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Old 11-05-2010, 11:24 AM   #15
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comparing inflation pressure/ride qualities WITHIN one tire brand/model...

is easier than trying to compare various tire designs for pressure/softness...

that is NOT straight forward, intuitive or obvious.
________

IF one of your primary concerns (stated earlier) is having road hazard/warranty coverage for the trailer tires...

buy from a vendor that will PROVIDE road hazard coverage.

gy, maxxis, carlisle, greenball ST tires all come with a manufacturers/defects warranty.

some vendors do and will provide road hazard/replacement coverage that goes beyond the basics...

see post #111 below and follow da'links...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...tml#post842186

cheers
2air'
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Old 11-05-2010, 11:29 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne&Sam View Post
Hmmm. Jackson Center is selling 16" wheels mounted with Michelins. At least they were in August.
they also sell a/s branded cigarette lighters...

cheers
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Old 11-05-2010, 12:03 PM   #17
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I too was thinking the same as most of you about switching to the M brand in a 16 inch but,,,I tend to think a lot with my wallet, and it says that I could purchase the GYM 15 twice as often as the 16 inch in a Michelin brand.
So instead of replacing my GYM's with a higher priced tire and wheel now, I could stay with the less expensive trailer tire and have new tires twice as often.
That seems to take the safety issue of old tires as I'll be rolling on new ones more often and replacing a lot soon than using the expensive tires and not have the out of pocket expense of new wheels, etc.
Yes, I use a tire pressure monitor on all my tires. I'd do that no matter what tire I had on the trailer and TV.
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Old 11-05-2010, 12:35 PM   #18
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Not long ago I tossed into the discussion the possibility of GY 614's for an AS and there were no responses. These tires are rated as "G" and would provide a much greater safety margin than an "E" tire and of course, the "D" tire provided by the manufacturer. What follows is an article about tire failures and certainly brings into question the "real" safety of a ST tire tire vs a LT tire.

RV tire survey stirs failure cause questions

The two weakest points in a towable are the tires and the hitch. I have seen at least five severe roadside accidents in the last year and am very frightened by the statistical probability of an accident of those proportions, thus my obsession with tire safety. The question is whether or not they will fit on the AS.

Comments????
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Old 11-05-2010, 12:53 PM   #19
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the g614 is wider, taLLer and it's a 16.

it is significantly heavier than gyms.

on top of all of that it is rated to 110 psi.

running a 235/85-16 series tire at 50-60 psi would be wildly sloppy.

running it a higher inflations (given it's size and weight)

might not be rivet friendly.

while it is a trailer tire, it's fer a whole nuther size and breed of trailer.

the logic that it would provide a greater 'safety margin' is seriously flawed.

cheers
2air'
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Old 11-06-2010, 02:10 PM   #20
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Over the years I have picked up a lot of Airstreams and other trailers that had been sitting for a long time and tried to nurse them home. I have blown a lot of tires on both tandem and single axle units and have never felt the least bit of a control issue. On a tandem it is nearly impossible to tell you have blown a tire, on a single there is just a slight tug.

I would say that hitch set up was likely the issue on most of the accidents you have seen, maybe 5% of the trailers on the road are really connected properly.

The G tire is used on the 14,000 lb. fifth wheels that we sell so I am very experienced with it. They are a very harsh riding tire, they would be abusive to an Airstream.

Andrew T
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:51 PM   #21
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Another Blown GYM Incident

All,

We have a 2008 25' Classic, GYM dated 3506, estimate 15K total miles before incident. Traveling at 65mph, pressure checked before departure (always, set to 65psi), about 1.5 hours into trip, passenger-side front tire blew. Trailer unloaded. Other car drivers flagged me of problem, I did not notice any handling issues (...using Hensley hitch?).

I have previously gone 70MPH on the GYM for 1-1.5 hours, during last thousand miles on them. Not sure if contributing factor.

I have read all the various "Tire" threads/strings on the Forum.

