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Old 07-07-2006, 01:54 AM   #15
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Scott, no problem ,I knew you were refering to the other post. I just wanted to add more info to my situation. If anyone has experience with Maxxis tires-lets here it. Thanks Darrell
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Old 07-07-2006, 02:00 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottanlily
I am stating factual information that has been posted here and on other rv sights.
It's a fact that the reports are posted but I don't take everything posted as being fact. It may be that the Marathon has a worse track record than other tires but there's simply not enough information to statisticly support this. Another question I have is why don't we see posts for tire failure on Private Brand tires made by Goodyear when rebadged Marathons have been sold for years under other names?

Failures of more than one tire at a time don't necessarilly indicate a quality problem with the tire. The failure of the first tire put's added stress on the rest of the tires. A tire on a tandem axle trailer could be low on air for an entended period causing the other tire on that side to carry all the load. That might actually be the first to fail and then the tire already low is suddenly carrying nearly half the total trailer weight. No tire is going to tolerate that for long.

I'm not thrilled with any of the ST tire choices. For starters none of them are made in a size that matches the original 7.00x15 tires my trailer was designed for and I can't afford to give up ground clearance. Second, when you look at the weight of tires there's a direct relationship between the weight (construction) and the cost. ST trailer tires are basicly lightweight cheap tires. That's what the market has decided people want in a trailer tire. Note that you have no choice in a Winter tread/compound (M+S rating) or speed rating (heat dissipation) with the exception being Cooper.

It sure would be interesting to find out more about the Goodyear tires made for U-Haul. If they're already producing a higher quality tire (note I said IF) then why not market it? It should be a higher margin product than the Marathon and more production would mean lower costs for U-Haul. If on the other hand it's just made cheaper then I can understand Goodyear not wanting to damage it's reputation (and profit margin) by devaluing the brand name.

-Bernie
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Old 07-07-2006, 02:14 AM   #17
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Bernie I believe Goodyear is a rebadged Greenball Towmaster. Darrell
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Old 07-07-2006, 03:14 AM   #18
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you know bernie , other folks not just on other sites have had tire failures with the marathons ,so why discount all experiences as not valid ,how much info do you need anyway .I have said not all but it reads as many .i posted another thread and it has dissappeared somehow ,so if it reappears some things may be repeated here. I run herculese 700-15 tires bias with real
5 ply tread and 4 real sidewall plys ,marathons only have 2 ply sidewall .
I know my tires are strong and heavy duty 5000 miles so far .These ST tires
need to be built more heavily and stronger ,that will solve the problems.
I use to adjust tires for a living before my current profession ,so i know about tires as I had to determine why a tire failed ,the type of failure and no how to read tires as well as a tire installer for some time .Anyway I guess I need to explain that i just might not be so ignorant when we discuss tires here and
I believe other good and better options are worth looking at.

Scott
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Old 07-07-2006, 07:56 AM   #19
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Scott,

There are some other factors you're overlooking. First is that Marathons seem to be far and away used more frequently in RV trailer applications than any other tire from other manufacturers. They are going to have more reported failures just because there are so many of them out there. The second issue is that Goodyear can't control how their tires are used. Many RV manufacturers mount the tires and are overloaded at factory-option curb weights before any 'owner' stuff is placed into a trailer. Scamp 5th wheels are a prime example; they use tires rated at 2700 lbs max on a trailer with a 2700 lb dry curb weight and a 3500 lb GVWR axle.

To say that Marathons fail at a higher per-unit rate than other manufacturers' tires just from anecdotal reports and without any supporting emperical evidence is a little reckless. I have yet to see comparative data from tire manufacturers, magazines, or any consumer group with that kind of data.

While Marathons aren't the only tires out there, and I've had Cooper STs and Carlisle STs in the past as well, the only tires I've had fail on a trailer were on a tandem boat trailer equipped with overloaded p-metric car tires.

Regardless of the brand, if you make sure the tires are properly weight rated for the load, are ST rated, are in good condition (regularly inspected), and less than five years old, the odds of having a blowout (sidewall failure) are reduced radically.

