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Old 01-09-2016, 06:09 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by tjdonahoe View Post
St radials are made the same as p or Lt radial, look it up, the st has heavier cords ,so they have a heavier weight rating than p.and the st are china manufactured...
Nope, the Avion's Maxxis STs & my 88 VW Van's LTs are both mfgd. in Indonesia, as are the Nexens on our 85 BMW 325e, & all are much better tires than the prior set of US made ones, or than the OE Michelins on both cars (we're original owners).

PS - Also TJ, I did look it up & extensively researched it with manufacturers & tire experts - STs, P, LT & many other types of tires today are purpose-built engineered/designed & made differently for the various applications. If this were not the case & all tires were made the same, then there would only be one tire made for all types of cars, trucks/suvs, trailers, snow/ice, all weather, racing, etc., etc. Your comment is just off base & incorrect, unless you're talking about tires from the early 1900s.

Very few tires are actually made in the USA anymore - nor in Germany or France or even Japan, unfortunately. Check where your Bridgestones are made on the tires - probably not Japan anymore.

Some folks have also had problems with the Goodyear Marathons ST, but again, that may be due to many other factors.

The Maxxis on our 20' Avion are M8008 ST225/75R/15 D Rated FYI of anyone looking at them .... I just checked them (Thanx Laurie ;-).

PS - Link here for all sizes of this Maxxis tire:
http://www.maxxis.com/catalog/tire-1...t-radial-m8008

Best!
Tom
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Cheers!
Tom
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Old 01-09-2016, 06:31 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
As of this writing, our Michelin XPS Ribs are 5 years old and have about 35-40,000 miles on them, with absolutely no problems.
==========

Additional comment:

ST and LT tires are not made the same, as evidenced by their weight:

OEM GYM 225/75x15 ST = 31 pounds (2 steel belts)

Michelin LTX MS2 P235/75/15 XL = 32 pounds (2 steel belts)

Michelin LTX MS2 LT225/75x16 E = 38 pounds (3 steel belts)

Michelin XPS Rib LT225/75x16 E = 49 pounds (3 steel belts, plus sidewall = 1 ply steel)
Your line about your Michi's which I italicized above is very misleading to the uninformed reading this forum.

Unless you're Superman with Xray vision, there is absolutely NO WAY anyone can know the INTERIOR condition of the rubber & belts INSIDE the tire sidewalls, mounting beads & tread sections!

That is why the pretty much universal recco is to change them at 5 years - regardless of how much tread is left.

The problem with age & use wear at 5 years, is that you can't see inside the rubber to tell whether nor how much they're degrading & disintegrating - even with great tread remaining.

Continue to run on over 5 year old trailer tires & over 7 year old vehicle tires at your own risk!

I just changed out all tires on our 2 daily drivers last year with 75-85% tread remaining, due to both age & micro-cracking in the sidewalls & treads. they were probably a bit past due, & the cracking was earlier than 7 years, but then we have more ozone etc. in the Sunny SoCal air to break down the rubber sooner.

And tire weight has little to do with tire design, construction or purpose for which they're built - it's another non-factor, & probably more related to the rubber compounds' weight, & belts are based on the design purpose - trailer or powered vehicle, as I explained above.

ST tires are designed for limited sidewall flex & lower rolling resistance for an object being pulled more easily - as opposed to the one doing the pulling, which needs to dig in for traction pulling, & flex for traction on turns. Traction on a trailer is counterproductive.

ST tires are designed for trailers, LT are designed for light trucks - can you use either - yes, do you have to use LTs on a trailer - no - what is more important are the proper sizing & maintenance, & using them in the proper speed & heat ranges for either type.

Cheers!
Tom
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Old 01-09-2016, 06:52 PM   #17
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Tom T, thanks for your post. To date our 15" GYM have been fine but the time to replace them is approaching. While I can understand people wanting to go to something that can allow them to travel faster, I too really hope that it does not lead to their trailer shaking apart (more figurative than literal). Your comment "Vehicles are designed with the tires as an integrral part of the suspension system & ride comfort" is so on target. Just changing out tires based on load capacity and size might not be enough for the overall enhancement of the trailer. This is something that requires a deep understanding of the trailer, something that can only be performed by AS. Well, I asked AS a few months back if they had any dynamic analysis that could be used to determine the vibration effect due to tire size change. They told me "we do not have any testing on the difference between the 15” and the 16” tires on vibration of our trailers."

I guess we are all suppose to provide the engineering analysis and data collection for AS.
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Old 01-09-2016, 07:00 PM   #18
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For those of you who absolutely must have LT tires, you might consider the Maxxis ones at this link below.

Bravo Series UE-168(N) | Maxxis Tires USA

We've had their LT205/70R14C 8PR ones on our `88 VW Vanagon CamperGL Westfalia for a year now, & are as good as or better than the OEM original Michelins were when we bought it new in 4/88. They ride nice, reasonable low road noise (VW Vanagons are noisy anyway), good dry & wet traction, deeper tread design so reasonably good in snow & off-pavement. However, they're still powered vehicle tires - not trailer tires.

Goodyear & Michelin are not the only nor necessarily the best tires around in every application, & same for Firestone, Bridgestone, Yokhama, Hankook, Pirelli, Continental, Dunlop, Vredestein & many, many others out there.

It serves you well to read up on the tires tests & ratings for your vehicle or trailer, as well as good ole Consumer Reports.

BTW - I had a tread separation within the first 8,000 miles of the last set of the OEM Michelins on southbound I-15 through Corona to Elsinore stretch in SoCal at the 70 mph speed limit on a 65 degree day/morning. And those tires were made specifically for Vanagons for VW - due to the Vano's relatively narrow track width to height (narrow Euro streets you know), high center of gravity, about 4500-5000+ lbs. for a wet & loaded camper or transporter van with a full load to GVWR.

