Michelin Defender LTX M/S 235/75-15 109T XL

[Jim & Susan]

I'm still trying to figure why all the others on the island didn't simply kill Gilligan, since he screwed up every rescue possibility they ever had.

I'll go crawl back under my rock now and let you get back to your regularly scheduled tire duel.

Jim

[BoldAdventure]

Originally Posted by interstateflyer

Yes......only in Florida though. Need their iPhone app so we can find them anywhere in North America.

If you are in Florida you need to go eat at PDQ and get the Spicy Bufflo Chicken Sandwich. OMG, SO GOOD.

It's the only thing I miss about Florida.

I also miss WAWA

[Lance M]

What is WAWA?

[Ted S.]

Firehouse Subs is up to 900 stores I believe. I always think this is bad when it grows that big. But whatever, its great food, from a great bunch of guys who started it. They steam the meat which makes it melt in your mouth.

Welcome to Firehouse !!!

[Bajaexplorer]

Originally Posted by Ted S.

Firehouse Subs is up to 900 stores I believe. I always think this is bad when it grows that big. But whatever, its great food, from a great bunch of guys who started it. They steam the meat which makes it melt in your mouth.

Welcome to Firehouse !!!

Here in Yuma are super super, the ones with carne asada to die for.
Specially if you get a set of Michelins at the Bg o Tire they give you a coupon for a dozen subs... hey guy's you are soooooo out of topic.......did I mention Michelin tires????

[Rocinante]

In retrospect, it's kind of a relief to see this thread go wildly off topic. There was nothing more to say, but we all kept saying it. At this point, we might as well talk about tacos, BBQ and beer.

Here's our favorite spot, in the middle of nowhere (Junction, TX)
http://www.casarocinante.com/Travel/...as/i-6BGcLNN/A

[Bajaexplorer]

Originally Posted by interstateflyer

The current Michelin sidewall sidewall text reads....LTX M/S2 P235/75 R15 108T XL Extra Load E2....Max Load 2183 at 50 PSI.

The 23D utilizes two 3,000 pound axles. The GVWR is 6,000 pounds. My 23D's CAT scale weight fully load is typically 5250 pounds or 2625 pounds per axle. Using your derated factor of .909 and 85% safety factor, a pair of LTXs are capable of supporting 3373 per axel or 6746 pounds total. That's 1496 more than I would typically need.

I normally air them to 50psi cold at a typical ambient of 60 degrees. I'm not aware of a formula that would accurately determine the least amount of air that I could run and still safely support my load of 1687 pounds per tire on demanding roads.

The new Defender LTX M/S 235/75R15 XL 109T will support 2271 pounds per tire, 88 more than the older M/S 2. That's 68 pounds per tire more when derated and safety margin reduced. That's not a huge improvement. I assume that it would have a minimum inflation for max loading psi that is similar to the M/S2.

I've read that the tread will last 10% longer under harsh conditions and is claimed to be better in snow and ice. That's certainly a positive.
__________________

Question,

Since we need to replace our tires ASAP I have been considering in getting the LTX M/S.......108's but after reading this post, I m more confused than ever. My trailer GVWR is 7600 lbs and these tires support only 6746? Did I m reading something wrong here? Although on the cat scale we are at 6500 ,aren't we missing the boat here or I am so wrong in understanding this post.

Another question for the OP of this thread, did you ever contacted Ohio center about their opinion of these LT tires to be mounted on the Airstreams? Considering that now they are mounting P rated tires on the new big trailers?
What do they have to say? I mention this because there is not a tire shop here that will mount these tires on my trailer because of liabilties issues they say, the thing for us is that were do we stand in case per say of a catastrofic accident in case of a blow up and being at fault for not having the " right class tire? I have raised this question before, Rocinante any thoughts about this matter? It does not make any sense to read on this thread to to take my tires to the shop one or two at the time and tell them that these tires are for my old suburban. Tireman since you are the specialist can we get your opinion on the matter?

[interstateflyer]

Originally Posted by Flyingsilver

Question,

Since we need to replace our tires ASAP I have been considering in getting the LTX M/S.......108's but after reading this post, I m more confused than ever. My trailer GVWR is 7600 lbs and these tires support only 6746? Did I m reading something wrong here? Although on the cat scale we are at 6500 ,aren't we missing the boat here or I am so wrong in understanding this post.

