Marathon and other side-wall failures

[Steve Heywood]

Originally Posted by bhayden

Thanks for the info. The Yokohama didn't show up when I searched by brand. I had to put in the size. Turns out Yokohama also makes the Y742S:
http://www.yokohamatire.com/tbs_tire....asp?tireID=62
Interesting thing about this tire is it's M+S rated for winter driving AND, if I'm reading it right a 7.00R15 steel belted radial! I thought all the 7.00-15 tires were bias ply.

-Bernie

The Yokohama RY215 IS a radial. Years ago Michelin made a 7.00-15 radial.

[Frank S]

Hi--Goodyear still makes a 7.00-15 LT D bias ply tire, called "Workhorse Rib". Wal Mart sells them for $107.20 (special order). It is rated 2045lbs at 65psi.--Frank S

[Beginner]

Try this chain of events on for size:
The belts start to shift.
The reason for the shifting is because the materials the tire are made of cannot stand the heat the tire has built up.
This causes a slow leak.
In seconds the tire has lost 10% of its pressure.
Because of this the sidewalls start to flex at two to three times the normal rate.
This causes more heat.
The heat spike causes the belts to completly let go, or the tire shreads.
You take it to the dealer and he says shame on you, you overloaded the tire or ran it half flat.
You shut up and go away with a guilt trip and buy another tire of the same brand, or you wise up and start looking and reading.
I have seen tires go from 65 PSI to 58 in a two mile streach(my Tire pressure monitor system sounded off).
I checked the tire pressure via the monitor when I had to stop at the gas bottle shut off stop prior to going onto the Hampton Roads Bridge Tunnel(65 PSI).
Within two miles(between the Little Creek Road Overpass and the Tidewater Drive Overpass on Interstate 64 East)the monitor sounded off, 58 lbs and dropping.
I actually had some one here suggest that I was delusional, that could not have happened that way, but it did. I was enabled to see it unfold because I had the tire pressure monitor.
Too many people have been the recipent of guilt trips when it wasn't there fault, the tire let go......slowly, and then the failure was caused because the tire pressure was low.
Wake up.
Tire trouble on the road is not normal, but there is a group of people (certain tire manufacturers) doing their best to convince us that it is. Of course there are no complaints, you all believe the guilt trip laid upon you by the dealer and buy another tire and go away quietly.
Report your tire failures, they are most likely not your fault.
Make the test engineers responsible for testing such things determine this.
Go to:

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

or call: 1-888-327-4236, they will take it over the phone.
Help us all folks.
Beginner

[Beginner]

Steve, Frank
The original tire on my 1984 31 foot Excella was a Michelin XCA, it was a Radial and it was 7.00/15 and had sufficent load range for my unit.
I have two of them if you would like to see a picture of one. No I will never put them on anything, they are way too old.
Beginner

[bhayden]

After I found out about the Yokohama I googled for 700R15 and found there are a number of radials made in this size. Problem is availability in this country and I can't read "ジムニ－等に？7.00R15ジープタイヤ Yahoo!"

Michelin makes the XZM, Toyo an M914, Bridgestone the R 230., Dunlop the SP LT 01 . There's probably others but the Yokohama was the only All Season M+S rated one I found. I'd love to use a Toyo since that's what Les Schwab sells and they are THE place to buy in the Northwest. The M920 might fill the bill but it appears to only be available in Asia

-Bernie

[Steve Heywood]

Originally Posted by Beginner

Steve, Frank
The original tire on my 1984 31 foot Excella was a Michelin XCA, it was a Radial and it was 7.00/15 and had sufficent load range for my unit.
I have two of them if you would like to see a picture of one. No I will never put them on anything, they are way too old.
Beginner

Your 84 31' Excella weighs at least 1,000 lbs less than my 97. As I stated a LRD 7.00-15 would work for my trailer but wouldn't have much cushion.
I know exactly what a Michelin XCA looks like. I had a pair of 235/85-16s on the front of a C20 Chevy that looked almost new after 55,000 miles. One of Michelin's better light truck tires.

