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Old 05-15-2016, 12:11 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Burnside Bob View Post
A guess, based on observation. I've never seen an Airstream with Michelins. My local dealer, reputedly the largest in the US, does not floor units with Michelins.

Airstream would know what % of units ship with Michelins, but they don't share that info. The main corporate website does not show Michelin tires as a factory option although I have read elsewhere that Eddie Bauer editions come with Michelins and that Michelins can be ordered as an extra cost factory option on built to order units.

So that limits the installed Michelin base on Airstreams to some special orders, folks retrofitting on their own, and those folks with Eddie Bauer editions.

An excellent and eloquent discussion of why no one knows the whole story on tire failure appears towards the end of this Airstream Life article:

http://maze.airstreamlife.com/2015/0...ut-everything/

We just be mushrooms.
I agree, mushrooms. I read the article you suggested and found it most enjoyable, an excellent point of view, thanks for the link. In the end, the best tidbit in his article is, we don't have all the information, all the statistics or any statistically valid survey results.

Yesterday I read one at the Tireman9 blog about correlation and causation, also very interesting. http://www.rvtiresafety.com/2015/04/...es-may-be.html [which contains a link to an even better article: https://www.khanacademy.org/math/pro...-and-causality ]

My approach has always been to go home with the one that brought me to the dance. As long as I continue to have good service/quality with a purchased product I will be loyal to it. When that service/quality fails... I do comparative shopping to find a new one.
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Old 05-16-2016, 09:44 AM   #58
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I agree, mushrooms. I read the article you suggested and found it most enjoyable, an excellent point of view, thanks for the link. In the end, the best tidbit in his article is, we don't have all the information, all the statistics or any statistically valid survey results.

Yesterday I read one at the Tireman9 blog about correlation and causation, also very interesting. http://www.rvtiresafety.com/2015/04/...es-may-be.html [which contains a link to an even better article: https://www.khanacademy.org/math/pro...-and-causality ]

My approach has always been to go home with the one that brought me to the dance. As long as I continue to have good service/quality with a purchased product I will be loyal to it. When that service/quality fails... I do comparative shopping to find a new one.

My advise to anyone purchasing a new or used Airstream from a dealer is that they agree to swap the GYM with Michelins as part of the deal. Why buy a new unit and subject yourself to all the hassle a GYM tire failure could cause.
The arrogance of Airstream management regarding these tire issues is deeply disturbing. For what we pay for these units not only should we get the best possible tires on the market they should come on gold plated rims.
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Old 05-16-2016, 10:01 AM   #59
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Starting in 2015, the Classics come standard with the 16" SenDel T03-66555T wheels and 16" Michelin LT225/75R16/E LTX M/S2 tires. They are also standard on the Pendleton.

They are shown for sale at the front door of the Airstream customer service center and can be installed on any recent wide body Airstream.

So, yes Airstream knows all about Michelin tire as they were available on the Eddie Bauer models for years.

But the Michelin tires cost more, even in volume, so their incentive is for the cheapest tire to get the trailer down the assembly line and out the door. As soon as the trailer is "released from production", the dealer's line of credit is charged and the trailer is owned by the dealer.

I have yet to hear of a GYM blow out on the assembly line.

But the Hotshotters that tow the Airstreams to the dealer carry GYM spares for a reason. They routinely exceed the 65mph side wall speed restriction on the GYM tires because time is money. I knew exactly when the Classic left Jackson Center and was at the dealership 10 minutes after it arrived as I knew the expected arrival time. Having driven that route several times in my Mercedes at the posted +5 mph, they were even quicker with our Classic. Fortunately it was winter and plenty cold so as far as the tires were concerned there was a lower heat build up.
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Old 05-16-2016, 11:31 AM   #60
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Now that's an interesting point, Switz. If I'm not mistaken, the tire engineers here stress that the GYMs (or any ST) should NEVER be driven above 65mph and any time spent over that limit will damage the tire to some extent. If that's true, then a buyer on a coast who had his trailer jockeyed in from Ohio over 65mph might experience premature failure on the GYMs even if s/he is vigilant in proper inflation and speed!
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Old 05-16-2016, 09:00 PM   #61
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.... and being two years old I am assuming the tires have some life left. I don't know exactly how much the previous owner used the trailer, but it looks like not much. And I will be keeping it parked in an RV lot 49 weeks out of the year. Sooo....

How long before I have to replace the tires?

