How long before replacing tires?

[Gringo]

We've got a 2011 27FB that still has the original tires on it. We live in it five months a year now, and haul it from Texas up to Colorado and back, and make a few trips. It spent it's first winter indoors, and this winter indoors, but was stored outside for two winters in between. So this is the fifth year we've owned it.

I like the idea of 16" wheels. We'll be picking the trailer up in Dallas in a month. Can anyone recommend a good 16" wheel and a dealer in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area?

Do you change the spare to a 16" too, even though it's never been in sunlight or on the ground flattened?

[m.hony]

I ordered my wheels from the Internet, bought the tires locally, and mounted and balanced myself.
I did not replace the spare. Some people do replace the spare.


Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums

[Gringo]

Is there a specific lug pattern to order for a trailer or are those all the same? I don't have access to the trailer, I'm still on our catamaran in a marina on the island of Providenciales, at the moment. Just checked into this forum in preparation for our trip to the US.

I think I'd rather buy them from a shop than on the internet. I don't have a permanent address in the US.

[crispyboy]

Originally Posted by FCStreamer

I don't think it is practical to remove the tires off the trailer. Not that I am not handy, but that kinda defeats the purpose.

Put the trailer on jack stands if it going to sit for more than a month and just cover the tires. This will also help the axles. My trailer gets this treatment from November thru April.

[SCOTTinNJ]

Originally Posted by crispyboy

Put the trailer on jack stands if it going to sit for more than a month and just cover the tires. This will also help the axles. My trailer gets this treatment from November thru April.

Where is the best place to support the trailer? Is it marked?

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by SCOTTinNJ

Where is the best place to support the trailer? Is it marked?

Just what I do....

Bob

[SCOTTinNJ]

Nice. I'd probably have to keep mine "neighborly." Maybe just use one stand I can hide behind the tires? Could even leave some weight on them...

[crispyboy]

I only use on stand per side.
Out near the ends of the axle, next the to backing plate of the brakes you will find a vertical piece of steel (axle bracket) - this is where to put the jack stand.
You can adjust them so that the tires just touch the ground.

[switz]

For the same SenDel T03-66655T wheel the factory installs on the Classic and Pendleton:

16" tires and wheels

size 16 x 6 - bolt circle 6/5.5” - off set +0 - center bore 4.25” load rating 3,580 @ 80 psi

and the tire is

Michelin LT225/75R16/E LTX M/S2 rated 2,680 pounds @ 80 psi 29.2" in diameter

Wheel Balancers

Centramatic "300-356 all A plates" for 16" rims or "200-221 Special" for 15” rims (both sizes are $199.00)

The 15" Michelins could also work on a 27 with the 7,600 GVW

Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL sidewall rated 2,183 pounds @ 50 psi but must be derated to 1,985 pounds for trailer use 28.9" in diameter

Original equipment tire

GYM ST225/75R15D rated 2,540 pounds @ 65 psi 28.3" in diameter

Note that the 16" tire is less than an inch larger in diameter so the trailer will sit about ½" higher off the ground.

Going from the stock 14" tires on our 23D to the 15" Michelins above was a 2.2" jump in diameter and raised the trailer 1.1" to the same elevation as our 25FB. We ended up putting the old Hensley Arrow from the 25FB on the 23D and are using the same tow vehicle, so all the hitch settings were spot on.

This link gives the SenDel wheel sizes and specifications:

http://www.sendelwheel.com/wheels/t03sm

We used the T03-56545T wheels on the 23D as we retained the 10" five lug brake drums. The T03-56655T works for 15" tires on the wide body trailers.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by SCOTTinNJ

Nice. I'd probably have to keep mine "neighborly." Maybe just use one stand I can hide behind the tires? Could even leave some weight on them...

My procedure has changed a bit since I had our pad extended. One stand between the tires, front raised slightly to drain the roof to the rear.

Bob

[Burnside Bob]

Originally Posted by FCStreamer

I have been reading a lot of posts and opinions about tires. No, I do not have 16" wheels with Michelins.

How long before I have to replace the tires?

Yes, I will inspect them and keep them properly inflated and all that. But with my use, I should expect to get at least 5 years out of them? Thoughts?

If you did have Michelins, replacement is suggested at 10 years regardless of appearance/condition. This rule of thumb is on page 18 of their guide, available at:

https://media.michelinman.com/conten...omise_Plan.pdf

I have not found a similar guide for GYM's.

