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Old 09-12-2015, 08:54 PM   #1
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Karrier ST205/75R14 Radial Trailer Tire - Load Range D

I know that the topic of replacement tires for 14" wheels has been discussed before, but I can't find a good answer on this forum. I currently own a 2013 Flying Cloud 23FB with 14" wheels. I don't want to replace the rims, but I'm not happy with the poor quality of the GY tires that it came with, having experienced catastrophic blowouts in the past. I'm looking for the best tire I can fit on my existing rims...I understand that choices are limited. In searching the web, I found a tire (subject of this heading) that has a D load rating, which is somewhat of an improvement over the C load rating I have now.

My question here is very basic. What is the best rated spec tire I can purchase now to fit my existing 14" rims? Is the Karrier a good tire in anyone's experience? What are my other options, if any? Jeff
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Old 09-13-2015, 05:07 PM   #2
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Does anyone have any experience with the Maxxis ST Radial M-8008 Radial Tire - 215/75R14 50R?
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Old 09-13-2015, 07:03 PM   #3
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I have been using kumho 857 for about 25k miles and 3 years without any issues. They still look almost new.

http://m.tirerack.com/tires/TireResu...=14&zipCode=#0


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Old 09-13-2015, 10:57 PM   #4
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We could not find a suitable 14" non "ST" tire for the 2015 23D, so we did the upgrade:

Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL tires 2,183 pounds @ 50 psi derated to 1,985 pounds

SenDel T03-56545T wheels 15x6 - 5/4.50" bolt circle - zero offset - 3.19 center bore 2,150 pounds at 60 psi - we re-used the stock wheel hubs

Dill TPMS #1506 - 453 valve stems & #1900 crystal monitor

Centramatic wheel balancers part number 200-221 "standard"

McGard 24138 Chrome Cone Seat Wheel Locks and McGard 64010 Chrome Bulge Cone Seat Style Lug Nuts

With a little creative welding to lengthen the wheel storage support arm 2", we are able to fit the 15" spare in the usual location under the "A" frame

The 23D hitch is now at the same elevation as our 25FB was with these same tires, so all the Hensley hitch modifications will work just fine on the 23D.
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Old 09-14-2015, 02:59 PM   #5
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Cool

Jeff,

I have a 16' Bambi (single axle with ST215x75 R14) and I have been wondering the same thing you have about tires. I would also be interested in knowing what others have done about 14 inch tires and wheels. Because I question whether upgrading to a 15" wheel & tire would even fit my 16' Bambi.
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Old 09-14-2015, 04:36 PM   #6
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I've never heard of a Karrier brand tire. I personally use GYM ST's which have given very good service for many years. Several of my fellow club members use Maxxis ST tires and rave about them. The owner of the very good alignment shop I use raves about Maxxis. Whatever brand of tire you buy should be no more that a month or two old, well cared for after you put them on your trailer and should be an ST tire to give you the best service. Some will recommend Michelins but I do not believe Michelin will honor their warranty if the tire is used on a trailer.
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Old 09-15-2015, 09:19 AM   #7
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I had a Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL tire on our 25FB replaced under the road hazard warranty due to a screw in the outer radius of the tire where it could not be replaced. Discount Tire included their tire warranty on the five new Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL tires I installed on the 23D with the SenDel T03-56545T wheels. They were very aware of the vehicle they were being installed on. We ran 44 psi on the 25FB and also on the 23D.

Note that the Michelin LT225/75R16/E LTX M/S2 tires mounted on the SenDel T03-66655T wheels were Airstream factory installed on the Eddie Bauer models and are standard on the 2015 and later 31' Classics. This tire and wheel combination is on display in the entrance hallway of the factory service center and can be installed on any recent Airstream with 15" wheels.

Many folks with the single axle 20' Airstreams go to the Michelin LT225/75R16/E LTX M/S2 tire rated 2,680 pounds tires since the axle rating is 5,000 pounds along with the same GVW. The stock GYM ST225/75R15D tires are rated 2,540 pounds.