[acemech]

OK I've seen the numorous posts regarding Marathons.I personnally have had 2 blow out on 2 seperate occasions.I tow a 2000lb Tourney Ski boat with a tandem axle trailer(1500lb trailer).Tires are Marathon ST205/75R15C.They are checked for pressure cold before each trip and I beleive they are more than adequate for the job.Question is why did they fail?I tow mainly in the dessert, Calif/Blythe area.Both blow outs were coming into or out of Blythe.1st one happened within 5mi. of campground so I removed the tire without damage and replaced it.This last one happened doing the 65mph rated in about 115deg heat, on a downgrade off Churraicco summit.Blew the tire out and shredded it to pieces.Cause of both failures unknown...poss. road hazard, HEAT?I dismissed the first failure and did not have the tire inspected.Now with the second failure I'm doing the research.Anyone here have the link for the Marathon/Goodyear recall??I read about it but cannot find a link anywhere.
Please note the condition of the tires was excellent, only 15,000 to 20,000mi. on them, the problem I see being they sit garaged for a year at a time, without being run, with the boat weight on them AND at the time of the first failure they were 8yrs old!I'm sure this added to the problem.
Really interested in the recall program if anyone here can help.
Thanks a bunch...
Ron

[azflycaster]

It has been posted several times that the Marathons are only rated to 100 degrees and 65 miles an hour. I am not sure if that is fact or not. If it is, it might have had something to do with the failure. I am not going to take any chances with my next tires, I will buy them in the winter. Eight years is a long time for a tire to last. Most people will recomend replacement after around five.

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, I'm personally sick of all the crying about tire failures and the failure of some of you out there to admit you were driving too fast, overloaded, and under inflated. If you don't like Goodyear tires, buy something else, then when those blow out, don't tell anyone you were wrong and it really was your fault. But no, it's always easier to blame someone else. Maybe some of you geniuses out there can make a indestructable tire, then we all can sleep again.
Admit it, your the same person telling the cop as he writes you a speeding ticket: "please give me a break, this is the first time in my life I ever went over the speed limit."
I have not had any tire problems yet, but before this last trip, I checked my tires and they were low. Like at 45 lbs. I filled them up and hit the road. Aproximately 3,500 miles this time. Did I ever go too fast? Yes! I did a few times for a short period of time, up to about 75 MPH. Once, I think I hit 80 MPH. Did I know it was wrong to do it? Yes! Also before my trip, I noticed cracks in the sidewalls of the Continentals on my Navigator. [DOT code 4602 and 70% tread left] I replaced them with brand new Goodyears. Cheap insurance.
As my mom used to say, "instead of always passing blame, try looking in a mirror."
And for the rest of you out there, yes there are some, actually for real, defective tires made. As are defects in any mass produced item.

Bob

[Darrell Root]

I believe Goodyear has a pdf file on there web page that discusses road or outside temp. and psi. I also heard but not confirmed that Goodyear was 86ing the LRC 225/75/15 st tire. Oh, if bhayden is reading - regarding the R on the Maxxis tire website that stands for radial and is not the speed rating.---Darrell====whats with all the happy faces.

[azflycaster]

I found this link http://www.goodyear.com/rv/pdf/rvbrochure.pdf
It talks about the 65 MPH limit and I do not have a problem with that. I still can not find any information regarding air tempertures. That is a concern for me. It was 113 today and tomorrow will be a little hotter. BTW it is 11 PM and it is still over 100 degrees now.

[Darrell Root]

Try page 11 you may have to scroll to it. Hope is the right info. Darrell

[acemech]

Thanks for the update and the info on the mfg. specs for the rv/trailer tires.
I personnally have the G670 RV on my 33ft coach and am very happy with them.The only reason I'm fishing for the info regarding a recall is to see if these were included.(I still have 2 more on the trailer!)I am aware they have provided a great service life and am happy with the tries lasting as long as they did.But if they were involved in any type of recall campagn I'd be looking for some type of credit towards the 2 tires I have left.
Thanks again to all.

[Beginner]

The website in GoodYear you quoted contained the same page that I have found on other places on the GoodYear website.
The tire being tested at 100 Degrees (actually 95 Degrees +0, -10) is from the Federal Test Specification for these tires. It can be found at:

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/staticfiles...s/TP119-04.pdf

Please read the whole Test Specification. However the pertinent info can be found on page
4-17, the paragraph labeled: Test Procedure - Endurance test.
Again read the whole procedure so that nothing is out of context.
Beginner

[Paul and Sue]

Recently when one of my marathons blew out on while on the way to a long weekend camping trip we had a emergency tire service come out with a new tire. The tire they had in stock was a Rhoden he said it was a heavier duty tire compared to the Marathon. My Marathons are load range C (50psi) the new tire is 2540 @ 65psi load range D. Has anybody had any experience with these tires or has anyone heard of these? Apparently they are made somewhere in the orient?

[ArtStream]

Originally Posted by Paul and Sue

The tire they had in stock was a Rhoden he said it was a heavier duty tire compared to the Marathon. Apparently they are made somewhere in the orient?

I know Rhodan came from the orient

Michael

[william Haym]

Another good tire is Titan Tires. The ones I'm putting on are 225?75/15 class (E). There a little bit more money,but worth it!!!!

