making me crazy reading about tires

[rodsterinfl]

I just read through the Michelin Truck Tire Warranty 2013 and see NOTHING that states if installed on a trailer that the warranty is void. So, the dealer may be wrong. It does mention using on motorhomes and it is covered.

[gmw photos]

Another of the few remaining options of LT for 15" rims in the Continental Vanco 2.
215/70-15 LR D is rated as 2271 lb @ 65 psi

[A W Warn]

Originally Posted by switz

:

49 CFR 571.110

Tire selection and rims and motor home/recreation vehicle trailer load carrying capacity information for motor vehicles with a GVWR of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) or less.

S4.2.2.1
Except as provided in S4.2.2.2, the sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle shall not be less than the GAWR of the axle system as specified on the vehicle's certification label required by 49 CFR part 567. If the certification label shows more than one GAWR for the axle system, the sum shall be not less than the GAWR corresponding to the size designation of the tires fitted to the axle.

S4.2.2.2
When passenger car tires are installed on an MPV, truck, bus, or trailer, each tire's load rating is reduced by dividing it by 1.10 before determining, under S4.2.2.1, the sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle.

S4.2.2.3
(a) For vehicles, except trailers with no designated seating positions, equipped with passenger car tires, the vehicle normal load on the tire shall be no greater than 94 percent of the derated load rating at the vehicle manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressure for that tire.
(b) For vehicles, except trailers with no designated seating positions, equipped with LT tires, the vehicle normal load on the tire shall be no greater than 94 percent of the load rating at the vehicle manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressure for that tire.

Would you mind sharing the source of these?
Thanks!

[gmw photos]

Originally Posted by A W Warn

Would you mind sharing the source of these?
Thanks!

Alan,
if you do a search for 49 CFR 571.110 it will lead you to various DOT and other documents regarding tire specs

[A W Warn]

Originally Posted by rodsterinfl

I just read through the Michelin Truck Tire Warranty 2013 and see NOTHING that states if installed on a trailer that the warranty is void. So, the dealer may be wrong. It does mention using on motorhomes and it is covered.

This is a link to the warranty for Michelin Light Truck and Passenger tires.
http://www.michelinman.com/mediabin/...omise_Plan.pdf
When I asked the customer service rep at Michelin about warranty of these tires on a trailer, they referred me to page 1 (which is 4/30 in the pdf) about 2/3 down where it talks about misuse or misapplication.

I'm not trying to argue a point, just pointing out what Michelin told me.

[A W Warn]

Originally Posted by gmw photos

Alan,
if you do a search for 49 CFR 571.110 it will lead you to various DOT and other documents regarding tire specs

A link to the document
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-201...sec571-110.pdf

[rodsterinfl]

Hey AW Warn. You probably got a similar message that I got from my local dealer. I did look over the warranty on your link, it was different from the Truck Tire Warranty book. I did not see anywhere where misapplication was spelled out nor did it exclude trailers except on the three year road assistance warranty which says it does not include the replacement, etc. So, I am not sure they would be able to call it misapplication do you? Just thinking.

[perryg114]

I don't know why everyone is worried about warrantees. Passenger and Light truck tires very rarely fail. I have never returned a tire for failure. I have returned some that were out of round. I have never had a tire blow out. I am not talking about trailer tires and I don't run trailer tires on my trailer. For the rare occurance of a tire failure, just buy a new one and move on. If you want a warrantee just tell them that the 15" 6 bolt rims you brought in are from a 90 Suburban 4x4.

Perry

[rodsterinfl]

Personally I agree with you perryg114 and am considering moving to 16" myself with Mich tires in the future BUT in this crazy litigation world we live in, the dealer freaked me out when I was getting my truck tires rotated recently and asked about getting the tires for my trailer, how much, etc and he came back with all this no you don't want to do that and I said that many were doing it and he said that they would have to have a waiver of warranty signed for them and Mich for customer override, no warranty and talked about safety, etc That is the reason.

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by rodsterinfl

Personally I agree with you perryg114 and am considering moving to 16" myself with Mich tires in the future BUT in this crazy litigation world we live in, the dealer freaked me out when I was getting my truck tires rotated recently and asked about getting the tires for my trailer, how much, etc and he came back with all this no you don't want to do that and I said that many were doing it and he said that they would have to have a waiver of warranty signed for them and Mich for customer override, no warranty and talked about safety, etc That is the reason.

I shared the DOT info with my tire vendor (Town Fair Tire) and they had no problem with it. They also included their own warranty and free rotations and other services. Unfortunate that everyone's mileage varies on this!

[CapriRacer]

I just wanted to point out that the information about load and inflation pressure is incorrect on the Michelin website. As it was pointed out, the info seems to be from an LT235/75R15. Maybe whoever looked this up, looked at the wrong chart.

And regarding the warranty and misapplication: This has been debated thoroughly in many, many, websites - to no conclusion. On the one side, it is permissible to use both P metric and LT metric tires on trailers. On the other side, it is understandable that a tire manufacturer would want to protect themselves from legal liability.

[A W Warn]

I looked it up. You can see for yourself LTX M/S2 | Michelin Tires, then click on specificaions near the upper right, then click on the yellow tab to the right side where it says more.

