going to the county prosecutor and demanding an arrest and jail time for a burglar but you refusing to fill out a police report.
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Old 10-18-2013, 10:58 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
Under the law as passed by Congress and especially with the desire of some to cut just about all Government programs how would you, if you worked at NHTSA, explain to your boss why you are starting an investigation into possible tire defects when there is essentially zero data (complaints) available to support your actions?
Investigations take resources and with resources in both manpower and budget being cut by those that feel our Government can do nothing right, you have to make tough choices on where to focus your resources.

If you have complaints about some Michelin tires going flat or if an individual, who does not own a Marathon tire sends an email saying he has heard about some possible tire failures but he has no DOT serial that identifies the actual manufacturer nor does he have even any pictures of the supposed tire failures so an analysis can be made to determine if the tire failed because of some manufacturing defect or if because the user was part of the 57% of RV trailer owners who run their tires under-inflated or overloaded?

You do realize that there have been some large volume (100,000+) (40,000) (list of 23 tire recalls in 2012& 2013)recalls of tires that are sometimes used on RVs or TV in the last two years don't you?

They don't need to toss your vote (complaint) in the trashcan if the number is zero when the market is in the millions of tires.

Re your specific tire failures. Please provide the link to the pictures you took and posted. Also we need the full DOT serial from each failed tire. This information would help the two tire engineers, that follow this forum, offer an unbiased opinion?
I have posted pictures and autopsy results in my blog showing that some tires that the owner was convinced were defective actually failed due to valve leak or puncture. Its not that we don't believe that you have had tire failures its just that in our experience in examining thousands of failed tires we have learned that most failures are improperly diagnosed.

Please don't accuse us of not providing support in removing low quality tires from the market place but without physical evidence it would be like going to the county prosecutor and demanding an arrest and jail time for a burglar but you refusing to fill out a police report.



Sorry that I can not help with the pictures and numbers , they all have been dead and gone before today.
As far as my 100% failure rate concerning Marathons , ALL of them self destructed while parked at zero MPH . All were still properly inflated , and were it not for me being almost to the point of insanity, a perfectionist about tires and their condition would have done serious damage had I gone down the road with these things.

And the fact that I will never again own a Marathon "or any other ST Radial" can offer no assistance in the future.
Regards
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Old 10-18-2013, 11:17 AM   #124
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In a real general way, I think part of why we have ST tires at all, is because American consumers are heavily driven by the price point of many of the products we buy. The average shopper has evolved into someone who has a hard time differentiating between price and value. Wally world is making a fortune based on this.

So, here's a bit of speculation: we end up with a tire that is not suitable for carrying people, because the powers that be are afraid of law suits, but yet is considered "adequate" for trailers. All at a lower price point. Perhaps, in building down to that lower price point, some reliability and durability has been lost if we look across the entire market of these tires ?

As for the tire stores that believe they cannot mount an LT tire on trailer, I suspect this is case of modern trend for companies to have a very real fear of lawsuits. The easy way out to simply make some hard and fast rules, lest someone down at the shop floor might get creative in their interpretation of the rules.

Both of the above are likely good examples of "be careful what you ask for".....because much of this is in response to what we, as a nation "have asked for" in recent decades.

The good news is, there are still good choices in most products we need on a daily basis, if we take the time to do our homework.
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Old 10-18-2013, 12:00 PM   #125
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In a real general way, I think part of why we have ST tires at all, is because American consumers are heavily driven by the price point of many of the products we buy. The average shopper has evolved into someone who has a hard time differentiating between price and value. Wally world is making a fortune based on this.

So, here's a bit of speculation: we end up with a tire that is not suitable for carrying people, because the powers that be are afraid of law suits, but yet is considered "adequate" for trailers. All at a lower price point. Perhaps, in building down to that lower price point, some reliability and durability has been lost if we look across the entire market of these tires ?

As for the tire stores that believe they cannot mount an LT tire on trailer, I suspect this is case of modern trend for companies to have a very real fear of lawsuits. The easy way out to simply make some hard and fast rules, lest someone down at the shop floor might get creative in their interpretation of the rules.

Both of the above are likely good examples of "be careful what you ask for".....because much of this is in response to what we, as a nation "have asked for" in recent decades.

The good news is, there are still good choices in most products we need on a daily basis, if we take the time to do our homework.

Right On ! and with the information that was gleaned from someone or some post "sure can't remember the source" that the ST tires are exempt from the import duty that has been imposed on car and truck tires from China, the profit margin for the STs is greater for the dealer.
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Old 10-20-2013, 07:38 PM   #126
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Here's a first! we were driving back on I-40 last weekend towing our 31 foot International. Around m/m 205 heading east in NC, a nice motorist passes us, gets our attention and lets me know I have a problem. Fortunately for us we are right at exit 208 Colfax NC where we get allot of the work done on the Airstream at ODM, and we always fuel up at the Shell station. We pull in, and sure enough the driver side AS rear, rear is going flat and it is a Marathon. We pulled at a nice speed of about 55-60 and after taking on fuel when over to get it looked at. Tires age was by DOT was 3404 so it was due. One thing to point out, this GYM D load tire (s) was made in Canada. Rather than down loading the coach, we filled the tire up, and could hear the air escaping and it did not come from the valve stem. The local tire company that is used was within two miles, the air easily stayed in the tire for over 20 minutes as we wanted to make sure it was a "loud" but slow leak. WE safely had no problem getting the A/S over to the tire company where we ended up replacing the D load GYM with Unicorn Master Tracks E loads due to that is all that was available at the time and as always it was 4PM. We ensured that dates on the other tires in which they being GYM made in Canada had a DOT 2609 with the exception of one having a 0400 date, which really caught us off guard. Needless to say, that one, on the same side was replaced as well.
I think speed had a lot to do with the fact we didn't have a blow out. Tempatures were in the low 60's with rain, so road conditions were not as hot as normal.
I'll let these sit on the AS over the winter and figure out what to to as we're not into it for allot of money compared to having a blow out and having a major repair. I just found it interesting that the GYM made in Canada lasted so long and did NOT rip apart as they have been known to do.
Maybe I'll see if they still have the E-loads made in Canada available as I did buy them back in Vermont in 2001, prior to switching out to a newer rim in which I obtained the D load set back in 2007.

Still way too long for tire life based on those dates so we were lucky and won't take it for granted again.

Best of luck in your choice, but do monitor those DOT dates regardless of how much tread is left on the tire.

SL4BLLT
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