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by jcanavera

.Technically those folks exceeding the speed rating for their tire are unknowingly causing their load capacity to be reduced thus the potential for tire failure increases. For the Marathon tire that rating is 65 mph.Jack

hi jack and others.....
just reading this thread for the 1st time...what a lot of hot air!

anyway i noticed in the goodyear documentation this.......
http://www.goodyear.com/rv/pdf/marat...nfo_032806.pdf

bullet 2 addresses partially,
the issue many of us create....
driving faster than 65mph.......

my reading of this is
IF planning to drive faster, increase pressures by 10 psi,
not to exceed WHEEL limits...
i've got 15000lbs+ of capacity with my 6 tires inflated to 65 psi...
which is where i leave'em....
i routinely drive at 70....like lots of people.
another place in the rv towing guide
points out that this increases tread wear up to 30%
ok i can live with that....
20,000 miles on these tires
and i'm not getting any treadwear yet that i can measure.....
(hey maybe this is where that guy got the figure about decreasing tire "life" by 30%, in an old thread....

my point here and in the next post
is that running my tires at max pressure may shake the trailer (andy)
but gives me load capacity way above trailer weight (10,500-11,000)
and goodyear's formula suggests
IF i drive at 70, the 65 psi is above my needs too...

so now i'm feeling better about 72mph....
not ignoring the reaction times, mpg, braking distances and so on...

cheers
2air'

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by Bob Thompson

bhayden is absolutely correct. Heat is the key factor.

hi bob, bryan, azfly' and others looking at this.....

i posted this info in another thread but really it belongs here....
.................................................. ....................................
tire temps and so on.....

i 2 carry and use a laser temp gadget....mine is a sears craftsman electronics tool (for ac/dc volt/ohm/amp stuff) that included the laser thermometer...

i've used it regularly over the last year and still don't have a clue about the data i collect...

first what is it measuring? surface temps......only.
i use my hand as a reference...and usually get 91-92 degrees....but just a few millimeter below the surface in the tissue and blood my true temp is 95-98 degrees....

for metal this isn't an issue because metal is a good conductor of heat so surface and sub surface are gonna be real close...

so for hub temps or disc rotor temps i can understand using it to find the hot brake or the hot bearing....and i use it to watch these things too.

on the tire side...... rubber is a poor conductor of heat....

so how does surface temp actually correlate to side wall or tread base temps? i don't have a clue......

now for some data points.....
whenever i stop along the interstate i check temps.......
at 70-85 degree air temps my trailer tires are typically 80 degrees on the low side and 91 degrees as a high....and usually they are all within a 2-3 degree range.
my truck tires are usually 10-15 degrees warmer at 95-110. recently the rear truck tires have been 5 degrees warmer than fronts....and my axles loads are currently 3-400 higher on the rear....

it makes sense to me that the truck tires are warmer...they are turning, pulling and supporting greater loads and doing more types of heat producing work, while the trailer tires do less work so they should generate less heat....

i always measure shade side as the temps to watch......why?
sun side fluctuates wildly......often the sun side is 100 when the shade is 80 or sunside 120 when the shade side is 95....

and i've measured sun side 30 minutes AFTER stoping and it is some times 130+ while the shade side is 80 or less.....

even before driving sun side tire surface temps measure 130+ if in direct sun and air temps are 85 or above.....

my point here is we have all learned tires fail from heat....
but at what temp is this an issue?
and how do we relate surface temps to the meat of a tire?

perhaps what we really need is temp sensors inside the tire along with pressure monitors....and this is the data we could follow...tire air pressures and temps. or perhaps tires with radio frequency temp emittors imbedded in the cords....and this is the info to follow...

just come thoughts on hot tires

cheers
2air'
.................................................. ......................

so bob and others,

what i'd like to know is at WHAT temp are tires negatively effected and how does surface temp measurement relate to internal/core temps?

anyone know?

[Beginner]

Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel, why dont we just report all tire failures for what ever reason to the NHTSA and track their posting. This will call attention to the problem and force examination and testing of these suspect tires.
Go to the web site and see for yourself how many failures are actually reported.
The NHTSA is driven by numbers.
The manufacturers are loving the apathy exhibited by us the consumer.
The tire companies have been very succesfull in convincing us that these tire failures are our fault.
Don't believe it.
Tire failures are not a part of vacation.
They are the result of less expensive construction techniques, lack of quality control and offshore manufacturering (lower labor costs and lack of expertiece).
Simply Report the Failures

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/pr...callsearch.cfm

1-888-327-4236

Beginner