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Old 10-09-2013, 07:14 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by LFC View Post
There's plenty of Michelin tire failures listed...

Michelin Tire Consumer Complaints

Another thing to consider is how many more trailers are running ST tires compared to the number of people running LT truck tires on trailers.

I'm sure if there was a way to figure it out the percentage of ST and LT tire failures would be close.
Glad you have not been bit by an ST tire ! Hope you stay lucky !


Having run Michelins "not exclusively" for many years in various sizes from
285/ 65R 14s to 1400 R 24s with a whole bunch of 1000 R 20s and 11R22.5s and never having one fail on anything , and having 100% of the ST radials that I have owned fail . This simple old man has decided never to use a ST tire on anything that goes over 20 MPH.
Just saying
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:18 PM   #100
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Summary of Airstream Tire Failure Poll data

Summary of Airstream Tire Failure Poll data:

189 = Total number of tires reported in poll (good and bad, combined)
089 = Number of GYM tires that failed
001 = Number of Michelin tires that failed
031 = Number of other brand tires that failed
082 = Total number of ST tires that failed
001 = Total number of LT tires that failed

Notes:
1. 55% of people completing the poll had at least one tire fail on their Airstream.
2. Two tires reported as Michelin LT tires were actually GYM ST tires, and above summary reflects these corrections.
3. 7 "unknown" type tires failed, but this data was not included in above totals.
4. Percentages do not necessarily total 100% due to the way calculations are performed by the underlying BBS software.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:19 PM   #101
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It is funny, I really wanted to believe the Marathons supplied with my trailer would be fine. I understand that Goodyear had problems with the first Chinese made tires. I really expected that after that experience all kinks would be worked out.

To be fair, I never did experience any catastrophic tire failures while on the road. I simply found that each of my Marathons developed an out of round condition that called for tire replacement. One when brand new the other after 12,000 miles.

Unless one owns a Roadforce balancer (I do) I can not imagine how a person would have ever discerned that the tires had issues. Sure, anyone riding in a car with these tires mounted would have noticed a bad vibration, even after balancing. The fact is these tires look perfect to my eye. Inside and out mounted and dismounted they appear fine.

I have seen my share of new out of round (high roadforce) tires, even Michelins. I have never had any tire company refuse to replace a new tire that exhibits these symptoms. Never, no questions asked.

I may have simply been unlucky or I may have hit a pothole (rim is very straight though) who knows? I only know that I am no longer comfortable running the Marathons. I am switching to Michelin LT's and fully expect them to perform their task perfectly.

There is no need to berate anyone for their choice of tire when clearly many people have had issues with their ST tires. There is no law that prevents an LT from trailer service as long as care is given to verify the tires are within their load capacity.

I hope no one ever experiences any tire failure!

Bruce
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:36 PM   #102
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Phoenix - do the polls have insight into the number of STs on trailers vs LTs? If 89/8900 STs blow, that's 1%. If 1/10 LTs blow, that's 10%. Do you have a way of getting at that view?

Bruce - agreed - no matter the choice, mocking isn't appropriate and here's hoping everyone has safe travels all the time.
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Old 10-10-2013, 03:51 AM   #103
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Unfortunately, that question arose after the poll was completed; and there was no way to go back and add it, after the fact. At the time, the main purpose of the poll was to get a handle on the type and quantity of defects, and the failed tire brands. Short of sending a PM to each of the poll participants, I don't think it's possible to extract the total number of tires by brand, at this time.

My gut feeling is that most of the poll respondents probably had GYMs or ST tires when the poll was first released, as the 16-inch wheel and LT tire mod had only been implemented by a few "pioneers", led by Bob Thompson in 2005. See original "tire" link, below:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...res-16506.html

It might be interesting to start a revised poll to see what's happening now, since many more have converted to 16-inch wheels and tires, and there are a lot of new Airstream owners that weren't AirForums members at the time the original poll was released. Then, more information on tires that just wore out (with no failures) could be captured, along with better details on tire brands. However, constructing the poll question is very time consuming; and polls can't be edited after being posted. Perhaps, a moderator could assist this time, to make the process a little easier?
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Old 10-10-2013, 06:26 AM   #104
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It would be interesting to know the load ratings and number of plies of the failed st tires. My tire guy will not put anything but ten ply or occasionally 8 ply tires on any RV. He also will only use metal valve stems and insists on max tire pressures. He says most rv use underrated tires that are not up to the task. He will not mount p rated tires on a travel trailer and says lt tires are okay as long as they fit. Ten ply st tires do not have to be run at 65 mph or less. Jim
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Old 10-10-2013, 06:31 AM   #105
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I meant my tire guy will only mount 8 or 10 ply ST tires or LT tires if the weight is ok. Jim
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Old 10-10-2013, 06:56 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
Unfortunately, that question arose after the poll was completed; and there was no way to go back and add it, after the fact. At the time, the main purpose of the poll was to get a handle on the type and quantity of defects, and the failed tire brands. Short of sending a PM to each of the poll participants, I don't think it's possible to extract the total number of tires by brand, at this time.