Additionally, I know a few other Vanagon & Westy owners with the same bad experiences with those Michelins - & they were still made in France in the 1980s-90s then.

So the Michi-Man is NOT perfect either, by far!

Cheers!
Tom
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Old 01-09-2016, 07:07 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCabin View Post
While I can understand people wanting to go to something that can allow them to travel faster, ....
To be clear, I did not say that the LT tires allowed a higher than 65 mph on the trailer application.

To the contrary, all the tire & trailer mfgrs. do NOT recommend towing over 65 mph with any tires - ST, nor LT P-XL, etc.

No comment on whether I've broken that rule on occasion or not.

PS - Their lack of any test data doesn't surprise me, since AS flies seat of the pants since the Wally days, but their quality slipped in the 90's I think, when the ownership changed. I think the vintage ones were better made than the current ones as all the AS restorers will say, & they used to advertise the Avions as "better than the AS" with which the restorers also agree (sorry AS folks).

Be Safe!
Tom
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Old 01-09-2016, 07:22 PM   #20
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Note About Loose Rivets

One of the most common areas on all riveted trailers to have loose & popped rivets over time is at the belly pans.

This is due to the undercarriage airflow (which the belly pans are there to smooth out), that causes constant buffeting of those pans at speed. So they probably experience to most movement as anywhere on the trailer, & thereby wear through the rivet shafts & heads, as well as stretching & enlarging out the rivet holes in the skins.

So it's a fact of life that you'll be re-riveting over time with any of these trailers - whether AS/Argosy, or the other "Silver Beauty" vintage kin (Avion, Silver Streak, etc.).

Keep 'Em Tight with New Rivets!
Tom
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Old 01-25-2016, 04:11 PM   #21
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We have a lot of missing rivets on the interior .... I would love any input...

Thank you in advance,
Laurie F.
Ventura, CA


I'm sure others can chime in here but I'm wondering...

1) In a warm west coast environment with a load constantly on them, how long will torsion axles last on these newer models? Could the rubber cords be hardening due to non-use and causing the rivet loss?

2) Could use on rough roads with overinflated tires or too much tension on the tongue by mismatched leveling bars be a factor?

3) Whenever someone with a later model trailer which no longer has the front frame plate to body connector (see double row of rivets behind propane tanks on older trailers) says they are experiencing rivet loss-or worse: cracks in wraps or around door-I think of checking the attaching points around the belt line. This is a documented failure on longer trailers.

4) It's never too soon to check for floor rot which can cause movement and rivet loss.

Granted, this is a small trailer and the rivet loss probably isn't related to the above issues but...worth checking? Especially if someone is not the original owner?
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Old 01-25-2016, 05:30 PM   #22
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I've been deeply involved in this tire dilemma over a few different threads. I've decided to replace my new 3000 miles old GYM tires. Embarking on a cross country adventure in May & doing it on GYM was not an option. After all the reading, research, various comments, I've decided to go with Maxxis E-10 ply ST tires. I've learned they are the best trailer tire on the market, Michelin LTX seem to do well ( although not intended for trailers) in the 15" application but I'll stick with a 10 ply ST tire.
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Old 01-27-2016, 04:59 AM   #23
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Regards to rivets popping.

Generally when we see a lot of rivets popping in an Airstream the first thing we do is check the tire balance. We almost always find a Marathon with a shifted belt or a tire(s) way out of balance. We have never found a bad Michelin so we tend to stick with what is working well. The added benefit is that they do ride much smoother which also helps with the rivet issue.

We have had plenty of failures of Maxis tires on some of the box brands we sell. Mainly with 235/80 x 16" size. We don't have any products with them in 15" so they may be fine in that application but I would never suggest them to one of our clients based on our 16" experience.

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Old 01-27-2016, 07:23 AM   #24
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Andrew T

Thank you for sharing your experience. Your post are greatly appreciated.


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Old 01-27-2016, 07:36 AM   #25
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On my big truck, with a gross of 100,000 lbs and going down the road with 14,500 on the steering axle there will be no off the wall tires as it could mean my life. Bridgestone, michelin and bf Goodrich have served me well for the past 1.4 million miles on this truck, as for the trailer they have the same tires as the steering axle, never heard of a st tire for big trucks, I have michelins on my as.and they are manufactured in the USA , not in some weird out of the way location where they aren't used, .can't afford the damage if a tire blows out ...st just has heavier cords to raise the weight rating of that particular sized tire, at under 65 mph. There are no bargains out there , you get what you pay for..
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Old 01-27-2016, 07:45 AM   #26
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Regards to rivets popping.

Generally when we see a lot of rivets popping in an Airstream the first thing we do is check the tire balance. We almost always find a Marathon with a shifted belt or a tire(s) way out of balance. We have never found a bad Michelin so we tend to stick with what is working well. The added benefit is that they do ride much smoother which also helps with the rivet issue.

We have had plenty of failures of Maxis tires on some of the box brands we sell. Mainly with 235/80 x 16" size. We don't have any products with them in 15" so they may be fine in that application but I would never suggest them to one of our clients based on our 16" experience.

Andrew T
We're the maxxis tires LT, ST or P tires.
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Old 01-27-2016, 09:10 AM   #27
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We're the maxxis tires LT, ST or P tires.
The Maxxis brand only has the ST in 235/80R16. I believe this is an ST only size.
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Old 01-27-2016, 09:24 AM   #28
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Correct. I was thinking if the LT 235/85/16.8
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