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Old 08-04-2010, 09:19 PM   #29
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We started experimenting with 235/75R x 15" Michelin LTX Load Range C tires on tandem axle airstreams 10 years ago.

We simply never have trouble with them, I cannot think of anyone that has had a flat tire
Sounds good to me. We are due to replace our P/XL trailer tires. These Michelins sound like the way to go.
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Old 08-04-2010, 09:40 PM   #30
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Actually there are better size options for your 23'. Call me before you change them.

Andrew T
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Old 08-04-2010, 09:42 PM   #31
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Will do....thnxs Andy.
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Old 08-04-2010, 09:48 PM   #32
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yeah no flat tires is impressive.

do they have some built in avoidance system for nails, screws and road debris?

there are at least 3 ways to process that info...

1. blindly accept it
2. blindly reject it
3. ask questions about it (not the same as questioning it) before moving to #1 or #2...

so here are a few of the relevant questions...

--100+ units...thats < than ONE per month over ten years...

? and what % of the 10s of millions are rvs in north america ?

? or what % of the 100s of millions of TIRES in use on towables ?

--10 years, so MANY of those should be on their 2nd or even 3rd set...

? or do these tires DEFY longevity issues too ?

--so some have been to alaska and mexico...

? how many 1-2 ? or all of them and again without ANY flat tires ?

--the gym ST tires on my unit (14 total tires) never had 'balance issues' in 100 of thousands of miles...

? UNeven wear is CAUSED by im-balance, alignment issues during use, so which came first ?

--make the airstream last longer...

? if this tire improves LONGEVITY on new trailers, why doesn't a/s use them ?

--while i would agree P metric and LT tires are more rigorously tested...

? where is the EVIDENCE that st tire testing for LOAD is based on LESSER standards ?

again...

? why doesn't A/S use them and where is the official ENDORSEMENT from mich' for this application ?

--the claim is made that these ~C rated passenger tires hold up BETTER under load than ST tires...

?? where is the proof, testing or basic tire industry EVIDENCE to support that claim ??

? where is even ONE bit of proof outside the 'user/vendor report' ?

--if these ~C rated tires are so great with loads OVER their ratings...

? why aren't they in use (by ANY COMPANY) on mid size SUVs or TRUCKS with axle/tire loads of 2000-2500 lbs PER TIRE ??
__________

other than sharing the background i see no evidence for any of the claims...

and "we started experimenting..." is the key concept in this entire issue...

experimenting on a PERSONAL trailer is fine, but on customers trailers...

that's just ONE more thing folks need to THINK ABOUT...before drinking the koolaid

cheers
2air'
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Old 08-04-2010, 10:00 PM   #33
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Yer sounding like a #2 guy there, 2air...

Were you a-waitin' fur an expensive study team made uP of perfessers, mary-Anne, and Gilligan, with zillions of milez o' Dock-U-mounted research paid four by some YOU-knee-varsity to publish a paper on it in Lancet er sumpin?

I'm gettin em becuz they NEBBER ware oot! (not! where did he say Dat?)

Don't hold yer breth on dat, but DUE have a drank!
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Old 08-04-2010, 11:19 PM   #34
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Hi 2 Air

I am just trying to be helpful here. But let me try and explain it better.

Out of 100 trailers with Travel Trailer tires we would see substantial numbers of units with shifted belts, out of balance condtions and a lot of flat tires. Lock the brakes up one time on ST tires and you can wear the tread off right to the cords. If you are working in a shop seeing hundreds of units the difference in reliablity is so obvious you cannot miss it. Most other shops won't see this because I doubt 1% of the RV stores have tire balance equipment. As well Airstream is the only RV that I know of that comes with balanced tires. Most other rv's see a fraction of the miles that Airstreams do so any tire will do.

I would ask how do you know you did not have any balance issues in your 14 tires? Did you actually check the balance on them every year or 2?

Airstream installed 7.00 x 15" Michelin LT tires as an option from 1971 to 1984. Today if they use a tire outside the industries minimal standard they have to redo all the brake certifications which would be far to expensive to do.

I have a copy of the standards for tire testing in print in a file cabinate somewhere but I cannot lay my hands on it right now but the difference is striking. One thing I do remember is trailer tires are tested to 65 MPH and a LT tire is tested to 75 MPH but I have been told Michelin and several other companies test theirs to 90 MPH.

I have a lot of customers that I know well who enjoy trying new things that are well thought out. I always explain the risks and rewards. The fact that we are the only dealer that mentions it is likely because we are the only ones that try these. There is no industry funding or initiative to try and find better tires. In fact in the cheaper trailers the biggest tire innovation in the last 10 years was that they could get $20.00 bias ply tires from China.

Now about loading, the heaviest 30 or 31' classic that I have weighed had 7620 lbs. on the axles. The 4 Michelins are rated for 7940 lbs. so they are close to their limit but not overloaded. Yes changing to 16" rims with 225 /75R x 16" tires does give more leeway, they look good as well and they have a slight edge in handling. On the other hand you are talking about a significant difference in cost and a harsher ride in the trailer.