The installed base of GYM's over Michelins is on the order of 10 to 1, so it is entirely reasonable that there are more failures reported for GYM's than Michelins. It would be nice to have hard statistical information about tire failure rate per mile by tire brand. So if anyone has that info, please post so we can make informed decisions about our tires.

[xrvr]

Good info, thanks.

[Rich W]

Originally Posted by Burnside Bob

If you did have Michelins, replacement is suggested at 10 years regardless of appearance/condition. This rule of thumb is on page 18 of their guide, available at:

https://media.michelinman.com/conten...omise_Plan.pdf

I have not found a similar guide for GYM's.

The installed base of GYM's over Michelins is on the order of 10 to 1, so it is entirely reasonable that there are more failures reported for GYM's than Michelins. It would be nice to have hard statistical information about tire failure rate per mile by tire brand. So if anyone has that info, please post so we can make informed decisions about our tires.

>The installed base of GYM's over Michelins is on the order of 10 to 1
Hi, may I ask where you found this information?

I found similar information for a maximum of 10 years, probably from the same source. I have contacted Goodyear a few times, trying to get information, but they are tight lipped about everything. I asked them if they could tell me what their ST tire market share was compared to other ST manufacturers and they said that was confidential information. I asked them if they were aware of the large number of complaints about their ST tire on RV and Airstream forums and their terse reply was that most failures are due to under inflation.

I searched their site for passenger, RV and ST tire information. While they provide some good information on caring for tires there is no set date for replacing them. I did find this statement:

Tire Replacement Guidelines
Goodyear does not state a specific replacement age for RV tires because there are many conditions that dictate a tire's life span. Some factors that influence how long a tire will last are:
· Usage per year - more frequent usage will result in longer life
· Vehicle storage practices (6 months loaded with little or no rotation is not good!)
Usage in warmer climates can also impact a tire's overall life due to greater extreme ozone exposure


I searched their corporate site for ST tire information but the link doesn't seem to work anymore. I put ST tires in the search and it shows boat trailer tires and regular tires, but clicking on them doesn't do anything; nice. I went to the RV tire link, then found a link for Marathon Tires and followed it. They sure make it tough to get any information on their ST tires. At the link all they offer is tire size and specifications, no maintenance or care guide, just nothing other than specs. I'm beginning to rethink my GYM position.

[switz]

The Good Year customer relations behavior does cause one to think a little.

But even John Deere does not stand behind their manure spreader, so perhaps that is the Good Year position. :roll eyes:

I have had the covered spare tire (that had never been on the ground) tread delaminate on a 13" GYM ST on my motorcycle trailer. I replaced all three GYM ST tires with 13" Michelin passenger car tires as loaded the trailer weighs less than 1,500 pounds even with a Gold Wing aboard. I also has GYM failures on my 10,000 pound rated tandem Harley Hauler back in the day.

The trailer manufactures are looking for the absolute cheapest tire that they can install. After all, their exposure to tire failure is only going down the assembly line. As soon as the trailer clears the assembly line door and is "released from production", the dealer's line of credit is charged for the trailer.

The dealers concern is that it makes it to their lot and stays inflated until the customer pulls it off their lot. From Jackson Center to the West Coast, the tires have to last under 3,000 miles and the hotshots have to carry spares.

The folks towing the modular housing units with five or six axles carry a lot of spares for the journey. Since they are one use tires, the cheapest is okay, but those are the same ones we got with our expensive Airstreams....

[Burnside Bob]

Originally Posted by richw46

>The installed base of GYM's over Michelins is on the order of 10 to 1
Hi, may I ask where you found this information?

A guess, based on observation. I've never seen an Airstream with Michelins. My local dealer, reputedly the largest in the US, does not floor units with Michelins.

Airstream would know what % of units ship with Michelins, but they don't share that info. The main corporate website does not show Michelin tires as a factory option although I have read elsewhere that Eddie Bauer editions come with Michelins and that Michelins can be ordered as an extra cost factory option on built to order units.

So that limits the installed Michelin base on Airstreams to some special orders, folks retrofitting on their own, and those folks with Eddie Bauer editions.

An excellent and eloquent discussion of why no one knows the whole story on tire failure appears towards the end of this Airstream Life article:

http://maze.airstreamlife.com/2015/0...ut-everything/

We just be mushrooms.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by Burnside Bob

If you did have Michelins, replacement is suggested at 10 years regardless of appearance/condition. This rule of thumb is on page 18 of their guide, available at:

https://media.michelinman.com/conten...omise_Plan.pdf

I have not found a similar guide for GYM's.