I have NOT read in any of the forum threads noting concern on ST tires rated for max of 65 MPH. Statistically, statistically, it appears to be extremely short-sighted that we would drive ST tires at or close to there MAXIMUM limits.

The PROBLEM is we are not leaving ourselves any "margin of safety". Due to excess speed, loading, temperature or manufacturing production tolerances. etc;

My CONCLUSIONS.
1. I will not any buy ST rated tires, due to tire speed rating.
2. I will use either LT or commercial truck tire options.
3. I will research the new AS OEM 16' wheels and tire combo.
4. I will research Alum wheel options for 16" alternatives
5. I will consider smaller than 225/75 size LT tires with LR "D" if necessary to stay with 15' OEM wheels.
6. New tires must have higher speed rating.

Any thoughts or remarks on my conclusions welcome.

Thanks in Advance. Ted
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Old 12-01-2010, 11:17 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moymew View Post
...I have read all the various "Tire" threads/strings on the Forum.

I have NOT read in any of the forum threads noting concern on ST tires rated for max of 65 MPH...
actually there are 100s maybe 1000s of posts here on the speed related issues as applied to ST tires.

and the misunderstanding about the 65 mph metric.

ST tires do not have a speed rating.

they are load rated at 65 mph.

that's very different than the traditional 'speed rating' applied to p metric or LT tires.

ST tires do not use the UTQG or speed rating as applied to P metric and some LT tires.

IF in fact the st tire had a 65 mph rating, they would ALL come apart after driving at 65 mph for 10 minutes or so.

search a bit about exactly what a speed rating means and how they are tested/applied to passenger car tires.

Tire Tech Information - How to Read Speed Rating, Load Index & Service Descriptions

CURB side tires often pick up nails or other crap from the shoulder and develop slow leaks or go flat.

driving 70 mph for 1-2 hours is a NON issue,

i've driven 1000s upon 1000s of miles at something over 65mph on ST tires, without issues.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...ons-27999.html

1000s of trailer tow'rs do so without tire failures.

as a matter of fact gy provides inflation/load guides for folks who PLAN to drive 65-75 mph.

again, if in fact ST tires had a traditional speed rating they would ALL dis-truct at 70 mph after 10 minutes or so.

driving faster than 65 MIGHT shorten the tire life, especially if LOADED at or near their rating (c or d or e)
_________

clearly there are alternatives to ST tires and alternative sizing.
_________

in your example a TPMS might have detected the pressure drop and provided a warning to you.

purchasing a TPMS should be high on the list and precede alternative sizing or tire model selections.

cheers
2air'
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Old 12-02-2010, 05:40 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moymew View Post
All,


The PROBLEM is we are not leaving ourselves any "margin of safety". Due to excess speed, loading, temperature or manufacturing production tolerances. etc;

My CONCLUSIONS.
1. I will not any buy ST rated tires, due to tire speed rating.
2. I will use either LT or commercial truck tire options.
3. I will research the new AS OEM 16' wheels and tire combo.
4. I will research Alum wheel options for 16" alternatives
5. I will consider smaller than 225/75 size LT tires with LR "D" if necessary to stay with 15' OEM wheels.
6. New tires must have higher speed rating.

Any thoughts or remarks on my conclusions welcome.

Thanks in Advance. Ted
Ok, long story short, in your case, going to a ST225/75/15 LRE tire is as good as it's going to get. If thats not good enuff buy 16" wheels and you will have a better world of options.
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Old 12-04-2010, 08:06 PM   #24
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I my search parameters should have been broader....

Thanks...
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Old 12-05-2010, 08:41 AM   #25
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"Buffer" Capacity of Tires

The thread on which I would have posted these comments is now closed, so I'll post my musing here. We traded our 15K fiver for a Classic, 30' ,so having towed a unit as heavy as the fiver, tires become a huge concern.

