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Bruce B · 10-06-2013, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

Bruce - what's the weight of your trailer fully loaded? I think those Michelins - discounted for trailer use - come in around 1945# each (2140/1.1) so 3890# would be your trailer weight max for those tires. Caveat - I'm not a tire guy....

We tip the scales "loaded" at about 4200 lbs. Definitely overloaded by definition. I am now looking at wheels styled more like mine to jump to the 16's...
Bruce

SteveSueMac · 10-06-2013, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce B

We tip the scales "loaded" at about 4200 lbs. Definitely overloaded by definition. I am now looking at wheels styled more like mine to jump to the 16's...
Bruce

Yup - the GYMs would certainly cover that, but like you, I succumbed to GYMfear (and I had less evidence than you do! ) and went to the Michelins you were looking at. With 2 axles and a fully loaded weight of 5880#, I felt comfortable the 4 derated 15s were plenty sufficient for me. I think going to the 16s for your trailer is a better answer. I think folks have found Sendel (??) wheels they felt looked pretty stock...plenty of threads here on that as you've no doubt seen :-)

Good luck! We got ours before doing CT to ME to CT to TN to CT this summer and together with the TPMS it was just as worry free as could be. I hate that I gave in - the GYMs seemed just fine, but I'm glad I made the change.

gandttimes · 10-06-2013, 09:49 AM

Both my 19 and 20 ft single axles had shocks!

SteveH · 10-06-2013, 10:53 AM

17' Casitas, which have a similar axle, and similar weight to the 16' Bambi do not have shocks standard. There have been those that have added shocks, and report a "better" ride, but I wonder how they quantify that "better" ride.

One other note, the Casitas also come standard with the GYM's, and many have had problems with them.

gandttimes · 10-06-2013, 06:00 PM

Maybe I don't tow enough. I had no trouble with my 19ft Bambi GYM's in 3 years and about 15k miles, Then on my 20 ft Safari , about 30 k miles in 5 years I had one tread separation that I caught before it became trouble. We now have a 25 ft and again GYM's, but I will continue to use them because I check tire pressures all the time, and I don't exceed 65 mph.
I personally believe that trailer tires with their stiffer sidewalls are the best thing for a trailer.I use LT tires on my tow vehicle and notice the rougher ride from the p tires that were on for 5 years, but I wanted the load capacity. I think they are too rough for the A/S.
That being said, everyone seems to have an opinion, but I think there is a lot of fear-mongering going on with all the tire talk.
George

TBRich · 10-06-2013, 06:53 PM

I am sure our 2006 19' has shocks.

Airtandem · 10-06-2013, 07:49 PM

I was watching one of the fishing shows, and there was an ad for Carlisle Radial trail RH tires. They come in 225 75 R 15 and 3 load weights; 2150, 2540, and 2830. They are suggested for boat trailers to toy haulers.
Has anyone heard of or experienced them?

SteveH · 10-06-2013, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airtandem

I was watching one of the fishing shows, and there was an ad for Carlisle Radial trail RH tires. They come in 225 75 R 15 and 3 load weights; 2150, 2540, and 2830. They are suggested for boat trailers to toy haulers.
Has anyone heard of or experienced them?

A few people in our unit have been using them with even worse results than with the GYM's.

ROBERTSUNRUS · 10-06-2013, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airtandem

I was watching one of the fishing shows, and there was an ad for Carlisle Radial trail RH tires. They come in 225 75 R 15 and 3 load weights; 2150, 2540, and 2830. They are suggested for boat trailers to toy haulers.
Has anyone heard of or experienced them?

Hi, I have one Carlisle because when I needed a new tire in Alaska that was all they had. So far, so good.

