Michelin LTX 235/75R15 XL Upgrade?

[nickmeloy]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

Don't knkow about the lawyers but as a tire engineer I can tell you there is sound scientific evidence and a reason for all owners tandem axle trailers to run whatever tires they have at the pressure on the tire that is associated with the max load capacity.
...

Does this mean that someone that substitutes a Load Range (LR) E tire for the same size LR D tire, but runs the LR E tire at less than the max. rated pressure to get a softer ride is potentially causing a failure problem on the LR E tire?

[SteveSueMac]

FYI - am scheduled to have the 15s installed on my trailer Sat morning. Talked with the tire shop (Town Fair Tire in W. Springfield, MA) and explained why these and not STs. Used all the DOT info and they're good to go. Also confirmed with Airstream that doing so won't violate my warranty. If it would have, I would have waited until after the warranty period.

I did ask the guy (Mike) if he was familiar with this forum. He is. He did say that sometimes, some things get blown a bit out of proportion here :-) but we talked about the tires and my clearance light issue and while the Classic castings are on bak order, he started the process to get everything to my dealer to replace all the castings and however many lights are leaking.

Good day all the way around!!

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by nickmeloy

Does this mean that someone that substitutes a Load Range (LR) E tire for the same size LR D tire, but runs the LR E tire at less than the max. rated pressure to get a softer ride is potentially causing a failure problem on the LR E tire?

Running a LR-D and LR-E at the same pressure will yield the same ride in controlled Apples-Apples evaluations. Running them both at LR-D pressure will also probably result in the same tire life.

My recommendation to run the highest pressure based on tire and wheel rating on multi axle trailers is based on the science of reducing "inter-ply shear", which is the force trying to tear the tread & belts off the carcass.

So if the wheel can handle it, running the LR-E pressure will probably result in better life than running the LR-D pressure when the tire load is the same.

[SteveSueMac]

This may be TOO geeky, but the DOT standard that's been referenced here: http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...px?reg=571.110 also suggests placards need to be created when vehicles are altered.

Since in my case, the 10% derated 15s will exceed the stated 7600# GVWR so no change needed there (GVWR remains 7600 due to the axles) but each tire will now be different and require a different PSI (50, not 65). Has anyone updated their placard and if so, how are you doing that in a weatherproof format?
Thanks!

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

This may be TOO geeky, but the DOT standard that's been referenced here: Tire selection and rims and motor home/recreation vehicle trailer load carrying capacity information for motor vehicles with a GVWR of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) or less - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration also suggests placards need to be created when vehicles are altered.

Since in my case, the 10% derated 15s will exceed the stated 7600# GVWR so no change needed there (GVWR remains 7600 due to the axles) but each tire will now be different and require a different PSI (50, not 65). Has anyone updated their placard and if so, how are you doing that in a weatherproof format?
Thanks!

2 thoughts:

First, the regulation cited is for new vehicle manufacturers and applicable components. It doesn't apply to individual owners.

Second, is that there are a number of ways to deal with the placard. I've seen stick-on labels like shipping labels, where the label is sealed inside a plastic cover.

I've also seen 3X5 cards printed up, laminated, then applied with clear tape or with self laminating plastic. Basically, all you need can be obtained from the local office supply.

[BlackAces]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

This may be TOO geeky, but the DOT standard that's been referenced here: Tire selection and rims and motor home/recreation vehicle trailer load carrying capacity information for motor vehicles with a GVWR of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) or less - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration also suggests placards need to be created when vehicles are altered.

Since in my case, the 10% derated 15s will exceed the stated 7600# GVWR so no change needed there (GVWR remains 7600 due to the axles) but each tire will now be different and require a different PSI (50, not 65). Has anyone updated their placard and if so, how are you doing that in a weatherproof format?
Thanks!

Lots of useful information about replacement tires, including plus sizing, in the manual referenced below. On subject you will find an example of an Auxiliary tire information label in appendix A - page A4.

http://www.tiresafety.com/images/Tir...t%20Manual.pdf

BA

[lylesgl]

Originally Posted by Krazyjohnny

SteveSueMAc,

I think our trailers are very similar so we should both have similar results. I was just quoted $704 out the door from my local Discount Tire store. It is only $100 different than the Goodyear Marathons. I think that is a very small price to pay for the peace of mind. Besides 16" Load range E tires are rated at 3K lbs each. That is a very rigid sidewall and I have had issues with my exterior skin cracking around the front storage compartment supposedly due to harsh towing conditions.

Johnny,
I had that same problem with the exterior skin cracking around the front storage locker when towing with my F-350. I purchased an AirSafe hitch and have experienced no more probs.

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by BlackAces

Lots of useful information about replacement tires, including plus sizing, in the manual referenced below. On subject you will find an example of an Auxiliary tire information label in appendix A - page A4.

http://www.tiresafety.com/images/Tir...t%20Manual.pdf

BA

Thanks BA! I'll set something like that up...good idea!