With the GYM's; D rated; 2540# @ 65psi x4=10,160#-10,000 GVWR for the AS=buffer of 1.6%

2Air had GYM's on his 34' Classic: 2540#x6=15,240#-GVWR of 11,500=3740 or a buffer of 32.5%

2Air now has Maxis ( E rated to 2830@80PSI), but carries them at 70 psi. At 70psi: rating is 2620x6=15,720# (-GVWR of 11,500) = 36.7% buffer

Because of all the "variables": weight, tire temps, pavement temps, travel speed,inflation, age of tire, ambient air temps, etc, would not a "buffer" be more desirable than having the tire rating "spot on" for the GVWR of the AS?
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Old 12-05-2010, 09:09 AM   #26
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the thread i'm guessing u reference is temporarily closed, to avoid hijackin' and content drift at the tail end.

i agree a buffer in capacity is useful.

my understanding is that a/s (and maybe others) looks at the gwr/tire capacity relationship this way....

(using this approach may be a poor choice, and it's not my approach)

-take a mythical 10,000 gvwr trailer with 2 axles...

-approximately 1,000-1,500 lbs of that gvwr will be ON the tongue.

-so the axles/tires are supporting 8,500-9,000 assuming proper loading.

-now the 4 x d rated ST tires still provide 10,160 of load bearing,

-but the 'reserve' capacity will be 10-15 % or more, just by ignoring tongue weight.

using w/d gear some of that tongue load is REapplied to the axles but the reserve will still be 10%.

on the 30s with a slide this goes down and seldom are tires loaded equally as the basic equation implies.
__________

i suspect this marginal load reserve is 1 of the main reasons so many folks report MULTIPLE tire failures...

for example,

-one tire is under inflated, leaking or goes flat...

-the driver continues on but with the 'good tire' now supporting much greater loads,

-and eventually (or shortly after fixing the 1st tire) the 2nd tire fails.

in fact gy advised replacing the 2nd tire IF used in excess of rating for as little as 50 miles.

almost no one does that (replaces an apparently good tire after short term over loading)
_________

the case has been made for using E rated tires on the heavy double axle units (in several threads) and it makes good sense.

additionally there is the notion of REDUCING effective capacity of the tire by 10-20% if towing at speeds over 65...

while there is more cost and maintenance associated with 3 axles, there are real benefits too

like more braking power, more load carrying, more support with a flat and improved tracking, plus it looks cool...

now back 2 your final thought/question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zigidachs View Post
... would not a "buffer" be more desirable than having the tire rating "spot on" for the GVWR of the AS?
absolutely.

the issues are how to arrive at a useful buffer in capacity without creating other problems (handling, heat, excessive vibration) ...

for example UNDER inflation is the bane of most hiway rated tires, so using an 80 psi tire at 40 psi may not be wise.

there are several good threads that explore the c vs d vs e selection process for a variety of trailer weights/configurations...

we have no shortage of tire threads here...

cheers
2air'
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Old 12-05-2010, 09:25 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post
i agree a buffer in capacity is useful.


the case has been made for using E rated tires on the heavy double axle units (in several threads) and it makes good sense.

additionally there is the notion of REDUCING effective capacity of the tire by 10-20% if towing at speeds over 65...

while there is more cost and maintenance associated with 3 axles, there are real benefits too

like more braking power, more load carrying, more support with a flat and improved tracking, plus it looks cool...

cheers
2air'
2air,

I can't disagree, but the major problem that I see with the "E" rated tire theory is, many of these folks get the "E" rated tires, and then run them at 65 lbs pressure because they don't want a harsher ride. My feeling is, and I think it is supported by the tire manufacturers is if you run a "E" tire at "D" max pressure, it will only carry what the "D" tire will carry, so you have gained nothing in "reserve". Simply stated, the "E" tire is only stronger than a "D" tire when run at the higher pressures it is rated for.

And about the three axle trailers, what you say is true, but more drag is involved in towing these trailers over a two axle trailer....facts remain, you cannot get something for nothing.
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Old 12-05-2010, 09:29 AM   #28
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we agree steve.

it's the AIR that supports the load, not the rubber.

extra capacity only happens with higher inflation.

having just replaced 36 lug nuts,

i also agree about about the extra drag from a triple axle.

cheers
2air'
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