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switz · 12-11-2013, 07:33 AM

Perhaps the reason the conversation centers on the Michelin tires relates to the fact that Airstream installs this specific Michelin tire (Michelin part number 05681 or Michelin LT 225/75R16E LTX M/S2) on SenDel T03-66655T wheels on their Eddie Bauer model trailers. Every other trailer Airstream makes gets the 15" Good Year Marathons which seems to have a checkered reliability from reading the forums in the trailer industry.

I have been a Michelin tire user for over 48 years and have never had a blowout. The Michelin do NOT have the 65mph speed limit printed on the sidewall like the GYM tires.

I selected the 15" Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL tires for my 25FB as there was plenty of load capacity remaining as a safety margin in that application. My model 30 Classic tiptoes across the scales at 10,000 pounds which requires a Load E 16" tire as no Load E 15" are available from Michelin.

Perhaps the more important issue concerns the Airstream two year warranty. If I use exactly the same tires and wheels Airstream uses, then there can be no argument about tires causing damage to the suspension or the trailer.

The factory sticker requires 65psi on the GYM tires and 80 psi on the Michelin tires. There seems to be little discussion about tire pressure setting on the GYM tire, but lots of discussion on the Michelin tire pressure settings.

I am installing the Dill TPMS 1503-453 system when the Michelin tires are mounted to the wheels as an additional source of tire operational performance information to help with safety.

I am installing the spare tire on a SenDel S62-66655G galvanized steel wheel with a 3,500 pound rating and keeping the fifth aluminum wheel in the box as a battle spare.

There are tire experts on this forum that suggest that a four year life is appropriate for trailer tires regardless of the mileage. Since I am based in Phoenix, heat will be the challenge and I think tire swap outs at four years is cheaper than insurance deductibles and degradation in the value of the trailer due to repairs.

I consider tires as an expense, not a capital improvement. If I have to worry about the operational costs of the trailer, perhaps I should not have acquired the trailer in the first place. This is a very expensive "hobby" or "leisure" activity.

polarlyse · 12-11-2013, 07:34 AM

The choices are limited I believe but they are out there. Carefully check the load ratings and if they give you the safety margins for your 25' trailer they would be a great choice. For the 30'er I think that you will find the load ratings to be very close with little margins and for that heavier trailer you might need to look to the 16" where you have a greater carrying capacity with some safety margin. Do some homework and see what's available to you. I just went 16" on my 30'er and am comfortable with them.

Moflash · 12-11-2013, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ganaraska

You can expect anything you want but I can virtually guarantee that within 5 years your tires will show sidewall cracking and at least one will be losing air.

5 years is a tires maximum lifespan.Any brand.After that you are on your own.The rubber brakes down and dry rot is not usually visable to the naked eye.Those tiny micro cracks on the sidewall are visible after a year on most tires.They have no effect on the tires performance or durability for the first 5 years.

m.hony · 12-11-2013, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

I believe it depends on the load rating you need for your particular trailer GVW.

There was not a 15" LT tire that had enough capacity to use on our Classic 30 with GVW=10,000#. So I went with the 16" wheels to get the capacity I needed.

Mind you, I only looked at the Michelins, perhaps someone else makes one?

Brian.

So- I have a Classic 30 with 15" wheels, actual weight on trailer axles 7,440#, 10,000# GVW- they made it at the factory and sold it with inadequate tires/wheels? Could that ever come around to bite 'em? Hmmm...

m.hony · 12-11-2013, 11:48 AM

I selected the 15" Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL tires for my 25FB as there was plenty of load capacity remaining as a safety margin in that application. My model 30 Classic tiptoes across the scales at 10,000 pounds which requires a Load E 16" tire as no Load E 15" are available from Michelin.

Why so heavy? My trailer has 7,440# on the trailer axles while hitched up...

switz · 12-11-2013, 12:17 PM

Empty factory literature weight for our 2014 Classic model 30 is around 7,365 pounds without options or 54 gallons of water or our camping stuff. Based upon our experience with the 25FB, I expect the camping ready Classic 30 to weigh from 8,500 to 9,000 pounds due to the extra A/C option and an extensive solar system with at least four 100 pound batteries.

Thus the requirement for the greater carrying capacity of the 16" tires and wheels. Four GYM tires are rated 10,160 pounds capacity. The trailer has two 5,000 pound rated axles. I prefer Michelins.