Roger
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Old 07-07-2006, 11:19 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottanlily
well jack you have a right to your opinion ,and I believe I read the marathon
was being phased out .My small input could not possibly affect goodyear .I read all of your personal opinions as well as others touting this tire as the best thing ever ,frankly its tiring .I am stating factual information that has been posted here and on other rv sights.I will say that the overloading issue is a real problem and the marathon cannot tolerate it .I have said in past posts that the weight issue was a weakness .Scott
Scott, you've hit the nail on the head. Overloading is a real problem and overloading will cause tire failure. The overload can be caused by carrying weight in excess of the maximum pressures as stated on the tire sidewall, or insufficient pressure in the tire to carry the weight load of the trailer. In either case once you exceed those specifications, no tire manufacturer has any responsibility to support you as a customer or user. I wouldn't doubt that there is the potential that some tires may have more capacity in reserve to deal with this issues and Goodyear's may not be as tolerant. That in itself does not make the tire bad. If anything, it hammers in the fact that people need to be vigilant and take a proactive approach in dealing with their tires. If you have attended the tire training sessions that RVSELF puts on (I have) they emphasize the need to know what your trailer weighs and know how much it weighs when you load it up. I've weighed my trailer and have done the homework.

I'm not dissing any other tire. If you notice in one of my posts I comment that if the tire you have on presently works for you, then you might as well continue using it in the future when you look for replacement.

No I don't work for Goodyear, I work in a Convention Center so don't think there is any bias for them from me.

I continue to contend that you aren't considering the universe of tires out there. The most popular tire is going to have a higher number of reported failures, and to do a fair assessment one needs to look at that as a percentage of overall tires in use. Until someone provides hard statistics on those percentages by brand of tire, any reference to a tire being bad based on the number of reports you see on the Internet has questionable value.

I appreciate your concern regarding the issue, and like you said I certainly do not want to see my trailer damaged by a tire that is defective. My issue is keeping a balance on this discussion and making the point that this is not cut and dried that Marathon's are bad tires.

Jack
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Old 07-07-2006, 11:30 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhayden
Failures of more than one tire at a time don't necessarilly indicate a quality problem with the tire. The failure of the first tire put's added stress on the rest of the tires. A tire on a tandem axle trailer could be low on air for an entended period causing the other tire on that side to carry all the load. That might actually be the first to fail and then the tire already low is suddenly carrying nearly half the total trailer weight. No tire is going to tolerate that for long.

-Bernie
Bernie, this brings up an interesting point. If you notice in your Airstream documentation they note that if you have to tow with only one tire on a tandem, you go no faster than 45 mph.

What most people don't know is that load capacity of a tire is also affected by speed. Not all tire manufacturers will have a public chart but one I have from a manufacturer shows that the load capacity of a tire actually increases as the speed drops. That's why the recommendation is to slow down when towing on one tire, since that tire can accomodate the heavier load if the speed is kept down.

Technically those folks exceeding the speed rating for their tire are unknowingly causing their load capacity to be reduced thus the potential for tire failure increases. For the Marathon tire that rating is 65 mph.

Jack
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Old 07-07-2006, 01:40 PM   #22
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The speed rating it sort of confusing. It really should be graded according to heat disipation. I'd be surprised if any of the ST tires would manage an A grade for Temperature (Cooper maybe). The load rating is at 65mph which makes sense as that's about the legal limit for trailers on most highways. But also of note is that in many parts of the country you're load capacity even at 65 is diminished by heat. Towing across South Dakota in the summer at 60mph may actually put more stress on the tire than 70mph in cooler climates. That's why I'm not all to impressed with any of the ST radials. It would seem that the only way to get any margin is to buy one or two load range greater than you need but continue to run them at or at least close to the orriginally recommended pressure.

