Michelin P235/75R15 LTX for use as a trailer tire??

[Streamside]

I hate to bring this up but here goes.

I have read most of the threads(treads) on trailer tires out there. Many begin the the same thing, load range d, load range e, change the rims, and so on. I need new tires and had another thought.

Here are my question and assumptions as I look around. I have a 25'Excella that should not go heavier than about 76-7800 lbs locked and loaded. That would mean that I could in theory have a tire rated at just under 2000 pounds and that would be just fine. It really wouldn't matter what the load rating is, as long as the tire is rated to carry the load at the given pressure.

I found on the Michelin web the titled tire, Michelin P235/75R15 LTX, which apparently meets the criteria although it measures about 1/2 inch taller than the standard GYM's, which would mean that the trailer would ride 1/4 inch higher, not a big deal as long as it fits.

The tire is rated at 1985@50psi which would mean that I could have a "softer" ride for the AS, have a higher quality tire than a trailer tire, I could actually have a "warrantee!" and maybe sleep better while driving...Ok, maybe not sleep but feel better. Any thoughts as to putting these on vs GYM's.
Thanks

[Andrew T]

We use the 235/75R x 15 LT Michelins on Airstreams all the time and we have for several years. They work extremely well with far better reliability, smoother ride, and more traction for stopping espessially in the wet. They fit fine in the wheel well.

As near as I can tell Travel Trailer Tire just means not good enough to use on a car.

Andrew T

[Streamside]

Sorry, max GVRW is 7300 not 7800

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, are we on the same page? Original posted said "P" and Andrew said "LT".

[Streamside]

I stand by the cut and paste directly from the Michelin web. In any event, does it really matter. I am really looking for the basic information as to tire capacity and does it really need to be a "trailer" tire.

The Michelin that I reference from their site has what appears to have the load carrying capacity and is definitely not a trailer tire. So does it matter?

[RLS]

Sorry, I would not use them. I know Michelins are very good tires, but 1985 lbs. is not enough for me to sleep good about. What if you have a blow out? is the one tire going to hold up 3,700 lbs.? JMHO

[barts]

I'd pick a tire w/ a bit more margin - but I also run Michelin truck tires. I have never had problems w/ them on our truck; they also seem to work really well on the trailer and have great traction when I really need to use the brakes.

- Bart

[r carl]

I would stick with ST or LT tires. When figuring capacities and weights, give yourself a good saftey factor.

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by 2001excella

I am really looking for the basic information as to tire capacity and does it really need to be a "trailer" tire.

The Michelin that I reference from their site has what appears to have the load carrying capacity and is definitely not a trailer tire. So does it matter?

For years in the past and before the introduction of radial tires Airstream used 700 15 LT bias ply truck tires, and they did not have the problems we have with the ST tires today. We have some people in our unit that use the 700's today, some bias ply, and some radial, and they do not seem to have any troubles with them. So, based on that, I don't believe you must use ST tires.

Look also at the Michelin 235/75 X 15 "XL" tires, as they have a greater weight capacity than the "C" rated tires.

[Streamside]

Many of you indicate that you need a greater "margin of safety" and would go with a higher rated tire. That confuses me a little as I thought that the GVWR dictated the "maximum" weight for the trailer. Having tires rated above that value would seem to not increase a safety margin for the trailer if the axles were the limiting factor. I keep from going up to the maximum weight for the axles and keep to about 90% or less. 6620 is the cat scale axle reading hitched loaded and level. That is about 90% of rated and with tires above that, I guess I might feel comfortable. Ok, I understand that a tire might fail more readily than an axle, but do we go out and replace our axles too when we get a flat and overload that side axle? I know that GYM's would give me about 10000 lbs capacity for the trailer, but I would never overload the trailer to that weight. And, if I had a blow-out on one side, the GYM left working is still under-rated to carry the entire load. What safety margin do we have left in that case.

Do we really believe in capacities (axles, tires, breaking) and keeping to a safety margin that is comfortable for us or do we take it to the limit. I curently have towmasters on and have run the comfortably down the road at 65 in the heat of death valley in mid summer...no issues, keep them inflated properly, but do not streatch it to the max on the GVWR...the 90% rule has worked for me...so far.

And as far as capacities are concerned, as long as the tire rating exceeds the axle rating, should we worry? Does it really matter if it is a "trailer tire" vs a "light truck" or a "p metric" as long as it can carry the load?