Ok - so - got the new sneakers today. I had made an adjustment to my hitch (ref. unofficial pp users guide thread) which made a HUGE difference in the towing experience. The porpoising that's been plaguing me since day 1 was nearly invisible - so for starters that was a good morning.

About 100' too late I realized I missed the entrance to Town Fair Tire and had to drive another 6 miles to get back there ...rrrrrr

Got there with my pre-coded internal TPMS sensors and they had my set of tires ready for me. Made in Feb-Mar this year in Canada.

They had me out in the parking lot to swap the tires which they did one at a time. The first one they used a jack on the spot underneath marked for that purpose. I didn't like how that was pushing the hitch forward on the rear axle of my truck and ended up making a ramp out of mutli-tiered "Legos" and that's how we did the remaining 7 tires.

Yes...7. Unfortunately, the red o-ring for the TPMS sensors wasn't adequate to prevent leaking which he didn't find out until tire #3. To the manager's credit, he talked with TST (the manufacturer) and used another gasket set he had on hand from another internal TPMS kit to make the seal and those worked perfectly. And yes, he had to redo those 3 tires - no extra charge (I tipped him nicely...).

Got on the road - I was afraid to drive with them for some reason. I had visions of going around a corner an having them blow off due to force meant for STs (you guys are all dancing around in my head!! :-) ). Well I got over that soon enough and took a 10 mile drive to the nearest CAT scales to double check the weight and grab lunch. Noticeably smoother ride and in conjunction with the corrected hitch position, I barely felt any porpoising even on that section I've crossed a dozen times that's like a washboard and gave me fits in the past.

So I'm feeling very good about the purchase so far. The tread looks (to my untrained eye) more substantial than that of the GYMs though I honestly don't know what I'm talking about. They are slightly wider than the GYMs and run at 50 psi max so I think that extra 15 lbs and thinner contact point is somewhat noticeable (though again, I could be psyching myself in to something that has no good reasoning behind it :-) ).

Got a LONG trip coming up and will keep you all posted.

[Ridgerunner3]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

Thanks BA! I'll set something like that up...good idea!


Ok - so - got the new sneakers today. I had made an adjustment to my hitch (ref. unofficial pp users guide thread) which made a HUGE difference in the towing experience. The porpoising that's been plaguing me since day 1 was nearly invisible - so for starters that was a good morning.

About 100' too late I realized I missed the entrance to Town Fair Tire and had to drive another 6 miles to get back there ...rrrrrr

Got there with my pre-coded internal TPMS sensors and they had my set of tires ready for me. Made in Feb-Mar this year in Canada.

They had me out in the parking lot to swap the tires which they did one at a time. The first one they used a jack on the spot underneath marked for that purpose. I didn't like how that was pushing the hitch forward on the rear axle of my truck and ended up making a ramp out of mutli-tiered "Legos" and that's how we did the remaining 7 tires.

Yes...7. Unfortunately, the red o-ring for the TPMS sensors wasn't adequate to prevent leaking which he didn't find out until tire #3. To the manager's credit, he talked with TST (the manufacturer) and used another gasket set he had on hand from another internal TPMS kit to make the seal and those worked perfectly. And yes, he had to redo those 3 tires - no extra charge (I tipped him nicely...).

Got on the road - I was afraid to drive with them for some reason. I had visions of going around a corner an having them blow off due to force meant for STs (you guys are all dancing around in my head!! :-) ). Well I got over that soon enough and took a 10 mile drive to the nearest CAT scales to double check the weight and grab lunch. Noticeably smoother ride and in conjunction with the corrected hitch position, I barely felt any porpoising even on that section I've crossed a dozen times that's like a washboard and gave me fits in the past.

So I'm feeling very good about the purchase so far. The tread looks (to my untrained eye) more substantial than that of the GYMs though I honestly don't know what I'm talking about. They are slightly wider than the GYMs and run at 50 psi max so I think that extra 15 lbs and thinner contact point is somewhat noticeable (though again, I could be psyching myself in to something that has no good reasoning behind it :-) ).

Got a LONG trip coming up and will keep you all posted.

I have been extremely happy with my Michelin 15" XL's. I have the Dill brand TPMS.

[SteveSueMac]

I should mention it was $719 all in (balancing and TPMS installation) before $70 rebate (so $650).

And it was done by some great guys at Town Fair Tire in West Springfield, MA who really treated me right. Had they not soaped those valve stems after installing them, I'd never have known until they ran flat on the road!! I apologized profusely and they assured me it was no problem an they were glad to do it right and not send me out of there in bad condition. Glad they were that conscientious! Plus they all thought the trailer was wicked cool! That didn't hurt. :-)

As to the ST/LTX controversy, I explained to them earlier in the week that I had talked directly with Airstream about this and they said this would not void my warranty. At that point, Town Fair had no problem installing these on my trailer.

[SteveSueMac]

That's great ridgerunner. How many miles so far?

[Ridgerunner3]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

That's great ridgerunner. How many miles so far?

Right at 2000 peaceful miles. The peace of mind while towing our Airstream with Michelin tires, a Propride hitch and a TPMS system is worth every penny I spent. I would do it all again in a heart beat.