Another question for the OP of this thread, did you ever contacted Ohio center about their opinion of these LT tires to be mounted on the Airstreams? Considering that now they are mounting P rated tires on the new big trailers?
What do they have to say? I mention this because there is not a tire shop here that will mount these tires on my trailer because of liabilties issues they say, the thing for us is that were do we stand in case per say of a catastrofic accident in case of a blow up and being at fault for not having the " right class tire? I have raised this question before, Rocinante any thoughts about this matter? It does not make any sense to read on this thread to to take my tires to the shop one or two at the time and tell them that these tires are for my old suburban. Tireman since you are the specialist can we get your opinion on the matter?

According to Tireman9 we need to derate the tires by .909 for trailer use and take an additional 15% off of the load capacity written on the sidewall to determine the number used to select the tire for your application. If you use those guidelines you'd quite possibly have a problem in your particular case. Remember, don't believe everything that you read on internet forums. Do your own research.

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by interstateflyer

According to Tireman9 we need to derate the tires by .909 for trailer use and take an additional 15% off of the load capacity written on the sidewall to determine the number used to select the tire for your application. If you use those guidelines you'd quite possibly have a problem in your particular case. Remember, don't believe everything that you read on internet forums. Do your own research.

Allow me to second the above procedure - and add one more step: Account for the side to side and front to rear variation, which I have conservatively estimated to be as high as 15%.

[Bill M.]

Flysilver

Check your gross axle weight rating. The 15" LTX, derated 10% to 1983lbs, need to exceed the GAWR for the trailer.

My trailer has a gross weight of 6800 lbs. But the GAWR is 6300 lbs. When hooked up and traveling the load on the axles is 5600 lbs.

It is likely that your GAWR is considerably less than the 7600 gross weight of the trailer.

I have been running the LTX you mentioned for 4 years and it has done a good job.

If you feel you still need the extra load from the ST tires, so be it. But keep in mind that the ST tires are tested and rated by a different test so, to me, the direct comparison of the load rating is suspect.

[Rocinante]

Originally Posted by interstateflyer

According to Tireman9 we need to derate the tires by .909 for trailer use and take an additional 15% off of the load capacity written on the sidewall to determine the number used to select the tire for your application.

Sorry, but as I understand it, this double de-rating idea is complete nonsense driven by a misunderstanding of what's been said.

BTW, if we can't find a tire shop that will mount these tires on the trailer when they become available, we'll probably go a different route. We're not removing wheels and carrying them in one pair ar a time. That's way too much work.

[mojo]

I have found that Discount Tire and Big O Tires will mount LT tires on travel trailers.

[Rocinante]

Thanks, Mojo!

Given the fact free tire opinions many folks fling about the place like its Gospel, I'm not surprised at Flyingsilver's confusion.

No, we have not called the Mothership about these tires. Feel free to do so and post what you learn. It would be interesting.

Unlike many here, we're not pretend lawyers so we won't comment on or contribute to discussions of liability. Any real lawyers who may take offense at this remark should know that any advice they provide here is worth exactly what we paid them for it.

Originally Posted by Flyingsilver

Question,



Since we need to replace our tires ASAP I have been considering in getting the LTX M/S.......108's but after reading this post, I m more confused than ever. My trailer GVWR is 7600 lbs and these tires support only 6746? Did I m reading something wrong here? Although on the cat scale we are at 6500 ,aren't we missing the boat here or I am so wrong in understanding this post.



Another question for the OP of this thread, did you ever contacted Ohio center about their opinion of these LT tires to be mounted on the Airstreams? Considering that now they are mounting P rated tires on the new big trailers?


What do they have to say? I mention this because there is not a tire shop here that will mount these tires on my trailer because of liabilties issues they say, the thing for us is that were do we stand in case per say of a catastrofic accident in case of a blow up and being at fault for not having the " right class tire? I have raised this question before, Rocinante any thoughts about this matter? It does not make any sense to read on this thread to to take my tires to the shop one or two at the time and tell them that these tires are for my old suburban. Tireman since you are the specialist can we get your opinion on the matter?

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by Rocinante

Sorry, but as I understand it, this double de-rating idea is complete nonsense driven by a misunderstanding of what's been said.

BTW, if we can't find a tire shop that will mount these tires on the trailer when they become available, we'll probably go a different route. We're not removing wheels and carrying them in one pair ar a time. That's way too much work.