Lance M · 10-07-2013, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce B

So,
Just saying I wanted to find a way to mount shocks. Do I begin by calling Dexter and seeing if they have the parts and shocks I might want?
All in the quest of a perfect Bambi......
Bruce

Hi Bruce
I have called Dexter about purchasing their shock brackets separately. Bottom line is they only make them to install on axles for Airstream inc. orders. They are not for sale individually. You can have a machine shop make some for you. If you search this site for E-1492 you will find a drawing of the shock bracket. The other option is to buy the brackets ready to install from Inland RV. You can get OE shocks from any Airstream dealer.
If you wanted to stay with a 15" tire that has the load capacity you need for your single axle trailer and is not an ST tire, I would suggest the Continental Vanco 2 or the Good Year Cargo G26 in 225/70/15.

CapriRacer · 10-07-2013, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce B

Lets see
Roadforce on the right tore was under 10 lbs 12,000 moles ago. It is now in excess of 80 lbs!.........

That's not only quite a change, but also quite high.

But you need to be aware that the Hunter GSP9700 tends to exaggerate uniformity values over 50 pounds. Why? Because the machine is using a fairly small diameter wheel and tends to emphasize "short events" in the tire - things like isolated wear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce B

........The tire appears fine to the eye, even during the spin phase of the measurement. You really can not detect any problem visually...........

Since the tire was out of balance, it's possible one part of the tire was wearing faster - and that would produce a high uniformity value. The fact that the vehicle doesn't have shocks contributes to this condition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce B

......I checked the rims for run out and they are very straight......

Straight is good, but it is out of round that is what would be of concern with road force. I'd still recommend you do the bare wheel procedure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce B

.........Whatever is making the tire "not round" is only happening under load.

I even reduced tire pressure to see what impact the 60 lb pressure had on the number. At 35 lbs the number was still in the high 40's. I am certain it is a failing tire....

Bruce

And I'm not saying it isn't, but there is a lot extraneous and contradictory information, so I'd be careful jumping to that conclusion. You might be setting yourself up for another tire replacement down the road for the same reason.

On the other hand, we are only talking about 2 tires, so it isn't like there is a huge expense involved.

Bruce B · 10-07-2013, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapriRacer

That's not only quite a change, but also quite high.

But you need to be aware that the Hunter GSP9700 tends to exaggerate uniformity values over 50 pounds. Why? Because the machine is using a fairly small diameter wheel and tends to emphasize "short events" in the tire - things like isolated wear.

Since the tire was out of balance, it's possible one part of the tire was wearing faster - and that would produce a high uniformity value. The fact that the vehicle doesn't have shocks contributes to this condition.

Straight is good, but it is out of round that is what would be of concern with road force. I'd still recommend you do the bare wheel procedure.

And I'm not saying it isn't, but there is a lot extraneous and contradictory information, so I'd be careful jumping to that conclusion. You might be setting yourself up for another tire replacement down the road for the same reason.

On the other hand, we are only talking about 2 tires, so it isn't like there is a huge expense involved.

I will be dismounting the tires this morning and I will check the wheel at that time and report back. What really surprises me is that I can see absolutely nothing wrong with the tire when it is spinning! It looks like a well aged, round undamaged tire. I have not actually measured tread depth across the entire tire but it certainly looks uniform.

I understand what you are refering to about exaggeration of roadforse numbers but this number is still very high. Any time I have had a number of more than about 25 or so I have easily picked up the vibration in any vehicle... Even my truck (2010 F-150 with 20" wheels) is extremely sensative to high numbers and my last of Pirellis drove me nuts when the numbers reached the high teens.... My Michelins have maintained numbers below 10 for 40,000 miles now.

Perhaps I will see more when I dismount the tires. I will certainly look carefully and report back!

Bruce

Bruce B · 10-07-2013, 09:00 AM

OK,
Just removed the suspect tire and measured the rim for runout.
Here is a picture of the screen showing rim runout.
I see nothing in the tire to indicate anything is amiss. Believe me I have looked!
Bruce

dannydimitt · 10-08-2013, 05:14 AM

"How about no shocks at all?
The single axel Airstreams have no shocks installed at all!
Dexter Axel says that the rubber in the axel tube is more than sufficient to dampen any motion and although I wonder about this I have never known the trailer to "bounce" the way a car will with bad shocks."