My gut feeling is that most of the poll respondents probably had GYMs or ST tires when the poll was first released, as the 16-inch wheel and LT tire mod had only been implemented by a few "pioneers", led by Bob Thompson in 2005. See original "tire" link, below:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...res-16506.html

It might be interesting to start a revised poll to see what's happening now, since many more have converted to 16-inch wheels and tires, and there are a lot of new Airstream owners that weren't AirForums members at the time the original poll was released. Then, more information on tires that just wore out (with no failures) could be captured, along with better details on tire brands. However, constructing the poll question is very time consuming; and polls can't be edited after being posted. Perhaps, a moderator could assist this time, to make the process a little easier?
Unfortunately, the key bit of information is the size of the population for each tire - either type of tire or brand. That way, you can compare failure rates. While it is interesting to know what the percentages are of the tires that failed, it doesn't tell us about how each compares to the other.

The poll doesn't and can't address that issue. Neither does searching in the NHTSA data.

And no amount of emails or phone calls is going to get that information. This is considered highly proprietary by the tire manufacturers. The only group that has this info is the federal government - and they have agreed to withhold the information from the public as part of the bargain to get the data from the tire manufacturers on failures - part of the TREAD Act.

And for people who are interested, there are some loopholes in the reporting requirements, and it is quite possible for some of the tires of interest here to NOT be reported at all to NHTSA. In that case, not even the government knows how many were produced (or imported).
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Old 10-10-2013, 07:49 AM   #107
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I had a Kumho tire failure after 3500 miles on a Casita a couple of years
ago. I bought an Argosy 7.3 Minuet that came with GYMs and have put
9000 miles on them in the last 18 mos. Still look good.
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:56 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LFC View Post
There's plenty of Michelin tire failures listed...

Michelin Tire Consumer Complaints

Another thing to consider is how many more trailers are running ST tires compared to the number of people running LT truck tires on trailers.

I'm sure if there was a way to figure it out the percentage of ST and LT tire failures would be close.
Thanks for the link.
I find it interesting that so many people are prepared to "complain" about their tires but
1. Can't be bothered to get the correct "model" or Line or Design of tires correct. (How is "All Season Radial" a model ?) and
2. Can't be bothered to actually file a complete complaint with appropriate actionable information with NHTSA.

Examples of shoddy complaint:
- a 145/60R14.5 on Mercedes E320 but no DOT serial provided
- in one case "The vehicle was not taken to have the failures diagnosed or repaired. The manufacturer was not made aware of the failures." But this person somehow expects Michelin to do something.
- a complaint about a Michelin "Eagle". Seems strange that Michelin is making a Goodyear brand tire.
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:39 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by CapriRacer View Post
Unfortunately, the key bit of information is the size of the population for each tire - either type of tire or brand. That way, you can compare failure rates. While it is interesting to know what the percentages are of the tires that failed, it doesn't tell us about how each compares to the other.

The poll doesn't and can't address that issue. Neither does searching in the NHTSA data.

And no amount of emails or phone calls is going to get that information. This is considered highly proprietary by the tire manufacturers. The only group that has this info is the federal government - and they have agreed to withhold the information from the public as part of the bargain to get the data from the tire manufacturers on failures - part of the TREAD Act.

And for people who are interested, there are some loopholes in the reporting requirements, and it is quite possible for some of the tires of interest here to NOT be reported at all to NHTSA. In that case, not even the government knows how many were produced (or imported).
I agree that there a number of holes. One of the biggest is the owner of the "failed" tire. For NHTSA to start an investigation they need facts that relate to the tire and its condition. Too often people do not provide the correct or any DOT serial. They often do not get the size or design correct, but they seem to believe that providing information on where they were going as important.
We also see on this forum as well as on others very few owners can properly diagnose the tire condition or reason for the failure. Even supposedly knowledgeable users like Sean and Kristy Michael of Long Long Honeymoon .com
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:13 PM   #110
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Hi, My latest.
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Old 10-16-2013, 04:57 AM   #111
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Hi, My latest.
Very interesting. If you had described this using words, I would have diagnosed this as irregular wear - spotty wear on a diagonal. That's why photos are vitally important to diagnosis - and better yet, the tire itself.

If I had this tire in front of me to diagnose, I would want to do shearography on it.
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Old 10-16-2013, 08:52 AM   #112
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Hi, My latest.
So is this a irregular wear pattern or has the tire been subjected to brake lockup?
That tire must make a lot of vibration and noise....
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