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Old 10-07-2013, 07:19 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Bruce B View Post
Lets see
Roadforce on the right tore was under 10 lbs 12,000 moles ago. It is now in excess of 80 lbs!.........
That's not only quite a change, but also quite high.

But you need to be aware that the Hunter GSP9700 tends to exaggerate uniformity values over 50 pounds. Why? Because the machine is using a fairly small diameter wheel and tends to emphasize "short events" in the tire - things like isolated wear.

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........The tire appears fine to the eye, even during the spin phase of the measurement. You really can not detect any problem visually...........
Since the tire was out of balance, it's possible one part of the tire was wearing faster - and that would produce a high uniformity value. The fact that the vehicle doesn't have shocks contributes to this condition.

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......I checked the rims for run out and they are very straight......
Straight is good, but it is out of round that is what would be of concern with road force. I'd still recommend you do the bare wheel procedure.

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.........Whatever is making the tire "not round" is only happening under load.

I even reduced tire pressure to see what impact the 60 lb pressure had on the number. At 35 lbs the number was still in the high 40's. I am certain it is a failing tire....

Bruce
And I'm not saying it isn't, but there is a lot extraneous and contradictory information, so I'd be careful jumping to that conclusion. You might be setting yourself up for another tire replacement down the road for the same reason.

On the other hand, we are only talking about 2 tires, so it isn't like there is a huge expense involved.
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Old 10-07-2013, 07:50 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by CapriRacer View Post
That's not only quite a change, but also quite high.

But you need to be aware that the Hunter GSP9700 tends to exaggerate uniformity values over 50 pounds. Why? Because the machine is using a fairly small diameter wheel and tends to emphasize "short events" in the tire - things like isolated wear.



Since the tire was out of balance, it's possible one part of the tire was wearing faster - and that would produce a high uniformity value. The fact that the vehicle doesn't have shocks contributes to this condition.



Straight is good, but it is out of round that is what would be of concern with road force. I'd still recommend you do the bare wheel procedure.



And I'm not saying it isn't, but there is a lot extraneous and contradictory information, so I'd be careful jumping to that conclusion. You might be setting yourself up for another tire replacement down the road for the same reason.

On the other hand, we are only talking about 2 tires, so it isn't like there is a huge expense involved.

I will be dismounting the tires this morning and I will check the wheel at that time and report back. What really surprises me is that I can see absolutely nothing wrong with the tire when it is spinning! It looks like a well aged, round undamaged tire. I have not actually measured tread depth across the entire tire but it certainly looks uniform.

I understand what you are refering to about exaggeration of roadforse numbers but this number is still very high. Any time I have had a number of more than about 25 or so I have easily picked up the vibration in any vehicle... Even my truck (2010 F-150 with 20" wheels) is extremely sensative to high numbers and my last of Pirellis drove me nuts when the numbers reached the high teens.... My Michelins have maintained numbers below 10 for 40,000 miles now.

Perhaps I will see more when I dismount the tires. I will certainly look carefully and report back!

Bruce
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Old 10-07-2013, 10:00 AM   #73
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OK,
Just removed the suspect tire and measured the rim for runout.
Here is a picture of the screen showing rim runout.
I see nothing in the tire to indicate anything is amiss. Believe me I have looked!
Bruce
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Old 10-08-2013, 06:14 AM   #74
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"How about no shocks at all?
The single axel Airstreams have no shocks installed at all!
Dexter Axel says that the rubber in the axel tube is more than sufficient to dampen any motion and although I wonder about this I have never known the trailer to "bounce" the way a car will with bad shocks."

Our 2005 22foot Safari has no shocks , nor did our 17 ft Casita with the same axle. They both ride down the road extremely well and tow perfectly behind us as if they were welded solid to the Dodge. Rough roads, high cross winds , no problem at all. And both running P rated 235/75R15s .

The GYM's that came on the Casita both did ok for a bit , then at 4 years they both came apart and separated while sitting in the barn up on blocks.
The ones on the Airstream , when we went up to northern Illinois August last to pick it up , both tires on the left side had separated while parked in the PO drive way. He had replaced the ones on the right the previous year due to them coming apart too.

Thats six out of six that self destructed , not a very good % for Goodyear Marathons me thinks.