[Streamside]

Well, I think I am through with my search for an answer. I just got off of the phone with Michelin (yes, a real person) , talking to their transport division. From the conversation that I had, Michelin said that they would "NOT recommend any of their tires for use on a travel trailer." They indicated that the ST tires have a special sidewall construction and using anything else than ST tires would pose a "safety issue". due mainly to the construction of the side-wall of the tire. They recommended that I use only ST tires, even though they do not manufacture those.

Looks like I will be going back to GYM's...the original tire that came on the AS.

[2airishuman]

2001'...

we had a lengthy exchange of posts on this tire 2 months ago...

you can read user reports from folks who actually R rolling on this tire...

they all have a one common thread in their streaming experience.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...5-a-67720.html
________

it should not be surprising that the folks working for M' would not officially recommend using this tire 4 this application.

regulations, liablity issues, warranty claims and so on are all in play.

years of experience by one shop offering up there honest feedback matter...

ratings matter.

design, construction, sizing and so on matter.

intended purpose matters.

the real question 4 each of us is WHICH set of metrics matter most?
__________

ST tires seem to be constructed more like the early radial tires

used by the big 3 (and benz) on their sloppy rolling cars from the 70s.

they are 'roundish' in profile, perhaps made with larger cords and with a few modern improvements.

the tread pattern and compounds are multipurpose and with HIGHER uv resistance.

tire technology has mushroomed in ALL tire types EXCEPT st tires...

it would be nice to see some meaningful innovation in the ST class,

but lacking that, folks try cross purpose uses from P or LT or bicycle tires for their streams...

some of these experiments work out, others don't.
__________

IF one really wants to use and understand the ratings it can get complicated.

load range does NOT equal load index.

E X T E N D E D (prolonged) carrying of a given load is different than briefly carry the same load.

car/truck tires are OCCASIONALLY loaded to higher levels with cornering or braking or accelerating.

trailer tires are more centrally mounted and continuously loaded.

car tires are designed for speeds up to 186 mph (300 kph).

even frantic trailer jockeys go faster than 80 mph.

when P metric tires are used for trucks or vans the 'load index' is supposed to be REDUCED by a factor of ~10%.

>>>> do you understand THAT one specific issue ?
__________

the M' LTX line includes a variety of tires/tread patterns...

in load indexes from 101 to 104 to 108 and with a variety of speed ratings.

your OP references 1985 lbs, so it would appear U are looking at the LTX M/S (NOT the m/s 2 or a/t 2 )

-are these 3 tire models better constructed and more rigorously tested than ST tires?

probably.

-are these 3 tire models capable of FUNCTIONing as trailer tires.

probably.

-are they used by folks with streams?

yes.
___________

IN YOUR case (6600 lbs /4= 1650 PER tire, the trailer would be well withIN the load index for this P metric...

even after reducing the 1985 lb rating by 10%.

-could this tire work on your stream.

yes.

-would it be a better built, more modern tire than the typical ST offerings?

yes.

and it would probably last for MORE MILEs and have fewer nagging issues often reported here (like side wall defects or separation)

-would it be MORE heat and speed tolerant?

probably, yes.
___________

the side wall is actually STIFFER on these M' LTX series tires, when compared to ST tires.
___________

-would you have warranty coverage IF the the vendor was made aware of HOW they are used?

NO.
___________

so imo that tire CAN work on yer 25 and might present fewer problems that ST tires...

((no where do you mention EVER having any problems with ST tires ?))

but warranty cover would be IFFY.
___________

finally, your claim/notion about 'softer ride' is totally baseless...

it appears u r assuming that a P metric tire at 50 psi will ride softer than an ST at 55-65 psi.

that is a COMPLETELY incorrect conclusion.

just for reference,

i've got many sets of tires that are inflated to 35-40 psi

and they ALL ride much harder/firmer than the ST tires at 65-70 psi...

and in COLD weather they ride like rocks, will the ST tires are supple in all seasons.
_______

it great to experiment with tire options

but one really needs to understand what/why/how and WHEN it's appropriate.

or take the advice and guidance of experts...

the OTHER thread on this tire has user reports and expert reports...

that info CONFLICTs with the M' expert, probably for liablity reasons.

and it doesn't jive with the OEM stuff a/s dishes out.

cheers
2air'

[Streamside]

Didn't see that thread until later last night. interesting reading.