Yes, I will inspect them and keep them properly inflated and all that. But with my use, I should expect to get at least 5 years out of them? Thoughts?
Although you may observe deteriorated tire condition which can move you to take a tire out of service, you cannot okay ST tires for service by visual inspection. They "age out" in 3-5 years. The clock starts ticking when they are manufactured, so learn how to read the manufacture date.
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Old 05-17-2016, 09:42 AM   #62
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When our 2014 Classic came down the line in January 0f 2014, they installed GYM tires that were about five months old. So one is wise to examine the GYM tires before purchase if the unit had sat on the dealer lot for a long time. One should press for new tires as part of the deal if the trailer sat there over a year.

With the Classic, I did not care as I immediately took them off for the 16" Michelins as soon as I got the unit too the storage shed. The Michelin tire swap for the 23D was done before I even left the dealer location as I brought them mounted from Arizona.
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Old 05-17-2016, 11:58 AM   #63
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My advise to anyone purchasing a new or used Airstream from a dealer is that they agree to swap the GYM with Michelins as part of the deal. Why buy a new unit and subject yourself to all the hassle a GYM tire failure could cause.
The arrogance of Airstream management regarding these tire issues is deeply disturbing. For what we pay for these units not only should we get the best possible tires on the market they should come on gold plated rims.
Why do you think the Michelins are better than the GYMs? I cannot find any information on the number of Michelin LT tires used on trailers compared to the number of GYMs (or any ST tire) with statistics for blowouts, longevity or anything else. I agree that the Michelins have a higher speed rating but since I don't go past 70, usually at 65, extra speed rating is not a benefit for me. (It used to be on the Goodyear site, that if you overinflate by 10 lbs. you can go up to 70. This reduces the amount of heat buildup. I cannot find this statement anymore.)

My point is that I haven't found anything beyond anecdotal information to confirm that Michelins are better than GYMs on trailers. I'd like to see some empirical data but it just doesn't exist. I can't even find the percentage of Michelins installed on trailers vs. installed on trucks or cars. I've tried, found some interesting information, but the tire industry is very protective of their data.
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Old 05-17-2016, 12:24 PM   #64
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My anecdotal evidence was real life experience for me.
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Old 05-17-2016, 02:15 PM   #65
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Believe it was Tireman9 who posted that you can see belt separation by free rotation of the tire and measuring the variance in diameter and tread position by checking radial and axial run out. So it is possible to visually observe the degradation at least once a belt moves. I did not get the idea that this approach would find all belt failures and my thought was that it would be difficult to check often enough to insure that no in service tire failures would occur.

Have had good luck for the last couple of months with the GYMs. They seem to be doing quite well now. The key to their long life is to keep them inflated properly and rotate them every month or two from the top to the bottom of the stack. Pat
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Old 05-17-2016, 02:48 PM   #66
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I kept the Goodyear Marathons inflated, but only rotated them once per year.
Surely these tires don't actually require monthly or bi-monthly rotation.
I can understand rotating maybe every 5,000-10,000 miles.
Yet another reason I'm glad they're gone and some LT truck tires are in their place.
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Old 05-17-2016, 03:41 PM   #67
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[QUOTE=richw46;1792576
My point is that I haven't found anything beyond anecdotal information to confirm that Michelins are better than GYMs on trailers. I'd like to see some empirical data but it just doesn't exist. I can't even find the percentage of Michelins installed on trailers vs. installed on trucks or cars. I've tried, found some interesting information, but the tire industry is very protective of their data. [/QUOTE]

I can't speak for anyone else on this forum. A key point for me is in the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards on tires. These standards specify tests that tires have to pass, things like "run on a roller at x% of rated load for y amount of time at a temperature of z". Standard 139 sets the requirements for LT and passenger car tires. Standard 109 is applies to ST tires. Standard 109 is significantly weaker. Meaning for an ST tire and and LT tire with the same weight rating written on the sidewall, the LT more likely run without failing.
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Old 05-17-2016, 03:54 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by richw46 View Post
It used to be on the Goodyear site, that if you overinflate by 10 lbs. you can go up to 70. This reduces the amount of heat buildup. I cannot find this statement anymore.
Here you go:

https://www.tirerack.com/images/tire...plications.pdf
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Old 05-17-2016, 03:57 PM   #69
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My anecdotal evidence was real life experience for me.
Exactly, anecdotal. It is just your personal experience. Even combined with all the experiences of the members here, it's still only anecdotal. There's no basis on which any conclusions can be drawn because there's not enough evidence. There's no statistical analysis. That's all I'm saying. You've had a bad experience, others may have had a good experience. Nothing scientific

In other words.... your mileage may vary
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Old 05-17-2016, 04:05 PM   #70
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MH - rotation from the bottom of the stack to the top is quite easy once you get the hang of it. Does not even require a torque wrench or a jack. Just be sure to keep them properly inflated for the load. Not having any problem exceeding 65mph with them either.

My AS tech told me he used to test Michelins. Testing, what a concept! Pat
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