We just got back from an 11,000 mile adventure across the United States and Canada to Alaska and back with our little 22 ft 2 axle Safari . I did not splurge for Michelins this time but put a set of Cooper 235/75R15s P rated tires on it .
On this trip we encountered just about every road condition and surface that there is on this planet. As well as making a great many tight U-turns on paved and gravel surfaces "side drag on the trailer tires" and again scooting across Texas in the August heat at 70 plus MPH, these low cost Non ST tires performed flawlessly. No flats , no problems whatsoever .

The shocks on our 66 land Yacht were mounted in such a way that there is such very little travel in the shocks when the hub assembly moves up and down that it's hard to imagine that the cheesy little single action shocks do anything other than add weight to the trailer and act as a selling point for Airstream. The old beast tows perfectly , just as the 2005 Airstream with no shocks does .
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Old 10-08-2013, 06:28 AM   #75
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Three years on trailer tires us the max. Instead of buying the cheap ST tires try buying the much better 8 or 10 ply ones. Jim
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:01 AM   #76
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I use the P rated tires mainly because the load rating is more than sufficient and the fact they have a lot more flexibility to absorb variations in the road surface ,small objects pot holes etc, without transmitting the movement to the axle and trailer while running at a much lower air pressure.

The amount of travel in a trailers suspension is so very tiny when compared to the suspension travel of trucks and cars , I like to give it a bit more cushion that these P rated tires offer . And have never encountered any problem at all in crosswinds , sharp turns , etc. due to the much softer sidewalls.
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Old 10-08-2013, 08:47 AM   #77
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Three years on trailer tires us the max. Instead of buying the cheap ST tires try buying the much better 8 or 10 ply ones. Jim
Looks like be it Marathons, or the 10 ply E rated Maxxis tires that I used last, it looks like 3 years is about all the safe towing I can get on an ST before they begin to fail. Typically prior to the ST tire days, I'd replace tires every 5 years. No failures no problems.

One the reasons for going this time to LT's was the pure economics. If I can get 5 years out of an LT, it will economically make more sense than sticking with ST's. Compound that with the damage caused by a blowout on the road, the $$ spent on the wheel upgrade and LT tires will come back as savings over the years.

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Old 10-08-2013, 08:53 AM   #78
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Well,
I am replacing my ST's with LT Michelins.
I am adding shock absorbers and I am balancing the new drums (that is another story) so that I do not have to worry about special balancing techniques on the trailer.
I will as always report back....
Bruce
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Old 10-08-2013, 03:35 PM   #79
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Well,
I am replacing my ST's with LT Michelins.
I am adding shock absorbers and I am balancing the new drums (that is another story) so that I do not have to worry about special balancing techniques on the trailer.
I will as always report back....
Bruce
With the Michelins mounted and the STs in the trash where they belong , you'll be a "Happy Camper " for sure
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Old 10-08-2013, 06:28 PM   #80
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What does GY and Hunter say about the 80# roadforce measurement? I am sure there are GY dealers that use Hunter and similar equipment. I am pretty sure that GY does not ship tires with anywhere near 80# roadforce to any car or light truck manufacturer.
I use to have contacts that could give me the approx numbers but not since retirement.
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:32 PM   #81
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What does GY and Hunter say about the 80# roadforce measurement? I am sure there are GY dealers that use Hunter and similar equipment. I am pretty sure that GY does not ship tires with anywhere near 80# roadforce to any car or light truck manufacturer.
I use to have contacts that could give me the approx numbers but not since retirement.
Hunter says you can use up to 40 lbs RoadForce on an LT tire. Goodyear replaced the first tire when the RoadForce numbers were less than that (I can't remember how High the RoadForce was on the original tire, they had no qualms replacing it). You can feel the "imbalance in most cars once the numbers reach the mid 20's. In some cars you can begin to feel vibration in the high teens.

The other tire (the replacement) is under 10 lbs. The bad tire was below 10 for the first 10,000 miles, that is he last time I spun it.

I have not even called Goodyear about he tire. I simply want to try something else.

Bruce
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:33 PM   #82
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All you guys running Light Truck tires on Airstreams will be singing the blues soon enough.....
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:36 PM   #83
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All you guys running Light Truck tires on Airstreams will be singing the blues soon enough.....
....because...?

:-)
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:42 PM   #84
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Real simple.

Because LT (Light truck) tires were not made for use on trailers....if they were the manufacturers would advertise them as such.

Like one guy said earlier Goodyear Marthons have gotten a bad rap because there is more of them in use.
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