Today I sent an email to Michelin to ask them about this discrepancy between their website and Tire Rack's. I would bet a $ to a donut hole that whoever responded did not even look.

This was their response.
"We appreciate your interest in considering the LTX M/S2 – P235/75R15/XL 108T – part number 36210.

Please be advised that our record shows that this tire can hold a maximum load of 1985 lbs at 50 psi. Tire Rack is a third party company, we apologize that the information on their website is not accurate. We apologize for any inconvenience.

We appreciate your business and thank you for considering Michelin."

I wish one of you who has these tires would add a photo. I would like to respond back with a photo;-)

[DKB_SATX]

Here's one. I had it in the back if the truck from getting a new valve stem.

[slowmover]

To the OP: Go and read all posts by both CapriRacer and Tireman9 on this forum. And maybe some of the surrounding posts in those threads. The former has a website, and the latter a blog. Also worth reading as both are highly trained & experienced tire engineers.

As well, see posts on tires by Andrew_T of Can Am RV (favors Michelin of a particular spec).

Remember that it is the questions we ask that are more important than a particular answer. But these are where you should start, IMO.

And much of the discussion above is moot until the TT is weighed per wheel location. Each wheel, individually. Then, and only then will one have the necessary information to determine actual need. Guesstimates are not our friends.

FWIW, my next set of tires/wheels will be 16" LT commercial service tires. Probably BRIDGESTONE, the Duravis m250. After I've done the above weighing of both TT and TV so as to spread the load carried (payload) to both vehicles to best suit.

I agree with perryg114 as to concerns about warranty. I'd be more concerned with national tire distribution so as to get back on the road quickly.

Good luck

.

[LFC]

Here's a D rated 15" LT tire...2335lbs at 65 PSI

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....omCompare1=yes

[BlackAces]

Originally Posted by A W Warn

This is a link to the warranty for Michelin Light Truck and Passenger tires.
http://www.michelinman.com/mediabin/...omise_Plan.pdf
When I asked the customer service rep at Michelin about warranty of these tires on a trailer, they referred me to page 1 (which is 4/30 in the pdf) about 2/3 down where it talks about misuse or misapplication.

I'm not trying to argue a point, just pointing out what Michelin told me.

On page #3 of this reference you will find the statement ; “Use of MICHELIN tires that is inconsistent with the safety and/or
maintenance information provided in your owner’s manual.” As a disqualifying factor under “what is not covered”.

So, what does your owners manual say about replacement tires?

On another subject discussed above is the NHTSA regulations. They are minimum standards for vehicle manufacturer’s to apply. Any tire, DOT certified for highway service, can be fitted to the RV trailer axles - design limitations permitting. It’s a vehicle manufacturer’s responsibility and under normal circumstances will not be challenged by any tire manufacturer. On the other hand, the tire manufacturer will consider it a misapplication of their product to use Light Truck (LT) or Passenger (P) tires as replacements for Special Trailer (ST) tires that were/are Original Equipment (OE) tires. A prudent tire retailer will ask a customer what is described on their trailer’s certification label.

Vehicle manufacturer exceptions will be listed in the vehicle’s owner’s manual as options.

BA

[switz]

Actually, if you download and read the Eddie Bauer manual, there is no mention of the 16" tires and wheels the factory will install on that trailer as an option. So there must be a supplemental page given to the owner as the sticker on the side will mention only 15" ST blow-a-thons.

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by switz

Actually, if you download and read the Eddie Bauer manual, there is no mention of the 16" tires and wheels the factory will install on that trailer as an option. So there must be a supplemental page given to the owner as the sticker on the side will mention only 15" ST blow-a-thons.

While they don't specify Michelin or LT, Airstream does list "Radial Black Wall Tires, LRE 16” " on the standard equipment page for Eddie Bauer trailers. There is a 16" Marathon, but I've never heard of anything but the Michelin LTs coming on Eddie Bauers from the factory.

[John&Vicki]

This is easily the most confusing topic here for me.

I have read many of the seemingly interminable threads and have come away with only one thing that I know for sure - I don't have the intelligence required to process the many data points. I feel like I'm drinking from a fire hose.

I'm a little groggy, but I have come away with the following:

o My trailer has brand new Firestone ST225/75R15 E Omni Trails installed by the PO. I can't find much information on these, I do like the E-rating, but I believe they're made in China. Unless these pose real and present danger I would like to use them up. My wife and I are leaving on a 5-6,000 trip in January - think these are OK?

When it is time to replace them:

o I have learned to avoid Goodyear Marathons like I would avoid rabid bats.

o Might be nice to avoid the Asian pot stickers.

o I love the idea of cool looking aluminum 16" rims with the proper Michelins. Coming from the Porsche world I've learned to like Michelins. When it comes time to replace my tires that's a likely course of action - provided there's something in the vault.

o If the vault is empty, I will probably go with the 15" Michelins recommended and used by Andy - http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...tml#post914066

And I'm going to refrain from reading about tires for a while - going to catch up on TinCrumpet's adventures.

Poppy

[John&Vicki]

Oh, and just to hedge my bet a bit, I will be installing a TPMS.

Poppy