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Old 04-22-2013, 11:39 AM   #29
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We have now towed our Airstream more than 10,000 miles on our Marathons.
They are round, perfectly balanced and hold air nicely. I have nice low Roadforce and balance numbers to back up my statements too.
We will be staying with these Marathons and I will report any failures (or lack thereof) on this thread in the future.
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:32 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Bruce B View Post
We have now towed our Airstream more than 10,000 miles on our Marathons.
They are round, perfectly balanced and hold air nicely. I have nice low Roadforce and balance numbers to back up my statements too.
We will be staying with these Marathons and I will report any failures (or lack thereof) on this thread in the future.
Bruce
Bruce,

Most all of them do well when they are new, and it helps you are not carrying much weight. I wish you luck with them, but I'd also make sure your insurance will cover the damages when one of them blows.
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:47 PM   #31
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Bruce,

Most all of them do well when they are new, and it helps you are not carrying much weight. I wish you luck with them, but I'd also make sure your insurance will cover the damages when one of them blows.
The "reality" is that single axel Airstreams carry more weight per tire than any airstream this side of a 28'. In spite of the reputation the Marathon tires have "on-line" when you talk to the people who do this for a living they report that they see no longer any issues with Marathons, in other words the failures are a thing of the past.

I did have one with a problem but Goodyear replaced it and I am monitoring this carefully (see my original posts in this thread). Most people would never have known the issue was there.

At rallies I see lots of Marathons on Airstreams with lots of miles without any failures . Most people say they have had no issues.

I am willing to bet that I will have a normal safe towing experience with these tires. Luck has nothing to do with my expectations.

Again, I make my living maintaining automobiles. I sell and install tires as part of this living. Every day we see people who drive on under inflated, badly worn, accident damaged or over aged tires. Sometimes we see the end results of a spectacular failure. Most have no idea anything is wrong until they drive away with good tires and comment "wow, the car feels better!!!"
Just this morning I watched someone driving across the Newport Bridge on a flat tire. The car was obviously aware that there was a problem as they had their emergency flashers on but they were still driving faster than 40 mph, chunks of tire flying off, sparks flying and all!

Buy your Michelins if you want. Michelin is my favorite tire company. If they made an ST tire I would be first in line....

Bruce
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Old 04-22-2013, 03:07 PM   #32
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The "reality" is that single axel Airstreams carry more weight per tire than any airstream this side of a 28'. In spite of the reputation the Marathon tires have "on-line" when you talk to the people who do this for a living they report that they see no longer any issues with Marathons, in other words the failures are a thing of the past.

I did have one with a problem but Goodyear replaced it and I am monitoring this carefully (see my original posts in this thread). Most people would never have known the issue was there.

At rallies I see lots of Marathons on Airstreams with lots of miles without any failures . Most people say they have had no issues.

I am willing to bet that I will have a normal safe towing experience with these tires. Luck has nothing to do with my expectations.

Again, I make my living maintaining automobiles. I sell and install tires as part of this living. Every day we see people who drive on under inflated, badly worn, accident damaged or over aged tires. Sometimes we see the end results of a spectacular failure. Most have no idea anything is wrong until they drive away with good tires and comment "wow, the car feels better!!!"
Just this morning I watched someone driving across the Newport Bridge on a flat tire. The car was obviously aware that there was a problem as they had their emergency flashers on but they were still driving faster than 40 mph, chunks of tire flying off, sparks flying and all!

Buy your Michelins if you want. Michelin is my favorite tire company. If they made an ST tire I would be first in line....

Bruce
Actually, I don't have Michelins on my trailer, it has B.F.Goodrich Commercial T/A's. (supposedly Michelin now owns BFG?) Anyway, I have friends that have many miles on the same tires, and have have quite a few miles on mine, all with no issues.

My 31' has a GVWR of 10,000 lbs., but I'm sure it's not really that heavy as we travel with it. (probably around 8500-9000)

Yes, I have talked to many tire dealers, and I've yet to have one tell me the tires that he has in stock, and currently selling has troubles. They'll only tell you the tires they used to sell had troubles, "but the ones we sell now are really good."

