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Old 10-06-2013, 10:50 AM   #1
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making me crazy reading about tires

My tires are 10 years old. Big letters say... TOW MASTER-TRAILER RADIALS, labeled for " trailer service only" ST225/75R15. My rims are cool looking, and don't want to pay for new 16s. Seems like I don't want STs or GYM either.
Anybody know about TOW MASTERS??? I had good luck but they are STs
HELP!!!!!!! I guess Michelin doesn't make 15" LTs
I don't even know the difference between ST and LT ( light truck ?) Can someone educate me?

I trust you guys way more than ANY tire dealers, but every thread here is either split down the middle or a" discussion " that rivals the interactions of Congress.

I would have thought that Airstream would know what to use, but the cynic in me thinks that they are getting an awesome deal from Goodyear.
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Old 10-06-2013, 10:59 AM   #2
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What's your trailer?

LT tires are good enough to install on a passenger vehicle and have good load-carrying capacity (specified by the Load Range.) There are very few true LT tires available in 15" sizes these days. The 15" Michelins I run on my trailer are called "LTX" by Michelin, but they're not true LTs, they're P-metric tires with an XL load rating, and provide way more load-carrying capacity than I need for my '70s tandem-axle Argosy trailers. They probably wouldn't be enough for a single-axle trailer unless it's an old very light trailer.

Airstream uses the 16" LT-rated version of the LTX on Eddie Bauer trailers and offers that upgrade across most of the line.
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Old 10-06-2013, 11:32 AM   #3
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I have an Argosy 20'

Specs say 2700 lbs dry, but I added AC, extra battery, beefed up the furniture etc....add water , propane, so I am probably about 3250 lbs.
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Old 10-06-2013, 11:39 AM   #4
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First, green ball makes TowMaster Tires

Warranty

They are warranted for 2 years by defect, etc., and are a trailer tire- ST rated.

I have Towmax tires. Power King Towmax STR Tires | The New Standard in Premium Trailer Tires

They are warranted for five years from purchase date and include free roadside assistance for two years. They are trailer tires- ST

The difference between ST and LT tires are, by industry definition, tires designated for trailer or truck use. Trailer tires have two ply sidewalls; however, the cords used are larger diameter (stronger) to withstand side shearing force - turning trailers, etc., and designed to be load bearing- this all by definition. The LT truck tires are designed for load bearing but no mention of side shear force.

The issue is that many RV peeps have complained about the bad quality and durability of the trailer tires - ST. They seem to blow, bubble, etc sooner than expected. Overall, most of these issues can be related to one brand of tire, Goodyear Marathon ST. There are some concerns over other brands but there are fewer records of mass failure.

The concerns have led many to abandon ST tires completely and go to LT tires arguing that they are designed for loads and have more R&D behind them with design, etc. The issue though is that, as I recently found, dealers are being told to waiver any warranty for mounting or tires by customer signature, if customers want to put truck tires on trailers. Further, the companies void the warranty if not installed on specifically what they were designed for. Regardless, many RV owners are upgrading their wheels to 16" to be able to find more options for LT tires for use on trailers.
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Old 10-06-2013, 11:41 AM   #5
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mandolindave: I also have a 20' Argosy and loaded it weighs 4200# total with the hitch weight being 720#. So the Axle is caring about 3500# on two tires.

I decided to go to new 16" rims and tires on mine as tire failure on a single axle trailer is not a pretty site. But if you stay with 15" wheels then you need to be sure that your tires are capable of at least a rating of 1800# per tire, at max PSI.

I am also sending you a private message.
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Old 10-06-2013, 11:42 AM   #6
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The Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL tires are more than adequate for your existing application. They are derated for trailer use to 1,983 pounds and are 28.9" in diameter as compared to 28.3" diameter of the GYM tires. Also the Michelins are not speed limited to 65 mph like "ST" tires.

See the extra tire width and better tread and height difference in the photo below of the OEM Marathon with 500 miles on it on the left and the new Michelin on the right.
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Old 10-06-2013, 11:48 AM   #7
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Michelin does make a 15" light truck tire.
LTX M/S2 | Michelin Tires
Their load rating, 1985 lbs at 50 psi, has to be de-rated for trailer use, and also de-rated for a safety factor. Don't think it will work for your single axle.

edit; I have used the Power King Tow Max E rated tires on my trailer for the last 3 years. I inflate to 60psi since my stock wheels are rated for only 65psi They work great!
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Old 10-06-2013, 12:39 PM   #8
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Yes, A W. It is called a light truck tire. But on the tire it says p235/15/XL. I have a set on my trailer I put on in May. Michelin rated it as a P tire so that the rated load would be higher. With the 10% reduction for trailer use the load rating for this tire is 1985 lbs.