PhilipKS · 12-11-2013, 12:32 PM

So 6 (Triple Axle) of the Michelin LTX (p) 235/75/R15 are adequate for my 34' with a GVWR of 9900#, while not adequate for a 31' Double Axle of the same weight? Just trying to clear the fuzzy from my head...

Wingeezer · 12-11-2013, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m.hony

So- I have a Classic 30 with 15" wheels, actual weight on trailer axles 7,440#, 10,000# GVW- they made it at the factory and sold it with inadequate tires/wheels? Could that ever come around to bite 'em? Hmmm...

Not sure exactly what you mean. I would guess that your tires - if Marathons - are rated for the load (but only just) and the wheels should also be so-rated.

Do you know that not to be the case?

I had a strange situation with my 2005 Classic 30 that I bought used a few years ago. (about 2 years old when I bought it if I recall)

Sometime during the 2005 production year, Airsteam upped the axle rating they were using. The earlier models that year (mine included) had a GVW of something like 8700 pounds, and at some point that year, AS then went with 5000# axles on the same size trailer and raised the GVW to 10,000#.

I didn't know anything about this when I bought our trailer "used."

But one day when I was under the trailer, I noticed the number "5000" in yellow marking paint on the axle bodies. I tried to find axle serial numbers but could not.

When next at Jackson Center I asked if they would confirm what axles I had, and they said that indeed they were 5000# axles. They prepared a new spec sticker for our trailer.

However …….. I then found out that my Alcoa wheels that I believe initially came with the trailer when new were rated 2200# (i.e. total of just 8800!)

I don't know if Airstream had screwed up when first releasing the trailer since they made the change during the production year, or if maybe the previous owner had afterwards fitted the heavier axles fitted but not bothered about checking the wheels.

Airstream could not assist me in sorting this out.

Anyway, I now have the Michelin LT tires with reserve load capacity, and new wheels that are rated at 3200# each so hopefully all will be well!

Brian.

m.hony · 12-11-2013, 12:51 PM

I am speaking hypothetically.
I can't understand why people think they need 16" wheels and tires.
Why do people think the factory supplied 15" wheels and tires are not good enough.
I understand the bad rep Goodyear Marathons have.
I know from personal experience that Carlisle trailer tires are no good.
I also know that Michelins are expensive and have a long tread life, which is a moot point because I will never put enough miles on them before they dry rot to justify the price.
I just can't get anyone to explain to me in a way I can understand why the factory supplied tires and wheels are inadequate or why I should want or need 16" wheels.
I think I should be able to buy 15" tires that are better than Good Year Marathons or Carlisle trailer tires, but are less expensive than. Michelins.
I think sometimes people go overboard with bigger is better (trucks, wheels, horsepower, torque) and others jump on the band wagon.

m.hony · 12-11-2013, 12:52 PM

...a total of 8800#...
When hitched there is only 7400# on my trailer axles...

switz · 12-11-2013, 12:57 PM

Six times 1985 pounds derated capacity of 15" Michelins is 11,910 pounds while four have 7,940 pounds capacity. My empty weight is 7,365 pounds before second A/C and 50 amp service or over 400 pounds in batteries alone for the aftermarket solar system. We have yet to add 54 gallons of water, the 15" tires are under capacity for two axles and 10,000 pounds GVW.

m.hony · 12-11-2013, 01:15 PM

I know the GVW is 10,000#- I will never have that much on it. The scale ticket is the weight fully loaded with propane, groceries, clothes, firewood- everything- ready to camp- even a bunch of extra stuff for an auction-
7,940 actual capacity
7,440 actual weight- cases of soft drinks, water, enough clothes to stay gone a month-
normal trips I weigh less- the extra stuff for the auction-
I see lots of Airstreams in campgrounds with the original 15' wheels. Those owners have never considered putting 16" wheels on their trailers.

SteveSueMac · 12-11-2013, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m.hony

So- I have a Classic 30 with 15" wheels, actual weight on trailer axles 7,440#, 10,000# GVW- they made it at the factory and sold it with inadequate tires/wheels? Could that ever come around to bite 'em? Hmmm...