Andrew T
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Old 08-05-2010, 12:31 AM   #35
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Mr. 2air... An informed decision is a priority here when it comes to tires. Although it may appear I made an on the spot decision your eyes have deceived you.
I doubt you ever worked for a major tire company. I spent a few years working for one and picked up a crap load of valuable info.
My last choice for a tire on my Stream would be an ST tire.
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Old 08-05-2010, 12:35 AM   #36
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yep, gyms were rotated regularly and balanced as needed...

the balance change VERY little and wear was adequate so i've stopped checking now.

with disc brakes and centramatics REbalancing now is just not an issue.

but i'd never suggest anyone else take that path.

i doubt MOST trailer tires are handled in 'rv shops'

mine for example were only taken to goodyear shops where balancing gear IS available.

it's nice to think the 'difference' is equipment or skill or experience or willingness to try creative options.

but the primary difference is LIABILITY, shops in the u.s. don't "experiment" with good reason.

they'd have an impossible task justifying "experimenting" and would have little or no support from the industry if/WHEN trouble happens...

again, has mich' supported this application?

it's bad advice to suggest folks NOT living in canada tow with UNDERrated tires or vehicles...

that's really the issue and while it takes a LOT of effort for someone from texas or cali

to visit your place and get welded/lowered/shortened and so on...

tires can be purchased ON LINE by anyone.

a GOOD tire shop here would NOT mount an underrated tire IF they knew the application...

just like they wouldn't mount 285 width tires on 7 inch wide rims...

the china reference is misplaced, especially since the majority of gym ST failing tires were manufactured in canada.
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aage, u crack me up!

and lancet (or the bmj) have done studies on single malts, cuban cigars and pasties so a TIRE study isn't too outta line...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road Ruler View Post
...I doubt...
there is nothing in my post based on your note.

cheers
2air'
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Old 08-05-2010, 01:23 AM   #37
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I found this on a tire website knowledge data base about tires for a trailer...it says not to use LT tires on a trailer...

Trailer Tires

Trailer tires are built to carry heavier loads than automobile tires, but they are specifically built for trailers. Don"t mount them on your car!
Trailers are more susceptible to sway, so they tend to swerve and destabilize while on the road. In large part, this is because of the less sophisticated suspension systems designed for trailers, but it also has to do with the heavier weight that trailer tires endure. Trailer tires must be built especially strong to manage much heavier loads than typical passenger or light truck tires. The requirements for trailer tires are unique, and their bias ply construction is specifically designed for strength.
Your car uses radial tires, which are built to hold steady traction in all sorts of driving and weather conditions. For cars, the sidewalls must be very flexible so your tires can maintain a good grip on the road. Automotive radial tires are great for your car, but because the sidewalls aren"t stiff, they can"t carry really heavy loads.
Trailers on the other hand, do not have any driving torque applied to their axles. They don"t careen around turns or weave in and out of traffic. Trailer tires only need to maintain traction when the driver brakes to stop or slow down.
In this case a stronger, bias ply tire is more necessary than a flexible, radial tire. Flexible sidewalls would create even more trailer sway and instability. Bias ply tires are constructed with cords woven across the tire from bead to bead. They also have consistent ply at the tread and sidewalls. This construction technique creates stiffer and stronger sidewalls, giving trailers the robust support needed to keep from swaying and destabilizing on the road.
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Old 08-05-2010, 01:31 AM   #38
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SOME of that quote is sensible but some of it is also very dated and a bit misleading.

modern radials can and do carry as much or more than bias ply tires...

the materials and designs are simply better and stronger while being lighter and more durable.

the misleading part is that the weight isn't carried by the sidewalls (unless it's an airLESS or runFLAT tire)

the load is carried and the resistance to sway are BOTH based on air pressure.

higher pressures or the CAPACITY for higher pressures carry the load...

the materials and design of the tire need to be UP TO the task of the higher pressures,

just as the valve stem and RIM must be up to the task...

they are called PNEUMATIC tires for a reason, the LOAD is riding on air...

the part about trailer loads vs auto load is true,

and another significant issue is "sustained loading" as seen on trailers...

vs "intermittent loading" seen when cornering, turning or braking in a car/truck.

that's just another reason why one cannot directly compare st load ratings to p/LT load indexes...

cheers
2air'
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Old 08-05-2010, 01:33 AM   #39
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With Load Range C Michelin LTX's, my primary concern is sway. Those who are running 235/75-15 LTX's, have you noticed more sway than with the previous tires?
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Old 08-05-2010, 01:42 AM   #40
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the folks REPORTING so far are BOTH using hitches designed to ELIMINATE sway ...

there is NO sway with either of those hitches (pp or haha)

in fact this specific approach to hitching can HIDE poor setup issues that would be OBVIOUS with lesser hitches...

(and i'm NOT suggesting either of their rigs are set up poorly)

cheers
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Old 08-05-2010, 09:03 AM   #41
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Note that the Airstream supplement manual on tires states that the LT tires can be used for trailers.
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Old 08-05-2010, 11:07 AM   #42
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Capt', where did that quote come from? It seems to be very out of date. The ST tires that came on our trailer were radials, not bias ply. So far as I know, all or most ST tires are radials.

2air, not all reporting are using Hensley or PP hitches, but just about everyone ("most people") seem to using WD/anti-sway hitches. Minor point since the end result is pretty much the same. With these hitches, a lot of the sway problem is eliminated. It then seems ST tires are designed for a problem that may have once been a lot more serious, but has been mostly resolved. With a lot of history with RV's, do you know if effective anti-sway hitches were not in common use when the ST tires were first designed?

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