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Old 05-23-2015, 01:18 PM   #29
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the military switched to nitrogen years ago, to inflate aircraft tires.
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Old 05-23-2015, 01:41 PM   #30
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I have some Argon at work and Helium as well. The helium would leak out fast. I could be the only Airstream with Argon filled tires. Is that cool or what. The helium has the advantage that you can breathe it and talk like donald duck.

Perry
When I was a Pipe Welder we were using gym balls (dodge balls) to be used as dams for argon purging. We would inflate the balls with argon. Once filled, they felt much heavier. When thrown they bounced very little and made a strange "thwonk" noise. I would caution against using argon in that it could significantly change the dynamics of the suspension. I would also warn against using dodge balls filled with argon. First hand experience, they can drop you to the ground.

New member and starting my research in pursuit of an Airstream. I seem to be taking a different approach and have bought the tow vehicle first. I just bought a 2008 F250 4x4 crew cab with the v10 gasser. Figuring out the gas milage should be simple, just move the decimal point.
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Old 05-23-2015, 02:25 PM   #31
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Heck, we have a triple axle. I'm happy if all 6 tires just have a cap on the valve stem!
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Old 05-23-2015, 03:13 PM   #32
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Heck, we have a triple axle. I'm happy if all 6 tires just have a cap on the valve stem!
Yup.. Have those valve stem pressure and temp sensors.... Don't want to lose them!!!

As for nitrogen, there are advantages to them... Slower leak down because the atoms are bigger. But if you make a big enough hole, they will leak.

When compressed, "atmospheric air" will push out the water molecules it no longer has "room" for... But some usually remains. Now when you fill your tire, moisture is introduced. The water molecule is bigger than the other atoms in the "air" mixture inside the tire so the smaller atoms find their way "out" first. When you replace the lost air you reintroduce "compressed" air which has moisture...

The compressed nitrogen has a far lower "humidity/water" to gas volume ratio so the nitrogen can be "low/water free", due to the nature of it's inert state and manufacture.

I had a utility trailer on which the rims rusted.. Slow to rapid leaking after install of new tires as the rusty area was no longer allowing a good seal.... Even with Nitrogen installed.


Many "factors" to consider, however, I would prefer Nitrogen.... If I could find a reasonable way to have at home and transport additional Nitrogen.
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Old 05-23-2015, 03:53 PM   #33
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AS stated in another thread nitrogen is a gimmick for trailers and cars, for some one to make money on. Ask any one in high speed racing why they use nitrogen in tires, not in cars and trailers. Simple, waste of money, no heat build up. Moderators should group this thread with prev. thread as rehash same thing.
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Old 05-23-2015, 03:54 PM   #34
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Just maybe campers worry too much. Find an automobile maker that uses nitrogen. Find a tire manufacturer that recommends it.
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Old 05-23-2015, 04:46 PM   #35
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Nitrostream -vs- Airstream ??
Might catch on
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Old 05-23-2015, 06:50 PM   #36
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Tempest in a teapot.

Much ado about nothing.

But then: Fill your tire with compressed air, 78% nitrogen. Its molecules are larger than oxygen, so the oxygen leaks out first. Top up the tire with more air. Some oxygen leaks out. Top up again. Over time, you will have a higher concentration of nitrogen.

So what?

If it feels good, do it.
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Old 05-23-2015, 09:54 PM   #37
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Compressed "air" has about 80% nitrogen in it so that 20% may have water vapor or other "impurities" yet if you check your air pressure routinely you really don't need the 100% nitrogen filled tires.
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Old 05-23-2015, 11:45 PM   #38
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As for nitrogen, there are advantages to them... Slower leak down because the atoms are bigger. But if you make a big enough hole, they will leak.
The folks selling nitrogen inflation claim that nitrogen molecules are bigger than oxygen molecules and therefore leak out more slowly.

The trouble is, that just ain't true.

When this "nitrogen versus air" thing first came up years ago I consulted my trusty CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics and discovered that the atomic radii of oxygen and nitrogen were virtually identical. Just now I looked at Wikipedia and found that it has an excellent article on molecular size of gases:

Van der Waals radius - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here are the pertinent numbers:

Atomic radius of oxygen is 1.52 Angstrom units
Atomic radius of nitrogen is 1.55 Angstrom units

Not a lot of difference there.

Both oxygen (O2) and nitrogen (N2) are diatomic molecules, so the internuclear distance also comes into play. From the same Wikipedia article,

Internuclear distance for O2 is 1.208 Angstrom units
Internuclear distance for N2 is 1.0975 Angstrom units

In other words, an O2 molecule is slightly bigger than an N2 molecule.

And of course, air is 80% nitrogen to begin with.

So you can argue about nitrogen versus air inflation to your heart's content, but forget the idea that nitrogen leaks slower because the molecules are bigger. They're not.
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Old 05-24-2015, 08:55 AM   #39
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The same applies for aircraft and racing car tires comparison. Once you start using the trailer like a race car or an aircraft, N2 isn't going to help the end result. Because you have far more issues than tire pressure.

And operating your trailer like a trailer would mean the tires don't need N2 for the same usage as aircraft and race tires because of the far reduced speed and pressure.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
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Old 05-25-2015, 09:26 AM   #40
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Nitrogen filled tires works for me.

[QUOTE=Nuvite-F;1626028]The folks selling nitrogen inflation claim that nitrogen molecules are bigger than oxygen molecules and therefore leak out more slowly.

The trouble is, that just ain't true.


Atomic radius of oxygen is 1.52 Angstrom units
Atomic radius of nitrogen is 1.55 Angstrom units

Not a lot of difference there.
*******

Edited for my... purpose...

The important point missed is that O2 is highly corrosive and volatile. Nitrogen is INERT. Oxygen and Hydrogen are both volatile gases.

I understand that when a tire is mounted you already have an air mixture of that location, be it at Sea Level or high in the Rocky Mountains. Even then, when Nitrogen is used there will be LESS water vapor. It is water vapor that I would consider the least desirable of all possible contaminants in an air mixture.

Those "Free Air" small token operated systems have to be the worst possible choices when you need to add air pressure. They drip with water from my experience in Missouri.

My tow vehicle tires are filled with Nitrogen from Costco. If they offered an option of Compressed Air or Nitrogen... what would you pick? Right. Me too.
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Old 05-25-2015, 09:44 AM   #41
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I pick air. I get my tires at Discount, since Arizona is the home of Discount tire I am loyal to a local business.

In all fairness the air in Phoenix is relatively dry. I never use some one else's compressor to fill mounted tires and I have owned my TV for 18 years and the inside of the rim has far less corrosion than the outside of rims. (I trailer boat as well and the rear wheels get dunked.)

On edit I have 9 cars and trucks, 2 trailers and 4 motorcycles all with shop air in the tires.(don't ask me to ad up the number of tires and wheels) All vehicles are over 25 years of age except 3 vehicles and both trailers, the insides of all of the rims are very clean and smooth.

>>>>>>Action
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Old 05-26-2015, 06:24 AM   #42
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A couple of stray thoughts on nitrogen:

1) Yes, oxygen is a corrosive, but how many tires and wheels have you seen that are so corroded that they can not be used.

2) Don't forget that even if you start off with 100% nitrogen in the air chamber, oxygen will leak in through the tire (in much the same way the nitrogen will leak out.) The principal is called "The Partial Pressure of Gases Law".

3) It is a myth that nitrogen and air behave differently due to temperature. EVERYTHING I have seen says otherwise. (OK, for accuracy's sake, they behave ever so slightly differently, but not enough to make a difference!)
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