We have several people in our unit that have had troubles with the Marathons, and several that have had troubles with the Carlisle E rated. One to the tune of $7,000+ worth of damages. Marathon and Carlisle are the only "ST" brands you get here without jumping thru hoops.
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Old 04-23-2013, 10:40 AM   #33
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Is this what you mean by a bad sidewall? should this be replaced immediately? We do mostly 100 mile each way trips to camp, so no blasting across the desert for 5 hours at a time.
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To be as clear as possible. I can find one or more sidewall indentations in 90%+ of all radial tire types and sizes. Some have two or three such indentations. Indentations are not the problem. If there is a "hill" or "bump out" that indicates either an open splice (manufacturing) or a possible impact and break of a number of body cords. You have to be careful it there are two indentations a couple inches apart as the area between the indentations may initially look like a bump out.
Here is example of open body ply splice.

Here is an example of a sidewall impact that broke all the body cords over about 1" area.


Tire failure inspection and analysis is much like CSI and takes years of experience doing tire autopsies when examining many thousands of tires. I know of no tire dealers that have the training to do this job at the level of an "expert". I believe there is one other person on a few RV forums that has some experience in this area. There is at least one web site that posts examples of some hard to identify tire conditions.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:13 AM   #34
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That's exactly how my GYM's formed after 9000 miles. I had been checking pressure and looking closely at them from the beginning. After a short trip I noticed 2 larger bulges forming. I have a good relationship with my tire guy. I sat in his office while he tried to get to some help from his Goodyear representative. Nothing. He told me that in all the times he has tried to get warranty coverage from GY on a tire that is not brand new, they insist that the owner must have hit a curb and caused damage.
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Old 04-24-2013, 08:50 AM   #35
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That's exactly how my GYM's formed after 9000 miles. I had been checking pressure and looking closely at them from the beginning. After a short trip I noticed 2 larger bulges forming. I have a good relationship with my tire guy. I sat in his office while he tried to get to some help from his Goodyear representative. Nothing. He told me that in all the times he has tried to get warranty coverage from GY on a tire that is not brand new, they insist that the owner must have hit a curb and caused damage.
There are times I wonder if tires are too good. Tires no longer wear out in 15,000 miles. We don't carry two or three spare tires as was often the case in the 20's. For regular passenger car tires many people might only replace the original set one time and then after 40 - 50,000 miles, so many people think tires should never fail.
RV manufacturers do not provide a margin of load capacity as car manufacturers do. Therefore you are closer to the limit of a tires capability to absorb impact loading in your RV than in your car.
There is no such thing as a "Fail-Proof" tire. Sometimes the planets align and the speed, load, shock absorber wear or stiffness, and pot-hole size & depth & edge shape and even the angle of attack are such that under just slightly different circumstances the tire would not suffer damage.
When you hit something it is a "shock-load" and just as in fishing a 5# fish can break 10# line if it zigs when the fisherman zags.
I do not think it unrealistic for tire manufacturers to not have to replace tires if they suffer external damage such as a puncture or impact break. Some tire dealers will offer "road hazard" insurance. As with any insurance you have to weigh the costs vs the probability of getting such damage.
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:26 AM   #36
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There are times I wonder if tires are too good. Tires no longer wear out in 15,000 miles. We don't carry two or three spare tires as was often the case in the 20's. For regular passenger car tires many people might only replace the original set one time and then after 40 - 50,000 miles, so many people think tires should never fail.
RV manufacturers do not provide a margin of load capacity as car manufacturers do. Therefore you are closer to the limit of a tires capability to absorb impact loading in your RV than in your car.
There is no such thing as a "Fail-Proof" tire. Sometimes the planets align and the speed, load, shock absorber wear or stiffness, and pot-hole size & depth & edge shape and even the angle of attack are such that under just slightly different circumstances the tire would not suffer damage.
When you hit something it is a "shock-load" and just as in fishing a 5# fish can break 10# line if it zigs when the fisherman zags.
I do not think it unrealistic for tire manufacturers to not have to replace tires if they suffer external damage such as a puncture or impact break. Some tire dealers will offer "road hazard" insurance. As with any insurance you have to weigh the costs vs the probability of getting such damage.
I agree with all that, but the tires were not damaged, they were defective. Not a scratch on the sidewalls anywhere, I've never hit a curb or anything else with them. 2 of the 4 where fine.
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Old 04-24-2013, 08:22 PM   #37
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I shall never run ANY radial S T tire on anything that goes over 20 miles an hour. They make good plow , mower and disk tires . But never on an expensive Airstream.
Just sayin
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:21 PM   #38
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I shall never run ANY radial S T tire on anything that goes over 20 miles an hour. They make good plow , mower and disk tires . But never on an expensive Airstream.
Just sayin
Add me to that list. Putting $100 ST tires on an $80k+ AS, is beyond my comprehension. I had to go through three GYM blowouts before I decided to go the 16" Michelin LT route along with Centramtics on both my AS and my F-250. BTW, you can't get Centramatics for any 1/2 ton SUV or pickup, but you can for the 3/4-1 ton pickups.
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Old 04-25-2013, 03:40 AM   #39
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I agree with all that, but the tires were not damaged, they were defective. Not a scratch on the sidewalls anywhere, I've never hit a curb or anything else with them. 2 of the 4 where fine.
A couple of thoughts:

If the tires were defective, then the problem would have been there from the gitgo and not have developed over time.

Second, if they were defective, they would have been covered by the warranty and the dealer would have adjusted the tires without hesitation. The fact that the dealer called Goodyear says he did not believe they were defective and he was trying to get Goodyear to do something beyond the warranty - and was unsuccessful at doing so.
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:17 AM   #40
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I agree with all that, but the tires were not damaged, they were defective. Not a scratch on the sidewalls anywhere, I've never hit a curb or anything else with them. 2 of the 4 where fine.
I am curious. What was the defect? I am not asking what the condition of the tires when you removed them as condition is not the same as defect. I have covered this in depth in my blog on tire failure analysis.
Identifying the root cause for the condition is something few take the time to do or have the training or tools to do but maybe you can provide some pictures so we can educate others here.

As you know too often people simply say "The car won't start" and jump to the conclusion that something is wrong with the car, when in fact we do not know if a fuse is blown, something simply wore out, the car was hit by a truck or the car is out of gas.
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:24 AM   #41
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Add me to that list. Putting $100 ST tires on an $80k+ AS, is beyond my comprehension. I had to go through three GYM blowouts before I decided to go the 16" Michelin LT route along with Centramtics on both my AS and my F-250. BTW, you can't get Centramatics for any 1/2 ton SUV or pickup, but you can for the 3/4-1 ton pickups.
maybe that is a question best answered by Airstream. It is their choice to select a tire type and size that does not provide the safety margin used on cars & trucks or that is needed by the end user of their product.
I personally believe this is the result of the lack of a real interest in constant improvement in quality in the RV industry as a whole.
Why is the warranty on today's RVs about the same as we had from Detroit in 1970? I think that this absolves the RV manufacturer from having to do the hard work of doing the job of designing an RV better. If they can manage to deliver the RV to the buyer it appears that many are glad to wash their hands of any responsibility for what they assembled.
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Old 04-25-2013, 05:42 PM   #42
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maybe that is a question best answered by Airstream. It is their choice to select a tire type and size that does not provide the safety margin used on cars & trucks or that is needed by the end user of their product.
I personally believe this is the result of the lack of a real interest in constant improvement in quality in the RV industry as a whole.
Why is the warranty on today's RVs about the same as we had from Detroit in 1970? I think that this absolves the RV manufacturer from having to do the hard work of doing the job of designing an RV better. If they can manage to deliver the RV to the buyer it appears that many are glad to wash their hands of any responsibility for what they assembled.

I think much of it has to do with these factors:

1] Length of Ownership
2] Miles Travelled/Nights Aboard (in that period)

Of all the RV's on the road I imagine that few average more than 5k miles or 50-nights aboard on an annual basis. I've not researched this but it stands to reason that this low usage (compared a family car) might account for the shoddy practices of the RV industry as a whole as owners may not run into the whole host of problems the unit will eventually suffer. If the RV in question is kept less than 10-years (and I think this common), then "they" are off the hook.

After all, there are many will first buy when they are to retire, and then may buy another, all in less than ten years. Just check the odometer readings on used Class A mohos.

For those who consider an RV worthwhile such that -- akin to a sailboat -- that they may be using it twenty years hence, the design & construction are far more important (and questions of road performance rank more highly).

Among SOB owners it would not surprise me that ownership is about 5-ears. That over a thirty year period one may have had nearly a half-dozen units. Sort of like trading a car with a 15-yr working life every 5-years. I have seen this on other RV forums.

The oilfield man camps here in the Eagle Ford are just jammed with second owner 5-10 year old TT's and 5'ers. Deteriorating-in-place.

Airstream is no leader in technology as once they might have been seen.

Tires and brakes on the newest units are also at about the 1970 tech level, not just warranty.

ST tires are about good enough for a TT that is to be set in place and not moved again.

.
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