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Old 02-13-2016, 10:15 AM   #253
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Michelin Defender LTX M/S 235/75-15 109T XL

Thanks, Mojo!

Given the fact free tire opinions many folks fling about the place like its Gospel, I'm not surprised at Flyingsilver's confusion.

No, we have not called the Mothership about these tires. Feel free to do so and post what you learn. It would be interesting.

Unlike many here, we're not pretend lawyers so we won't comment on or contribute to discussions of liability. Any real lawyers who may take offense at this remark should know that any advice they provide here is worth exactly what we paid them for it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyingsilver View Post
Question,



Since we need to replace our tires ASAP I have been considering in getting the LTX M/S.......108's but after reading this post, I m more confused than ever. My trailer GVWR is 7600 lbs and these tires support only 6746? Did I m reading something wrong here? Although on the cat scale we are at 6500 ,aren't we missing the boat here or I am so wrong in understanding this post.



Another question for the OP of this thread, did you ever contacted Ohio center about their opinion of these LT tires to be mounted on the Airstreams? Considering that now they are mounting P rated tires on the new big trailers?


What do they have to say? I mention this because there is not a tire shop here that will mount these tires on my trailer because of liabilties issues they say, the thing for us is that were do we stand in case per say of a catastrofic accident in case of a blow up and being at fault for not having the " right class tire? I have raised this question before, Rocinante any thoughts about this matter? It does not make any sense to read on this thread to to take my tires to the shop one or two at the time and tell them that these tires are for my old suburban. Tireman since you are the specialist can we get your opinion on the matter?
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Old 02-13-2016, 05:16 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by Rocinante View Post
Sorry, but as I understand it, this double de-rating idea is complete nonsense driven by a misunderstanding of what's been said.

BTW, if we can't find a tire shop that will mount these tires on the trailer when they become available, we'll probably go a different route. We're not removing wheels and carrying them in one pair ar a time. That's way too much work.
The derating .909 is industry standard fro application of P type tires on non passenger cars such as stationwagons, SUV, & P/U. Also for trailer application. This just gives a max load capacity for the expected service.

The 15% is what I and others suggest as a reasonable margin to allow for other variables such as cumulative errors in pressure gauge readings, side loading due to side winds, road crown and similar variables. Remember tires are tested on smooth drums with no pot-holes, no camber or toe loading etc. If you believe that you do not need any safety margin that is your decision. All I can do is offer my opinion based on 40 years as a tire design engineer and observations of well over 10,000 tire autopsies.
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Old 02-13-2016, 05:57 PM   #255
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Michelin Defender LTX M/S 235/75-15 109T XL

Thanks for the clarification. So the second number, unlike the first, is a safety margin thing vs. a hard/fast requirement. That's cool, makes sense.

It's also super-helpful to go back and read Andrew T.'s post based on his dealership's experience with a large number of trailers on 15" Michelin tires similar to these.

Assuming we can find a tire dealer who will do the deed, we'll go for it when the tires become available. If not, we'll bite the bullet and move up to the 16" wheels/tires and try to find someone who'd like to buy our lovely shiny 15" rims.
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Old 02-13-2016, 06:49 PM   #256
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The code Switz and others have quoted includes the 10% derating (for use of P metric tires on a trailer) and an additional 6% margin (load to be no more than 94% the derated load). This is less than our resident tire engineers who suggest 15% on top of the 10%. But if you go by this code (posted below), you get 1863# (1985*.94) per tire (or 7452# capacity for a double axle) for the 15" P-rated Michelin. On the scales fully loaded for camping (including full fresh water and propane) I come in around 6000# which means I'm only using 80% of the doubly de-rated amount of load capacity for these Michelins on my trailer.

I asked Airstream about this before switching them and they said it would not void my warranty. I didn't ask (and don't expect they'd answer) any questions about liability.

I also explained to my local Town Fair Tire what I was doing and they installed them at their shop. I did not get the warranty from Michelin because they were installed on a trailer (though I did get the rebate from Michelin they offered on a set of 4).

Each person should do their own research and be comfortable with their own decision regardless of what they read here (including what I've just written...).

Good luck!
-----------------
S4.2.2.2

When passenger car tires are installed on an MPV, truck, bus, or trailer, each tire's load rating is reduced by dividing it by 1.10 before determining, under S4.2.2.1, the sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle.

S4.2.2.3

(a) For vehicles, except trailers with no designated seating positions, equipped with passenger car tires, the vehicle normal load on the tire shall be no greater than 94 percent of the derated load rating at the vehicle manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressure for that tire.
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Old 02-13-2016, 11:55 PM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocinante View Post
Thanks for the clarification. So the second number, unlike the first, is a safety margin thing vs. a hard/fast requirement. That's cool, makes sense.

It's also super-helpful to go back and read Andrew T.'s post based on his dealership's experience with a large number of trailers on 15" Michelin tires similar to these.