The installed base of GYM's over Michelins is on the order of 10 to 1, so it is entirely reasonable that there are more failures reported for GYM's than Michelins. It would be nice to have hard statistical information about tire failure rate per mile by tire brand. So if anyone has that info, please post so we can make informed decisions about our tires.

Here is my very unscientific but long term practical experience over the last 55 years of owning Cars and Trucks. I have been running Michelin tires on all my vehicles for many years. I have never had one blow on me or have thread separation. I also ran other brands in earlier years.
The Good Year Marathon tire is the only new tire I ever had a blow out due to thread separation. In my mind a good way to avoid a repeat is never to own a Good Year Tire.

[Rich W]

Originally Posted by Burnside Bob

A guess, based on observation. I've never seen an Airstream with Michelins. My local dealer, reputedly the largest in the US, does not floor units with Michelins.

Airstream would know what % of units ship with Michelins, but they don't share that info. The main corporate website does not show Michelin tires as a factory option although I have read elsewhere that Eddie Bauer editions come with Michelins and that Michelins can be ordered as an extra cost factory option on built to order units.

So that limits the installed Michelin base on Airstreams to some special orders, folks retrofitting on their own, and those folks with Eddie Bauer editions.

An excellent and eloquent discussion of why no one knows the whole story on tire failure appears towards the end of this Airstream Life article:

http://maze.airstreamlife.com/2015/0...ut-everything/

We just be mushrooms.

I agree, mushrooms. I read the article you suggested and found it most enjoyable, an excellent point of view, thanks for the link. In the end, the best tidbit in his article is, we don't have all the information, all the statistics or any statistically valid survey results.

Yesterday I read one at the Tireman9 blog about correlation and causation, also very interesting. http://www.rvtiresafety.com/2015/04/...es-may-be.html [which contains a link to an even better article: https://www.khanacademy.org/math/pro...-and-causality ]

My approach has always been to go home with the one that brought me to the dance. As long as I continue to have good service/quality with a purchased product I will be loyal to it. When that service/quality fails... I do comparative shopping to find a new one.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by richw46

I agree, mushrooms. I read the article you suggested and found it most enjoyable, an excellent point of view, thanks for the link. In the end, the best tidbit in his article is, we don't have all the information, all the statistics or any statistically valid survey results.

Yesterday I read one at the Tireman9 blog about correlation and causation, also very interesting. http://www.rvtiresafety.com/2015/04/...es-may-be.html [which contains a link to an even better article: https://www.khanacademy.org/math/pro...-and-causality ]

My approach has always been to go home with the one that brought me to the dance. As long as I continue to have good service/quality with a purchased product I will be loyal to it. When that service/quality fails... I do comparative shopping to find a new one.

My advise to anyone purchasing a new or used Airstream from a dealer is that they agree to swap the GYM with Michelins as part of the deal. Why buy a new unit and subject yourself to all the hassle a GYM tire failure could cause.
The arrogance of Airstream management regarding these tire issues is deeply disturbing. For what we pay for these units not only should we get the best possible tires on the market they should come on gold plated rims.

[switz]

Starting in 2015, the Classics come standard with the 16" SenDel T03-66555T wheels and 16" Michelin LT225/75R16/E LTX M/S2 tires. They are also standard on the Pendleton.

They are shown for sale at the front door of the Airstream customer service center and can be installed on any recent wide body Airstream.

So, yes Airstream knows all about Michelin tire as they were available on the Eddie Bauer models for years.

But the Michelin tires cost more, even in volume, so their incentive is for the cheapest tire to get the trailer down the assembly line and out the door. As soon as the trailer is "released from production", the dealer's line of credit is charged and the trailer is owned by the dealer.

I have yet to hear of a GYM blow out on the assembly line.

But the Hotshotters that tow the Airstreams to the dealer carry GYM spares for a reason. They routinely exceed the 65mph side wall speed restriction on the GYM tires because time is money. I knew exactly when the Classic left Jackson Center and was at the dealership 10 minutes after it arrived as I knew the expected arrival time. Having driven that route several times in my Mercedes at the posted +5 mph, they were even quicker with our Classic. Fortunately it was winter and plenty cold so as far as the tires were concerned there was a lower heat build up.

[SteveSueMac]

Now that's an interesting point, Switz. If I'm not mistaken, the tire engineers here stress that the GYMs (or any ST) should NEVER be driven above 65mph and any time spent over that limit will damage the tire to some extent. If that's true, then a buyer on a coast who had his trailer jockeyed in from Ohio over 65mph might experience premature failure on the GYMs even if s/he is vigilant in proper inflation and speed!