You probably have GYMs ST225 which have a higher load capacity (2540/ea., 15,240 for all 6) and can handle the trailer weight.

m.hony · 12-11-2013, 01:20 PM

Maybe everyone doesn't need 16" wheels and tires- Maybe I don't-
Maybe people who boondock need 16" wheels because they have more batteries, solar, onboard water? Maybe they are more likely to approach the 10,000# GVW? I never will.
My trailer is probably 7,500# on the tires while parked because some of the weight is on the tongue, just like when hitched to the truck- only difference is whatever weight is transferred to the front axle of the truck when hitched-
Also, the 65 limit on the sidewall doesn't bother me as I won't be exceeding that anyway.

m.hony · 12-11-2013, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

You probably have GYMs ST225 which have a higher load capacity (2540/ea., 15,240 for all 6) and can handle the trailer weight.

I have a 2 axle trailer, but 2,540 x 4 is 10,160#- trailer GVW is 10,000#-
What's the problem? Why should I want to switch to 16" wheels and tires?
I just don't get it.

SteveSueMac · 12-11-2013, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilipKS

So 6 (Triple Axle) of the Michelin LTX (p) 235/75/R15 are adequate for my 34' with a GVWR of 9900#, while not adequate for a 31' Double Axle of the same weight? Just trying to clear the fuzzy from my head...

9900/6=1650 - so long as the derated value of the tire exceeds 1650, you should be fine. If both trailers have a GVWR of 9900, in theory, both tri-axle trailers should be fine with the p Michelin which is sidewall stamped at 2183 and derated handles 1984 per tire. I though most tri-axle folks who make the switch go with 16s. Are there very different weights??

mstephens · 12-11-2013, 01:31 PM

People keep tires on a trailer longer than five years? Really? I never would have imagined that. I bought the Michelin 15" LTX MS/2 about a year ago. We have a lot of miles on them already - maybe 10,000. They look brand new still. But, when five years old, I will swap them for a new set no matter what they look like. I thought most people did the same. How long are people running the same tires? I know there was the one guy the other day who reported tires from 1992, but I assume that is rare.

SteveSueMac · 12-11-2013, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m.hony

I have a 2 axle trailer, but 2,540 x 4 is 10,160#- trailer GVW is 10,000#-
What's the problem? Why should I want to switch to 16" wheels and tires?
I just don't get it.

There may not be a problem.

I won't lie - the talk in this forum and others about the perceived GYM problems scared the heck out of me. I had no problems with them and switched to the 15" Michelins more out of psychological stress than any direct evidence of bad tires.

You may be fine as is and if you're happy - many others seem to be too so hit the road, watch and feel for damage, keep them at 65 psi, stay under 65mph and enjoy yourself!

Even if you wanted to change to Michelins, you said fully loaded for camping you're at 7400 I believe, yes? 16s wouldn't be necessary. You'd be close with the 15s at 7936 (1984x4) but the derated 15s would do the job. My 27fb fully loaded for camping is 5880 so I'm very comfortable with the 15s.

Foiled Again · 12-11-2013, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m.hony

...a total of 8800#...
When hitched there is only 7400# on my trailer axles...

Not to be a putz... but how much of the time are you hitched vs. parked. If you're PARKED and the tires are overloaded doesn't the overload count?

We all know that the stabilizer jacks aren't meant to be load bearing... How much weight rests on the four tires? Does the jack carry as much tongue weight as the hitch receiver does?

Inquiring minds want to know.

MICHELIN 16 inch conversion - I converted to 16 inch rims on Airstream #2 about 2 years ago. If I had it to do over I'd price them from the FACTORY before going through ordering them separately and paying someone to mount them. Not sure the same situation applies now, but when I did it, I could have saved big bucks (hard to believe but true) by ordering them from Airstream in Jackson Center.

Bill M. · 12-11-2013, 01:44 PM

No, you do need 16" wheels. You can run the GYM trailer tires rated at about 2500 lbs per tire. However you can not get a 15" LT or P tire with anything close to that rated capacity. The switch to 16" wheels is usually in an effort to get different tires than the ST tires from the various makers. The trailer I pull the most is lightweight and I run the 15" Michelin XL tires on it. I am several thousand pounds under the max load. My other trailer is a 32' that I do not pull much. I currently have 4 year old GYM's on it. Not sure what I am going to do to replace them. Probably just another set and hope and worry for the few hundred miles a year I log on it. I have seen a 32' with the 15" Michelins on it and they were doing just fine.