Our 2005 22foot Safari has no shocks , nor did our 17 ft Casita with the same axle. They both ride down the road extremely well and tow perfectly behind us as if they were welded solid to the Dodge. Rough roads, high cross winds , no problem at all. And both running P rated 235/75R15s .

The GYM's that came on the Casita both did ok for a bit , then at 4 years they both came apart and separated while sitting in the barn up on blocks.
The ones on the Airstream , when we went up to northern Illinois August last to pick it up , both tires on the left side had separated while parked in the PO drive way. He had replaced the ones on the right the previous year due to them coming apart too.

Thats six out of six that self destructed , not a very good % for Goodyear Marathons me thinks.

We just got back from an 11,000 mile adventure across the United States and Canada to Alaska and back with our little 22 ft 2 axle Safari . I did not splurge for Michelins this time but put a set of Cooper 235/75R15s P rated tires on it .
On this trip we encountered just about every road condition and surface that there is on this planet. As well as making a great many tight U-turns on paved and gravel surfaces "side drag on the trailer tires" and again scooting across Texas in the August heat at 70 plus MPH, these low cost Non ST tires performed flawlessly. No flats , no problems whatsoever .

The shocks on our 66 land Yacht were mounted in such a way that there is such very little travel in the shocks when the hub assembly moves up and down that it's hard to imagine that the cheesy little single action shocks do anything other than add weight to the trailer and act as a selling point for Airstream. The old beast tows perfectly , just as the 2005 Airstream with no shocks does .

xrvr · 10-08-2013, 05:28 AM

Three years on trailer tires us the max. Instead of buying the cheap ST tires try buying the much better 8 or 10 ply ones. Jim

dannydimitt · 10-08-2013, 06:01 AM

I use the P rated tires mainly because the load rating is more than sufficient and the fact they have a lot more flexibility to absorb variations in the road surface ,small objects pot holes etc, without transmitting the movement to the axle and trailer while running at a much lower air pressure.

The amount of travel in a trailers suspension is so very tiny when compared to the suspension travel of trucks and cars , I like to give it a bit more cushion that these P rated tires offer . And have never encountered any problem at all in crosswinds , sharp turns , etc. due to the much softer sidewalls.
Just Me .

**jcanavera** · 10-08-2013, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zigzagguzzi

Three years on trailer tires us the max. Instead of buying the cheap ST tires try buying the much better 8 or 10 ply ones. Jim

Looks like be it Marathons, or the 10 ply E rated Maxxis tires that I used last, it looks like 3 years is about all the safe towing I can get on an ST before they begin to fail. Typically prior to the ST tire days, I'd replace tires every 5 years. No failures no problems.

One the reasons for going this time to LT's was the pure economics. If I can get 5 years out of an LT, it will economically make more sense than sticking with ST's. Compound that with the damage caused by a blowout on the road, the $$ spent on the wheel upgrade and LT tires will come back as savings over the years.

Jack

Bruce B · 10-08-2013, 07:53 AM

Well,
I am replacing my ST's with LT Michelins.
I am adding shock absorbers and I am balancing the new drums (that is another story) so that I do not have to worry about special balancing techniques on the trailer.
I will as always report back....
Bruce

dannydimitt · 10-08-2013, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce B

Well,
I am replacing my ST's with LT Michelins.
I am adding shock absorbers and I am balancing the new drums (that is another story) so that I do not have to worry about special balancing techniques on the trailer.
I will as always report back....
Bruce

With the Michelins mounted and the STs in the trash where they belong , you'll be a "Happy Camper " for sure

Tireman9 · 10-08-2013, 05:28 PM

What does GY and Hunter say about the 80# roadforce measurement? I am sure there are GY dealers that use Hunter and similar equipment. I am pretty sure that GY does not ship tires with anywhere near 80# roadforce to any car or light truck manufacturer.
I use to have contacts that could give me the approx numbers but not since retirement.