To the OP: either the GYM's (ST) or the Michelin p235/15/XL. I use the Michelin and pull my trailer a whole lot. It is a double axle.
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Old 10-06-2013, 01:31 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill M. View Post
Yes, A W. It is called a light truck tire. But on the tire it says p235/15/XL. I have a set on my trailer I put on in May. Michelin rated it as a P tire so that the rated load would be higher. With the 10% reduction for trailer use the load rating for this tire is 1985 lbs.

To the OP: either the GYM's (ST) or the Michelin p235/15/XL. I use the Michelin and pull my trailer a whole lot. It is a double axle.
The 1985 lb rating I stated is the manufacturer's rating before any de-rating is applied. This number came from the manufacturer's website, found on the web-link I provided in my prior post. This figure must be de-rated due to use on a trailer, to 1786 lb I think. Also, it is prudent to de-rate for a safety factor.

This would make this specific tire unsuitable for the original poster's single axle trailer. For a double axle 25' it would be fine. (I am basing this statement on my limited knowledge and my memory of prior postings by CapriRacer, a tire professional)
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Old 10-06-2013, 01:50 PM   #10
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The weight numbers on the Michelin website are probably left over from when the LTX 235 75 15 tire was rated as an LT "C" rated tire. I have a new set of the P235 Michelins on my trailer. The sidewall says 2183 lbs at a max pressure of 50 psi. I emailed Michelin about the error and got back some gibberish response. Derate should be based on 2183lbs starting point.
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Old 10-06-2013, 02:03 PM   #11
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Still unclear about the Michelin LTX warrantee

The Michelin site makes NO mention of using them for trailers, But I might call them on Monday.

I have had good luck with my Tow Master STs. They have not been covered for 10 years and show no sign of dry rot, cracking, OR wear. The Tow Master Power Kings are calling themselves " the new standard in premium trailer tires" Just hype? Who knows, but they seem to be ready to stand behind them for my application. I am surprised that they are not mentioned much on the GYM threads

ANYWAY....Newbies usually say this but...You guys are the greatest, and I really appreciated that you took time out to help me. I feel so much better.
THANK YOU SOOOOOO MUCH. Sincerely, Mandolin Dave

PS I have only used the camper for few, and very short trips for the past 3 or 4 years, because of the age of the tires, and the economy. I have been avoiding highways as much as possible.
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Old 10-06-2013, 02:06 PM   #12
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I learned something, thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridgerunner3 View Post
The weight numbers on the Michelin website are probably left over from when the LTX 235 75 15 tire was rated as an LT "C" rated tire. I have a new set of the P235 Michelins on my trailer. The sidewall says 2183 lbs at a max pressure of 50 psi. I emailed Michelin about the error and got back some gibberish response. Derate should be based on 2183lbs starting point.
It's crazy that the manufacturer would not keep their website up to date!
I looked on Tire Rack's website and found that the 2183 lb rating you stated is posted there. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....ewall=Outlined

So, de-rated 10% trailer use and 10% safety factor, this tire would be around 1768 lb+/-? Is this correct math?
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Old 10-06-2013, 02:23 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mandolindave View Post
The Michelin site makes NO mention of using them for trailers, But I might call them on Monday.
I have corresponded with a Michelin customer service rep, by email and also called. The rep told me they consider using the light truck or passenger tires on a trailer "improper", which they told me voids their warranty. They use this specific wording in their written warranty. I posted this few years back, while I was researching tires.

This makes me wonder how the Michelin tires that come from the Airstream factory are warrantied. Has anyone had an experience with obtaining service for Michelin tires on a trailer while under warranty?
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Old 10-06-2013, 02:35 PM   #14
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The 10% derated load for the LTX is 1985, I think. Exactly the same load as the older LT tires were rated for. I think the de-ratiing for trailer use only applies to P tires. I do not think you need to derate load range C LT tires. No, Michelin does not suggest or encourage any of their 15" tires for for trailers. In 16" I think they offer trailer tires. DOT requires the 10% derating for p tires on a trailer. They do not require an additional derating for a safety factor.

If one believes that ST tires are correct for a trailer and that they are well made then one should run them. No decisions to worry about. I don't. So I found an alternative that works for me. I also considered the 50 psi rating suggested limit on my wheels. I would have to run C GYM's or under inflate the D GYM's.
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