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12-02-2016, 06:49 PM
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#1
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3 Rivet Member
2017 16' Sport
Vernon
, Arizona
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 148
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Nitrogen in tires
I have a bit of trepidation putting a question on a "tire" thread as people are very passionate about them. However, I am bucking up my courage and askina question anyway :-)
So, on my Porsche I use Nitrogen in the tires as it keeps the tire pressure closer to the tire pressure I like to drive at +/- 3 PSI in comparison to regular oxygen at +/- 6-9 PSI (Cold plays havoc with tires). I was wondering if anyone has done that with the Airstream tires to create a more consistent temperature?
MsTara
__________________
“I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. "
― John Lennon
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12-02-2016, 07:59 PM
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#2
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Rivet Master
2018 27' International
Southeastern MI
, Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsTara
I have a bit of trepidation putting a question on a "tire" thread as people are very passionate about them. However, I am bucking up my courage and askina question anyway :-)
So, on my Porsche I use Nitrogen in the tires as it keeps the tire pressure closer to the tire pressure I like to drive at +/- 3 PSI in comparison to regular oxygen at +/- 6-9 PSI (Cold plays havoc with tires). I was wondering if anyone has done that with the Airstream tires to create a more consistent temperature?
MsTara
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Air is mostly nitrogen.
__________________
2018 International Serenity 27' FB
Michelin 16” tires
Hensley Arrow hitch
Tow Vehicle: 2020 F-350 6.7L Diesel
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12-02-2016, 09:07 PM
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#3
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Moderator dude
1966 26' Overlander
Phoenix
, Arizona
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,497
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Nitrogen in your tires may help you to feel better. In my opinion (unless you are racing or driving at speeds in triple digits) nitrogen has very little to no benefit in regular passenger and light truck applications.
As pointed out above the majority of regular air is nitrogen already. The difference in 99% nitrogen and regular air isn't going to give that much benefit.
If nitrogen made a significant difference, all tire manufacturers would have this on their website at least as a highly recommended thing, if not required for better service.
And tire inflation data is set up for cold inflation. Once set up and the tires heat up it is good to know the data however changing the inflation is only needed to increase pressure on a hot tire that was not inflated fully cold. NEVER remove air from a tire that is has been in service and is still hot.
>>>>>>>>>>>Action
__________________
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4 DR Breezeway 410 4V, C-6, 2.80 - Streamless.
1966 Lincoln 4 door Convertible 462 4V 1971 Ford LTD Convertible 429 4V Phoenix ~ Yeah it's hot however it's a dry heat!
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12-02-2016, 09:12 PM
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#4
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Rivet Master
2006 23' Safari SE
Biloxi
, Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 8,278
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Urban myth.
__________________
MICHAEL
Do you know what a learning experience is? A learning experience is one of those things that says "You know that thing that you just did? Don't do that."
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12-02-2016, 09:17 PM
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#5
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Walnut Creek
, California
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3,952
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The use of N2 is not a bad idea. It is just difficult to operationally maintain. Most folks do not have a high pressure bottle of N2 available to top off their tires. The more you travel on the road the more difficult it becomes. However, there are a lot of shops that stock N2 and will provide it at a reasonable cost.
Personally, I can not justify the use of N2, but I can not provide a negative argument against it if the advantage is worth the hassle to you.
Good luck with your consideration. Pat
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12-02-2016, 09:31 PM
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#6
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Rivet Master
2016 25' Flying Cloud
Venice
, Florida
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,024
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Well not unexpected, anything about tires brings out all the experts. Add nitro, get a green stem cover & be happy, I did!
__________________
Joe
Venice, FL
2016 FC 25RTB
TAC FL-47
2018 Nissan Titan XD Cummins Diesel
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12-03-2016, 06:00 AM
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#7
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4 Rivet Member
2021 16' Bambi
2021 22' Bambi
Currently Looking...
North Port
, Florida
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 331
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As you've seen in your personal experience, nitrogen does have a tighter pressure and temperature consistency than compressed air. That is why it's used in racing. My experience is in drag racing, so I've never had to use nitrogen, but my uncle is the tire tech for Mazda racing and this information has come from him. My tire guy also races Porsche's in endurance racing and he has told me the same thing. My car came filled with nitrogen from the factory, but not being able to top them off at home, or any local tire shops has changed that.
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12-03-2016, 06:10 AM
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#8
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CapriRacer
I'm in the
, US
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 989
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12-03-2016, 06:29 AM
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#9
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Rivet Master
2014 25' Flying Cloud
Cuddebackville
, New York
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,333
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No positives, no negatives for you. The positive is fir the shop that sells it to you.
__________________
2014 25' Flying Cloud Rear Twin
2019 Ford Expedition Platinum
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12-03-2016, 06:37 AM
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#10
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Rivet Master
2018 27' International
Southeastern MI
, Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne&Sam
No positives, no negatives for you. The positive is fir the shop that sells it to you.
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Once you contaminate the nitrogen with air do you have to purge the tires and refill them to keep from contaminating them with air? And when you pull a vacuum on tires doesn't that break the bead? I guess they would need to be mounted in a room with nothing but nitrogen in it, by a tech wearing an SCBA?