[SteveSueMac]

So I've been enjoying the Michelins very much. We've taken some long trips in them - from CT to TN - from CT to the Mothership, etc. on the way to a rally in Maine this weekend, we were in a construction zone and the slow lane had been dug down a few inches leaving a sharp edge on the shoulder raised up about 2". Unfortunately, I had to squeeze right a bit with the traffic and I scuffed up the curb side tires pretty badly.

We made it home to CT just fine - I kept my eyes on the TPMS all the way home and all 4 tires performed as they have since being installed - the pressure rises about 10% and the temp rises about 30 degrees above ambient. Nothing inconsistent on the way home, but I'm definitely going to replace them.

The TFT shop where I had them installed is set for a Saturday morning appt.

While I'm happy with them and planning on just replacing the 2 on the curbside - I do have to say that I'm open to suggestions if there's something I'm missing. The math all works out - at 1984/tire (derated from 2183 as they're P rated on a trailer) by 4 tires - I've got over 7900# capacity - for 5880# on the axles per the CAT scales.

If there were an ST tire (radial or bias ply) that was not made in China, I'd be open to alternatives to swap out the entire set. Or a true LT 15" tire...but searches have been fruitless so far!

So bummed I "scraped my sneakers" :-/

[Lance M]

Steve,
GoodYear G26 cargo
GoodYear Wrangler HT LT 215/75/15 LRD
Yokohama RY 215
Take your pick from these-
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSe...75&diameter=15
Sorry to hear about you scuffing your shoes

[Tireman9]

Continental has some "commercial" tires Vanco-2
Continental USA Car / Light Truck / SUV -Vancoâ„¢2

I would consider Continental one of the "major" tire companies unlike many of the no-name imports.

[RLS]

I've been using the Vanco2 tires for the past 4-5 yrs. with no problems, just have not been able to get it out much. Have about 20,000 miles on them and they still look new. I tried posting about this tire :
Nokian Rotiiva AT 235/75R15 116/113S

It is an LT 15" tire, E rated!!

[Lance M]

The Vanco2 commercial tires are great tires. I have installed a few sets on customer's trailers. They are getting harder and harder to find. I think the Vanco2 Four Season tire may be taking its place.
The Nokian tire would be a great solution for the the heavier classics. I have had a few sets of Nokian winter tires in Germany. Very high quality.
Nice find!

[gmw photos]

Originally Posted by Top

The Vanco2 commercial tires are great tires. I have installed a few sets on customer's trailers. They are getting harder and harder to find. I think the Vanco2 Four Season tire may be taking its place.
The Nokian tire would be a great solution for the the heavier classics. I have had a few sets of Nokian winter tires in Germany. Very high quality.
Nice find!

Lance,
I think you are right on the Vanco four season replacing the Vanco 2 in their lineup. From what I have seen looking around, for instance on tire rack they are calling at least the 15" version of the "2" on closeout. I have no idea what all differences are between the "2" and the "four season", but from their marketing blurb, they called the "2" a summer tire, where obviously they are calling the four season a year round tire.

The Nokian sounds interesting. I can't say I've even seen any, but I guess they are made in Finland.

[SteveSueMac]

Thanks. The Continental Vanco 4 season (in 225 70 R15) is an honest to goodness load range D (which is what the original GYMs are) at 65 PSI without a 65mph limit - but are a bear to find. I'm going to keep checking. The 195 70 R15 (also a D range) seems more available, but significantly thinner and shorter than the original GYMs.

I'm not great at math, and conversions but it seems like millimeters converted to inches looks ROUGHLY like this:

ORIGINAL GYMs (225 75)

8 4/5" wide, 6 2/3" aspect height

MICHELINS (235 75)

9 3/4" wide, 7 1/3" aspect
(9/10" wider and 2/3" taller than GYMs)

CONTINENTAL VANCO FOUR SEASON (220 70)

8 2/3" wide, 6" aspect
(1/4" thinner and 1/2" shorter than GYMs)


CONTINENTAL VANCO FOUR SEASON (195 70)

7 1/2" wide, 5 1/4" aspect
(1 1/3" thinner and 1 1/2" shorter than GYMs)

So the Michelins and the Vanco 220s seem "close enough for jazz" to the GYM footprint, but the Vanco 195 just seems too different. Too thin for gripping and MUCH lower (surely requiring hitch adjustment).

Am I seeing that right?

The Vanco 220s at 65PSI LRD are very tempting. I have not yet found where they are manufactured but will check with my tire guys in the morning.

If they can't get them, they have the Michelins and I will just swap out that scuffed pair. I'm bummed to have wrecked them without even a year of use....

[Lance M]

Yep, looks about right.
I typically use the specs from Tire Rack to compare diameter. As you know, if the diameter is a 1" increase, the height of the trailer is raised 1/2" only.

I have often contemplated these Pirelli Scorpionn ATR for the next set of tires. It is a real LT tire that is LRD.
Edit-Also this Firestone that weighs in at 44lbs!

But, you won't be disappointed with more Michelins