The stock GYM ST215/75R14C tires are rated 1,870 pounds @ 50 psi and are 26.7" in diameter. The Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL tires are sidewall rated 2,183 pounds @ 50 psi but must be derated to 1,985 pounds per 49 CFR 571.110 and they are 28.9" in diameter.
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Old 09-15-2015, 09:24 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by mountainaxe View Post
Does anyone have any experience with the Maxxis ST Radial M-8008 Radial Tire - 215/75R14 50R?
I used Maxxis 8008 15" tires on my Casita after one of my GYM started to fail. I liked them. I think they are one of the better ST tires.

For our AS 25 though in 2013 when we purchased it I went with the Michelin 15" tires as recommended by forum members

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Old 09-15-2015, 11:07 AM   #9
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Thanks for all your comments. It appears there is no good solution to this Airstream self created problem. Using the existing wheels means that I must retain the "C" rating...upgrading to a "D" rated tire could split existing rims due to increased tire pressure. Getting bigger wheels/tires causes a whole new set of problems. First, the brakes on my 23FB are 10" and designed for 14" wheels...increasing rim size changes breaking dynamics. Second, the wheel wells aren't really big enough for 15" rims without modification, which is not only a pain, but can be expensive.

One thing that no one at Airstream tells you when you purchase a 23FB is the wheel size. More importantly to the owner, the ST215/75R/14 has a maximum speed rating of 65 MPH...they don't mention this either. If you exceed that speed for any length of time (like with interstate driving), you will lose some control over the trailer and damage the tires due to buildup of excessive heat. I know as I had a series of catastrophic blowouts that totaled a 2003 Safari.

With all that said, I don't want to experiment with any "homebrew" modifications on my relatively new 23FB ($60 grand investment). Aside from it not being recommended by Airstream, I'm frankly not sure what new problems this professionally untested fix introduces into the mix. It might even make the trailer un-insurable. All I want is a reliable tire of the size recommended by Airstream. I can't understand why this is so hard...seems you have to be a rocket scientist to figure out what's what with the tire industry. My conclusion is that Airstream doesn't care about the safety of their trailers after they leave the lot. So...bottom line, at this moment, the best bet for me seems to be the Maxxis 8008 ST215/75R/14s.
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Old 09-16-2015, 01:06 PM   #10
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Note that on our 2015 23D International Serenity, we had to trim about three inches off of the leading edge of the curb side wheel well so it matched the street side wheel well. Sam and Fred on the factory assembly line obviously did not confer when cutting their respective openings. The wheel well trim strip fit properly after the trim job using tin snips. Since the Airstream trailing arm suspension moves both up and back when a bump is hit, there is more than adequate space in the wheel wells.

The photo shows that there is more than adequate wheel well clearance with the 15" Michelin tires installed.

The SenDel wheel specifications show that there are two top of the list configurations that will attach to the stock 14" brake drums - note the 5 lugs and 4.50" bolt circle. The top listing is for the 14" tires and the next one that we used is for 15" tires.

There was no way I was going to tow this new trailer over 2,000 miles from the dealership in New Jersey to the modification shop in Paradise, TX on the stock GYM ST215/75R14C tires with a rated capacity of 1,870 pounds @ 50 psi and a diameter of 26.7". Printed on the sidewall of the ST tires is the 65 mph speed limit.

The Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL tires are rated 2,183 pounds @ 50 psi but are derated to 1,985 pounds for trailer use per 49 CFR 571.110 and have a diameter of 28.9". There is no speed restriction printed on the tire. The rating is for over 100 mph which is far faster than any prudent driver would push a rig.

Upon closer inspection of the two tire diameters, one can see that the wheels are only about one inch bigger around if the 14" tire were laid on top of the 15" tire.

After reading more tire posts than I can remember on this forum, I avoid all "ST" tires like the bubonic plague. The brand does not materially matter, as the design is over 40 years old with no improvements and all have the 65 mph speed limit printed on the tire.