I'll just pass on the Michelin's after talking to their Rep. When a manufacturer talks "Safety issues" they really do mean liability. And, If they, the tire manufacturers, are not willing to take on the liability, then why should I ??? I am sure they have really good reasons when they do not recommend their tires. I am sure, now that I have has some talking time on the phone with reps, I would never be able to win a court battle using a non-ST tire on a TT that originally came with ST tires.

I have never had a flat on a trailer tire, even the one that I haul debris to the dump with. It probably has that nail avoidance system which is really just the TV tires that the trailer tires track in. Those get the nails first and have gotten flat.

And yes, in part my assumption on softer ride was based on the 50 vs 65 but to be honest, I have never ridden back there. Havn't quite figured out how do do that but it would be nice to get a cold soda from the fridge while cruising 65. But my other part of my assumption is the difference my LTX's make on the TV. Really good tire and it would be nice if big M would make tires for a TT.

Have fun and thanks to all for your thoughts.

[Wayne&Sam]

Originally Posted by 2001excella

Michelin said that they would "NOT recommend any of their tires for use on a travel trailer."

Hmmm. Jackson Center is selling 16" wheels mounted with Michelins. At least they were in August.

[2airishuman]

comparing inflation pressure/ride qualities WITHIN one tire brand/model...

is easier than trying to compare various tire designs for pressure/softness...

that is NOT straight forward, intuitive or obvious.
________

IF one of your primary concerns (stated earlier) is having road hazard/warranty coverage for the trailer tires...

buy from a vendor that will PROVIDE road hazard coverage.

gy, maxxis, carlisle, greenball ST tires all come with a manufacturers/defects warranty.

some vendors do and will provide road hazard/replacement coverage that goes beyond the basics...

see post #111 below and follow da'links...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...tml#post842186

cheers
2air'

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by Wayne&Sam

Hmmm. Jackson Center is selling 16" wheels mounted with Michelins. At least they were in August.

they also sell a/s branded cigarette lighters...

cheers
2air'

[Bluto]

I too was thinking the same as most of you about switching to the M brand in a 16 inch but,,,I tend to think a lot with my wallet, and it says that I could purchase the GYM 15 twice as often as the 16 inch in a Michelin brand.
So instead of replacing my GYM's with a higher priced tire and wheel now, I could stay with the less expensive trailer tire and have new tires twice as often.
That seems to take the safety issue of old tires as I'll be rolling on new ones more often and replacing a lot soon than using the expensive tires and not have the out of pocket expense of new wheels, etc.
Yes, I use a tire pressure monitor on all my tires. I'd do that no matter what tire I had on the trailer and TV.

[Zigidachs]

Not long ago I tossed into the discussion the possibility of GY 614's for an AS and there were no responses. These tires are rated as "G" and would provide a much greater safety margin than an "E" tire and of course, the "D" tire provided by the manufacturer. What follows is an article about tire failures and certainly brings into question the "real" safety of a ST tire tire vs a LT tire.

RV tire survey stirs failure cause questions

The two weakest points in a towable are the tires and the hitch. I have seen at least five severe roadside accidents in the last year and am very frightened by the statistical probability of an accident of those proportions, thus my obsession with tire safety. The question is whether or not they will fit on the AS.

Comments????

[2airishuman]

the g614 is wider, taLLer and it's a 16.

it is significantly heavier than gyms.

on top of all of that it is rated to 110 psi.

running a 235/85-16 series tire at 50-60 psi would be wildly sloppy.

running it a higher inflations (given it's size and weight)

might not be rivet friendly.

while it is a trailer tire, it's fer a whole nuther size and breed of trailer.

the logic that it would provide a greater 'safety margin' is seriously flawed.

cheers
2air'

[Andrew T]

Over the years I have picked up a lot of Airstreams and other trailers that had been sitting for a long time and tried to nurse them home. I have blown a lot of tires on both tandem and single axle units and have never felt the least bit of a control issue. On a tandem it is nearly impossible to tell you have blown a tire, on a single there is just a slight tug.

I would say that hitch set up was likely the issue on most of the accidents you have seen, maybe 5% of the trailers on the road are really connected properly.

The G tire is used on the 14,000 lb. fifth wheels that we sell so I am very experienced with it. They are a very harsh riding tire, they would be abusive to an Airstream.

Andrew T