It certainly doesn't help that all of the available sizes are undersize in relation to the original equipment 7.00x15 that most of the older trailers are designed for. Smaller tires mean more revolutions per mile which means more heat to dissipate from a smaller tire. About the only way to get back to the original design daimeter with the lower aspect ration of todays radial tires is to make the switch to 16" rims.
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Old 07-07-2006, 01:49 PM   #23
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Hi bhayden--Why not stay with 7.00-15 LT-D, which are still available, like I do?--Frank S
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Old 07-07-2006, 02:17 PM   #24
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bhayden is absolutely correct. Heat is the key factor. The NHTSA tracked failures of the Firestone tires which lead to fatalities and found that far and away most fatalities occured in the southern states! see http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd..._TireAging.pdf

They were mostly in California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Oklahoma, and Florida.

The lucky northerners in such places as North Dakota, Wyoming, Montana and similar states all added together had almost no fatalities related to the Firestone tires. However, Texas had 35 fatalities. Heat was the critical variable. It could be why so many southerners are up in arms about tire failures and northerners brag about the great service they get from their tires. As Beginner has pointed out repeatedly, speed rating is the key to how a tire reacts to heat and thus the key to durability.

This heat factor has the NHTSA testing tires in the Phoenix area to determine their ability to carry loads in elevated heat conditions in order to create a new more accurate test of tire aging.
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Old 07-07-2006, 02:30 PM   #25
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Here is a web site that has a lot of information about the Marathon:
http://www.goodyear.com/rv/products/marathon.html
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Old 07-07-2006, 02:49 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank S
Hi bhayden--Why not stay with 7.00-15 LT-D, which are still available, like I do?--Frank S
That's certainly an option that I haven't ruled out. The bias ply tires on the trailer now tow just fine; Monarch, private brand tire made by, guess who... Goodyear.

The reasons for thinking I want to go radial:
Better milage: nice side benefit but not worth giving up more important qualities for.
Better grip in wet or winter driving conditons: maybe not with the available tread and tire compounds
Smoother ride: haven't noticed a big problem but if I can reduce wear and tear on the trialer it's a bonus
Better heat disipation: Important except this quality of radial construction seems to have been used to produce a cheaper rather than better tire.

Doesn't sound like there's a compelling reason to limit the search to radial tires, does it? Unfortunately the ST bias ply tires have the same problem as far as being built to a spec that limits travel to 65mph on nice spring days. Yes they have more plies but that's because they need them to overcome greater heat build up in the tire. One question I have is if the construction of the bias ply tires is less prone to catastophic failure; the kind of shrapnel condition that occurs when steel belted radials let loose. Steel belts are great at reducing the number of puctures due to road debris. However, when they do fail they can result in causing tremendous damage. Another question is resistance to the out of round condition caused when a tire sits in one place for an extended period. If memory serves that's more of an issue with radial tires but I could have that backwards in my swiss chesse mind

-Bernie
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Old 07-07-2006, 03:04 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by bheyden
Quote:
Click on "Full specifications". Makes me wonder what will happen in a warantee situation. It's too bad as Cooper is the only manufacturer that I've seen give the Service Description. For the load range D tire it's 113S ( 113 = 2561pounds, S = speed rated to 112 mph). This is the way Passenger tires (P) and Light Truck (LT) are rated. I haven't seen any LT tires that come close to this rating so I think you're only choice are the Special Trailer (ST) type tires.
I don't understand the "speed rated to 112 mph". Does that mean the tire can be towed on the trailer going 112 mph or is that an equivalent to conditions on a car? What does it mean? Or is there any meaning to it in relation to a trailer?
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Old 07-07-2006, 03:53 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate
I don't understand the "speed rated to 112 mph". Does that mean the tire can be towed on the trailer going 112 mph
Speed ratings are certified maximum sustained speed designations. So, yes IF it's not too warm you can cross Montana at 112mph in your Airstream . Really it's just a relative scale to help determine the heat dissapating characteristics of one tire vs another. Here's a full explaination:

http://www.yokohamatire.com/utspeed.asp

Basicly Cooper has put their tire to the test and is willing to certify their product meets the standards required for ST tires and exceeds it in heat disipation.

-Bernie
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