After crossing the scales enroute to Texas, I found that the trailer tires were supporting about 5,060 pounds. That is well under the 7.980 pound rating of the four 15" Michelin tires.
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Old 09-20-2015, 07:40 PM   #11
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My questions to those who've made the move to upsize the diameter of their wheels/wells from 14" to 15" on FC 23FBs: Has Airstream ever officially approved (in writing) of these modifications or are they experiments performed at your own risk...personally and financially...without generally accepted professional advice? Does your insurance company have any problems insuring your trailer after these modifications (if you've let them know) have been made?
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Old 09-21-2015, 05:52 AM   #12
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There is also Yokohama Y356
LT195 /75 R14 99 D1 BSW

You may want to search the forum for this tire since it has been referenced a few time

Both the Yokohama and kumho are light van tired and have higher speed rating than ST tired

Completely understand going to the Michelins since they make a good product.



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Old 09-21-2015, 08:34 AM   #13
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Changing tire size for safer tires on my Airstreams seems a lot more prudent than the oversized tires I see on the pickups raising the center of gravity many inches and reducing stability. I have never heard of a denied claim for these"monster" trucks with jacked up suspensions.

When we trimmed the right side wheel opening measurement to match the left side wheel opening measurement, we were correcting an error in construction just like when we turned the toilet at an angle to the wall per the factory literature so we could close the bathroom door when in the library.

The CAT scales reported the two 23D axles (each rated 3,000 pounds) were supporting 5,060 pounds. That works out to 1,265 pounds per wheel. The SenDel wheel is rated 2,150,pounds @ 60 psi. The Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL tires are sidewall rated 2,183 pounds @ 50 psi but must be derated to 1,985 pounds (per 49 CFR 571.110). That means that on average, there is a 720 pound load margin or over a 50% safety factor.

Here is the tire derating regulation:

49 CFR 571.110

Tire selection and rims and motor home/recreation vehicle trailer load carrying capacity information for motor vehicles with a GVWR of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) or less.


S4.2.2.1
Except as provided in S4.2.2.2, the sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle shall not be less than the GAWR of the axle system as specified on the vehicle's certification label required by 49 CFR part 567. If the certification label shows more than one GAWR for the axle system, the sum shall be not less than the GAWR corresponding to the size designation of the tires fitted to the axle.

S4.2.2.2
When passenger car tires are installed on an MPV, truck, bus, or trailer, each tire's load rating is reduced by dividing it by 1.10 before determining, under S4.2.2.1, the sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle.

S4.2.2.3
(a) For vehicles, except trailers with no designated seating positions, equipped with passenger car tires, the vehicle normal load on the tire shall be no greater than 94 percent of the derated load rating at the vehicle manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressure for that tire.
(b) For vehicles, except trailers with no designated seating positions, equipped with LT tires, the vehicle normal load on the tire shall be no greater than 94 percent of the load rating at the vehicle manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressure for that tire.

I have had "ST" tire failures on my motorcycle carrying trailers both stationary and when moving. I even had a totally covered spare tire delaminate on one trailer.

Insurance companies like it when the insured does things to minimize the risk for damage and, in my opinion, replacing the stock GYM ST215/75R14C tires with the Michelins nearly eliminates the possibility of tire failure. I have not experienced a Michelin tire failure in nearly 50 years of driving cars, pickup trunks or farm trucks scaling 66,000+ pounds.

Airstream's warranty system usually replaces a failed inferior product with the same inferior product (example is the plastic catches). From my personal experience, I am no longer interested in spending dollars to transport the trailer to a dealership, get a shoddy repair and have to spend lots of my time cleaning up the mess left inside the trailer. There is also the issue of the down time with the unit on their lot (subject to hanger rash) while they await parts and finally get the unit scheduled to do the work.

When I have an issue, I want the repair to make the situation better so it does not happen again, not be put back at the same situation that caused the issue to begin with.

The independent shop that does all the work on my trailers is also an Airstream factory authorized repair facility for warranty work. They specialize in the vintage units and have the experience of seeing what certain modifications have done to the Airstreams over time. Real world experience trumps "in theory" every time.

Look at the number of rivets in an older Airstream and compare that number to the new models. What does a single rivet cost? Fewer rivets means less labor, but also less strength for the long haul. The Airstream focus today is on how cheaply and fast can the units be built.
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Old 09-21-2015, 04:23 PM   #14
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Does anyone have any experience with the Maxxis ST Radial M-8008 Radial Tire - 215/75R14 50R?

I just put a set on our 23D last year. It's tough to find a bad review on their ST tires (unless someone just hates ST tires in general).
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