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Old 04-11-2011, 10:13 PM   #29
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At a dollar a tire, maybe. At $30 a tire? Come on folks!

Brian
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:00 PM   #30
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ARGON
I am for running by the welding shop and filling up with argon..Besides a welding shield it is used to insulate glass panels. from R1-to R4 and Krypton will raise the R value also. You can now get a Insulated glass panel with Heat Mirror with R-20 insulation. That is four times the famous government Star rating..
Here is a propaganda calculator on what it will save by driving on Nitrogen.
Nitrogen in Tires : Information about Nitrogen Tire Inflation News, Benefits, Generator Dealers, Location Finder & More
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:05 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
Bunkum, can only be supported by data, not opinions.

Measure the temperature and you will see a difference, as we have done.

Andy
I am prepared to retract my categorization of this practice as "bunkum" if you can supply a description of a well-designed experiment and the results you obtained.

A well designed experiment would have to control for variations between tires, differences in suspension, effects of trailer brakes, and would require careful measurement of cold tire pressure as well as a controlled means of reading tire temperature.
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:34 PM   #32
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Absolutely, Nitrogen is legitimate. Pure Nitrogen holds pressure better, reduces heat, and reduces moisture. You should only pay @ $5 per tire and receive free fills for the life of the tire. BTW, I spent this past weekend camped at the Barber Motorsports Park for the Honda Indy Car race and Brian France (of NASCAR) was parked near me in his RV (I presume he was there to watch the Gran-Am race that occurred before the Indy race). Anyway, his tires had green valve caps ... LOL, I guess Brian France is falling for bunk too?
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:43 PM   #33
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I wonder whether Mr. France pays for his green valve caps or whether the purveyors of nitrogen tire filling equipment pay him.
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:46 PM   #34
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Good point regarding cost. Nitrogen is legitimate is my point. However, I appreciate that whether or not you should use nitrogen is a function of cost and access.
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Old 04-12-2011, 12:18 AM   #35
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Jammer, I doubt I'm capable of changing your mind but well designed experiments have been done on Oxygen Attack. Oxygen Attack is something both the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and Ford Research have studied. Each study found Oxygen can be a problem for tires used or stored for a long time.

I'm not trying to persuade you to use Nitrogen because I agree that it is debatable whether the cost and inconvenience of Nitrogen is justified. However, I am trying to convince you that nitrogen isn't pure bunk.
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Old 04-12-2011, 09:51 AM   #36
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Exclamation Let's get up to date.

You are all way behind technology on this subject.

I use 100 per cent hydrogen in all my tires. It is much lighter than air or nitrogen and therefore increases your load carrying capacity by decreasing total empty weight. Obviously the ride is much softer, because hydrogen is fluffier that air.

It also reduces inside oxidation of the tire, because the free hydrogen will combine with any stray oxygen and form harmless water. Since this is water formed under a high pressure, it is called heavy water.

This heavy water can be used for the generation of atomic power. The power generated can be used to separate hydrogen and oxygen from water, thus making this system nearly self supporting.

This practice is also very environmentally friendly. If you are in an accident, the ensuing violent explosion of the rupturing tires will reduce all the wreckage to light ash, and clean up will be much easier. The discovery of this phenomenon lead to development of the hydrogen bomb.

If you think about this system you will soon see that it makes just as much sense as spending 10 dollars per tire to raise the already 78% nitrogen in your tires to probably somewhere around 90% or so.

You can't argue with physics.

Remember, innovation is the key to progress.

Ken
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Old 04-12-2011, 10:05 AM   #37
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Heres one answer.

Cisco Air Systems - Aftermarket Solutions

Andy
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Old 04-12-2011, 10:13 AM   #38
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Here's another one.

Andy

Nitrogen Tire Filling - Parker Nitrogen TyreSaver Tire Wand for Tire Inflation with Nitrogen Gas Handheld Generator
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Old 04-12-2011, 10:22 AM   #39
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Finally, a rational approach.
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Old 04-12-2011, 11:37 AM   #40
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Jammer, I doubt I'm capable of changing your mind but well designed experiments have been done on Oxygen Attack. Oxygen Attack is something both the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and Ford Research have studied. Each study found Oxygen can be a problem for tires used or stored for a long time.

I'm not trying to persuade you to use Nitrogen because I agree that it is debatable whether the cost and inconvenience of Nitrogen is justified. However, I am trying to convince you that nitrogen isn't pure bunk.
Not at all. It would take little to convince me that there is somewhat less deterioration of the tires through oxidation when the tires are filled with nitrogen. The effect would be limited on tires in actual use because the amount of oxygen available for such a reaction would be limited to the relatively small amount present in the inflated portion of the wheel. In storage it could be more of a problem since an unlimited supply would circulate.

I suppose if this were something that really needed to be solved there would be provisions for attaching oxygen absorber packets to the rim somewhere. The packaging industry has pretty much switched to those instead of gaseous nitrogen because it's more convenient.

But I'm not going to believe that it makes the tires run cooler without hard evidence.
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Old 04-12-2011, 11:46 AM   #41
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Finally, a rational approach.
Where did you see that, Wayne&Sam? The two links I just read were commercials for companies selling equipment to put nitrogen into tires. All I saw there was their opinion.

Or did I miss something?
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Old 04-12-2011, 11:57 AM   #42
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All you have to do is add a second valve stem 180 degrees and use it as a vent for several seconds.. I wonder what color it should be, then you don't have to deflate the tire 5 or 6 times to get there. To make this pay off I think you would need to go get a $60 regulator and rent a bottle of gas for a year. Nitrogen is $14 for 225 cu ft @around 2300# $6. per month bottle rent.

At $10 a tire you can invest $80 dollars (regulator and Gas) and clear $1000+. I could be a little off just guessed 2 cu ft. per tire. Don't think my conscience could ever justify charging $30.

The science may be there but the application sucks. I noticed the efficiency drops off a lot if you check your tire pressure often.

HYDROGEN-Don't try this at home The flammability limits (4-75% of hydrogen in air at normal temperature, wider at high temperatures[12]), its autoignition temperature at 571°C, its very low minimum ignition energy, and its tendency to form explosive mixtures with air, require provisions to be made for maintaining the hydrogen content within the generator above the upper or below the flammability limit at all times, and other hydrogen safety measures. When filled with hydrogen, overpressure has to be maintained as inlet of air into the generator could cause a dangerous explosion in confined space. The generator enclosure is purged before opening it for maintenance, and before refilling the generator with hydrogen. During shutdown, hydrogen is purged by an inert gas, then the inert gas is replaced by air; the opposite sequence is used before startup. Carbon dioxide or nitrogen can be used for this purpose, as they do not form combustible mixtures with hydrogen and are inexpensive. Gas purity sensors are used to indicate the end of the purging cycle, which shortens the startup and shutdown times and reduces consumption of the purging gas. Carbon dioxide is favored as due to very high density difference it is easily displaced by hydrogen.

Wes
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