The derating .909 is industry standard fro application of P type tires on non passenger cars such as stationwagons, SUV, & P/U. Also for trailer application. This just gives a max load capacity for the expected service.

The 15% is what I and others suggest as a reasonable margin to allow for other variables such as cumulative errors in pressure gauge readings, side loading due to side winds, road crown and similar variables. Remember tires are tested on smooth drums with no pot-holes, no camber or toe loading etc. If you believe that you do not need any safety margin that is your decision. All I can do is offer my opinion based on 40 years as a tire design engineer and observations of well over 10,000 tire autopsies.

[Rocinante]

Thanks for the clarification. So the second number, unlike the first, is a safety margin thing vs. a hard/fast requirement. That's cool, makes sense.

It's also super-helpful to go back and read Andrew T.'s post based on his dealership's experience with a large number of trailers on 15" Michelin tires similar to these.

Assuming we can find a tire dealer who will do the deed, we'll go for it when the tires become available. If not, we'll bite the bullet and move up to the 16" wheels/tires and try to find someone who'd like to buy our lovely shiny 15" rims.

[SteveSueMac]

The code Switz and others have quoted includes the 10% derating (for use of P metric tires on a trailer) and an additional 6% margin (load to be no more than 94% the derated load). This is less than our resident tire engineers who suggest 15% on top of the 10%. But if you go by this code (posted below), you get 1863# (1985*.94) per tire (or 7452# capacity for a double axle) for the 15" P-rated Michelin. On the scales fully loaded for camping (including full fresh water and propane) I come in around 6000# which means I'm only using 80% of the doubly de-rated amount of load capacity for these Michelins on my trailer.

I asked Airstream about this before switching them and they said it would not void my warranty. I didn't ask (and don't expect they'd answer) any questions about liability.

I also explained to my local Town Fair Tire what I was doing and they installed them at their shop. I did not get the warranty from Michelin because they were installed on a trailer (though I did get the rebate from Michelin they offered on a set of 4).

Each person should do their own research and be comfortable with their own decision regardless of what they read here (including what I've just written...).

Good luck!
-----------------
S4.2.2.2

When passenger car tires are installed on an MPV, truck, bus, or trailer, each tire's load rating is reduced by dividing it by 1.10 before determining, under S4.2.2.1, the sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle.

S4.2.2.3

(a) For vehicles, except trailers with no designated seating positions, equipped with passenger car tires, the vehicle normal load on the tire shall be no greater than 94 percent of the derated load rating at the vehicle manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressure for that tire.

[Bajaexplorer]

Originally Posted by Rocinante

Thanks for the clarification. So the second number, unlike the first, is a safety margin thing vs. a hard/fast requirement. That's cool, makes sense.

It's also super-helpful to go back and read Andrew T.'s post based on his dealership's experience with a large number of trailers on 15" Michelin tires similar to these.

Assuming we can find a tire dealer who will do the deed, we'll go for it when the tires become available. If not, we'll bite the bullet and move up to the 16" wheels/tires and try to find someone who'd like to buy our lovely shiny 15" rims.

Greetings,

255 posts, for sure we have learned a lot about tires and subs.
My take on this is, now that Airstream is fitting new heavy trailers since 2015 with Michelins LT, LTx's P rated? Tires (non st ).what do the rest of us do trapped with those lousy cheap ST manufactured tires that non tire shop will replace for similar tires of the new AS generation because of liabilities issues? And us discussing about all kind of stuff that really is beyond comprehension? We have to go after 255 posts of sense/ non sense? It is clear that there is a huge disconnect here among thks forum and with Airstream, a tire recall is in due order. And a new tire stikcker on the left front of the trailer with the new manufacturer tires specs. same like in the new trailers. Houston... are you there?

[Rocinante]

There will be no recall. ST tires remain officially sufficient unto the need. If you, like us, decide to switch to something else (e.g. the tires we started this thread about), it's on us to do so. On our own dime.

Actually, the last time I called them, folks at Airstream found this forum's obsession with eliminating ST tires to be puzzling and a bit pointless.

[xrvr]

It is for most AS owners who only tow a few hundred miles a year.

[Dingo Girl]

Page after page of tire speak and I still can't find out why a few years ago on this forum no one ran LT tires.
The hot rubber was the bias ply trailer tire.
What changed? How did LT tires become trailer tires?