__________________
2018 International Serenity 27' FB
Michelin 16” tires
Hensley Arrow hitch
Tow Vehicle: 2020 F-350 6.7L Diesel
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12-03-2016, 07:06 AM
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#11
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Rivet Master
1981 31' Excella II
New Market
, Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,145
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This sight has the facts but your tires are not going to fall off your vehicle if you use air. The O2 reacts with and ages the rubber and will leak out of the tire slightly faster than N2. The moisture that is in air helps the O2 corrode the rim and age the rubber. N2 is used in Aircraft tires to prevent corrosion, rubber aging, and reduce fire hazards. Airplane tires are expensive and are exposed to temperature and pressure extremes that you don't see in car tires. N2 won't hurt your tires but it is probably not worth it unless you are trying to preserve tires for a long period of time. Most car tires wear out before they fail for other reasons. The corrosion issues are a concern for stuff that sits in the yard and never gets hot enough to push out water that sits between the rim and tire. I have old trailers with steel rims that leak because of rust between the rim and tire. I have access to N2 at work but don't bother putting it in my tires.
http://www.nitrogendirect.com/N2Info.htm
Perry
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12-03-2016, 07:30 AM
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#12
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Rivet Master
1988 25' Excella
1987 32' Excella
Knoxville
, Tennessee
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,095
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If it works in the Porsche it will work in the Airstream.
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12-03-2016, 08:12 AM
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#13
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3 Rivet Member
2017 16' Sport
Vernon
, Arizona
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 148
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For all of those who didn't go down the... "it's a myth and you are being scammed" I appreciate your comments.
I also have a background in IndyCar Racing and that is where I have seen the tight controlled temperatures as well as my own personal experience with the temperature control in my own personal tires and how close it stays to the optimal pressure without the 6-9 PSI pressure difference.
I want to thank PKI, you are right about filling up your tires on the road. There has been multiple times I have had to take my car into the shop and release the tire that has had oxygen put into it for emergency purposes and now is off by over 3 PSI from the others and have nitrogen put into it.
I look forward to more healthy discussion.
MsTara
__________________
“I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. "
― John Lennon
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12-03-2016, 08:50 AM
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#14
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Rivet Master
1981 31' Excella II
New Market
, Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,145
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Moisture is probably responsible for a lot of the ills that the O2 gets blamed for. Dry air would most likely give you more consistent tire pressures as well. The Aircraft industry says no more than 5% total O2 content if you have to top off with air. At NASA we have something called missile grade air which is dry and clean. This is used more than N2 because of the hazards of N2 in confined spaces such as buildings.
Perry
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12-03-2016, 10:29 AM
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#15
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Rivet Master
1962 28' Ambassador
1961 19' Globetrotter
1962 26' Overlander
Mesa
, Arizona
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,996
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I have nitrogen in my small European import. The nitrogen was highly touted when we bought the car several years ago. But since then, when I need air in my tires places like discount tire and more won't air them up because they have nitrogen.
We then put air in from our compressor or take it to the dealership and they put....air in.
Confused
I finally asked them to replace the valve stem caps with regular caps instead if the green ones.
__________________
Hittenstiehl
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12-03-2016, 10:42 AM
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#16
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Rivet Master
2006 25' Safari FB SE
Spokane
, Washington
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,843
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MsTara, if you want nitrogen in your trailer tires then do it. Nitrogen will not harm your tires. Benefits? Well those are small by any measure and as long as your nitrogen doesn't cost anything, no harm done.
I find it interesting that proponents talk about the advantages for race cars and jet planes when trying to justify their little green valve caps. I don't plan on driving my airstream at race car speed nor do I plan to travel at 30,000 plus elevations and I am surely not going to do any carrier landings with my 25FB.
If air is such a bad thing for tires how do the shops remove all of it before they inflate with nitrogen?
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12-03-2016, 10:54 AM
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#17
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3 Rivet Member
1973 31' Excella 500
Vicksburg
, Mississippi
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aftermath
If air is such a bad thing for tires how do the shops remove all of it before they inflate with nitrogen?
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They fill then purge the tire numerous times until nitrogen is concentrated and oxygen and moisture reduced.
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12-03-2016, 11:00 AM
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#18
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Rivet Master
2018 27' International
Southeastern MI
, Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,344
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For all the axle weighing, cat scales and spec sheets I see on here I'm surprised no one has tried helium in the tires lol.
__________________
2018 International Serenity 27' FB
Michelin 16” tires
Hensley Arrow hitch
Tow Vehicle: 2020 F-350 6.7L Diesel
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12-03-2016, 11:02 AM
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#19
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3 Rivet Member
2014 16' Sport
Route 66
, Arizona
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 162
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SR 71 Blackbird used nitrogen in tires, so perhaps it works well for Airstreams. Especially the new ones that tow at 2300 mph over mountain passes of 90,000 feet and made with top secret aluminum to withstand skin temps over 500F.
As for my lowly Sport, plain old air works just fine.
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12-03-2016, 11:46 AM
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#20
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Rivet Master
1981 31' Excella II
New Market
, Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,145
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Aircraft have special needs. A car or truck has a lifetime of about 10 yrs. By that time it has been through 2-3 sets of tires. Corrosion and tire rot have not had time to occur. I expect tires on airplanes are inspected at least yearly and may be kept for a long time till they fail inspection or are worn out. Most airplanes are used for decades so a little corrosion is a problem over that lifetime. I expect tires are used for longer periods of time and the O2 in there will accelerate aging and also pose a fire hazard. Unless you keep vehicles for decades with little mileage, or drive race cars at 200 MPH you likely won't see much benefit. It might not be a bad idea on trailer tires on something high dollar like an Airstream but for the tow vehicle, I can't see it unless you only put 5k miles a year on it and you plan on keeping it pristine for 30 yrs. It seems like some on here are buying a $60k tow rig every year or so which is not enough to even break it in good. If you are OCD and that is your thing, then it can't hurt anything. If you have enough money to afford a Porsche or $60k tow vehicle then $30 a tire for N2 is cheap.
Perry
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