Assuming we can find a tire dealer who will do the deed, we'll go for it when the tires become available. If not, we'll bite the bullet and move up to the 16" wheels/tires and try to find someone who'd like to buy our lovely shiny 15" rims.
Greetings,

255 posts, for sure we have learned a lot about tires and subs.
My take on this is, now that Airstream is fitting new heavy trailers since 2015 with Michelins LT, LTx's P rated? Tires (non st ).what do the rest of us do trapped with those lousy cheap ST manufactured tires that non tire shop will replace for similar tires of the new AS generation because of liabilities issues? And us discussing about all kind of stuff that really is beyond comprehension? We have to go after 255 posts of sense/ non sense? It is clear that there is a huge disconnect here among thks forum and with Airstream, a tire recall is in due order. And a new tire stikcker on the left front of the trailer with the new manufacturer tires specs. same like in the new trailers. Houston... are you there?
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Old 02-14-2016, 12:28 AM   #258
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Michelin Defender LTX M/S 235/75-15 109T XL

There will be no recall. ST tires remain officially sufficient unto the need. If you, like us, decide to switch to something else (e.g. the tires we started this thread about), it's on us to do so. On our own dime.

Actually, the last time I called them, folks at Airstream found this forum's obsession with eliminating ST tires to be puzzling and a bit pointless.
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Old 02-14-2016, 06:15 AM   #259
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It is for most AS owners who only tow a few hundred miles a year.
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Old 02-14-2016, 06:15 AM   #260
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Page after page of tire speak and I still can't find out why a few years ago on this forum no one ran LT tires.
The hot rubber was the bias ply trailer tire.
What changed? How did LT tires become trailer tires?
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Old 02-14-2016, 06:35 AM   #261
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Disagree Rocinante, the discussion of various tires different from the OP was helpful, and was well short of the tiresome OT drivel intentionally inserted into the thread as a joke.
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Old 02-14-2016, 07:49 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by Rocinante View Post
Sorry, but as I understand it, this double de-rating idea is complete nonsense driven by a misunderstanding of what's been said.........
I disagree.
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Old 02-14-2016, 08:06 AM   #263
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FlySilver

The factory is using 16" LT rated tires when they fit with Michelins. There is not currently a LT rated 15" Michelin on the market.

Many Airstreamers still run the GYM's.

From this thread you probably have enough information to make a decision.
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Old 02-14-2016, 09:33 AM   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingo Girl View Post
Page after page of tire speak and I still can't find out why a few years ago on this forum no one ran LT tires.
The hot rubber was the bias ply trailer tire.
What changed? How did LT tires become trailer tires?
Dingo Girl,
The LT tire solution for Airstreams has been on this forum since 2005.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...res-16506.html

There are a few people that think bias ply trailer tires are great. Some prefer ST tires, some 15" Michelin LTX MS/2 P235/75R15 108T XL. We all form our opinions on things based on experience, advice etc.

There was never a specific "trailer tire" until the advent of the "ST" tire. All Airstreams used bias ply 7:00-15 "Truck-Type" tires until 1980 when the radial tires became an option on higher end trailers. Some smaller trailers used a smaller tire, but it was a tubeless nylon "Truck-Type" tire.
Here is a spec sheet from 1967-
http://www.airstream.com/wp-content/...e44685398a.pdf
Here is a standard price list from 1980 showing the radial tire option-
http://www.airstream.com/wp-content/...dd3c1f1985.pdf

LT tires, or "Truck-Type" tires as Airstream historically referred to them, have been used on Airstreams since the beginning of Airstream.
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Old 02-14-2016, 09:41 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by Top View Post
Dingo Girl,
The LT tire solution for Airstreams has been on this forum since 2005.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...res-16506.html

There are a few people that think bias ply trailer tires are great. Some prefer ST tires, some 15" Michelin LTX MS/2 P235/75R15 108T XL. We all form our opinions on things based on experience, advice etc.

There was never a specific "trailer tire" until the advent of the "ST" tire. All Airstreams used bias ply 7:00-15 "Truck-Type" tires until 1980 when the radial tires became an option on higher end trailers. Some smaller trailers used a smaller tire, but it was a tubeless nylon "Truck-Type" tire.
Here is a spec sheet from 1967-
http://www.airstream.com/wp-content/...e44685398a.pdf
Here is a standard price list from 1980 showing the radial tire option-
http://www.airstream.com/wp-content/...dd3c1f1985.pdf

LT tires, or "Truck-Type" tires as Airstream historically referred to them, have been used on Airstreams since the beginning of Airstream.
Thank you for taking time to answer this.
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Old 02-15-2016, 05:06 AM   #266
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Just a little History Correction

Airstream started installing Light Truck Radial Tires in 1971, Michelin 7:00x15 Load Range "C" 45 PSI max pressure tires were standard equipment on the Excella 500 that year and optional on all Airstreams starting in 1972. Thousands of Airstreams were built with the Michelin option. Load capacity was 1740 pounds if my memory is correct. So Airstreams came with Radial tires before domestic cars and trucks did. When they first arrived we were really amazed at how much smoother they were and always recommended the option.

Michelins were available as an option until 1985. Around that time the availability of 7:00 x 15 Michelins became difficult, there was never a problem with the tire just availability which was difficult for production.

We continued to use 7:00 x 15 tires for many years in Toyo and Yokohama brands but availability became increasingly difficult. Sometimes the tires we were delivered with 3 years old before installation. In 2001 we started experimenting with the 235/75 x 15 tire as an alternative.

Loved the performance and reliability of the 7:00 x 15 Michelin but there are a couple of advantages with the 235. It puts less side to side stress on the axles when turning and it rides smoother. We really expected it to sway more when we first installed them but we have never been able to detect a difference even on single axles.

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