Help for a vibration problem

[georgezink]

I recently installed a new complete henschen axle, w/drum brakes (3500#) on my '77 six metre Minuet, along with new aluminum wheels rated to 2810# ea and new Cooper ST225-75R15 load range D, rated to 112mph. The tires & wheels were balanced at a local tire store. The lug nuts are tightened to 100 ft lb and tire pressure is set to 50 lb. I also installed a new Equil-i-zer hitch with the lightest bars (600lb) and it has been properly set and adjusted (I think). The trailer now rides a good 4 to 5 in higher and everything rides level. I'm towing with a Honda Pilot, which is more than enough for this lightweight trailer.

Unfortunately I have a vibration at speeds above 50 mph which I didn't have before with the brokendown old axle, worn out passenger car tires and the lousy old hitch set up without sway control. It was as smooth as silk up to 75 mph, though I'm sure was quite unsafe.

Andy always suggests balancing the running gear, including the hubs & drums as a unit, but finding anyone around here (metro Atlanta) that can do it is a problem.
Does anyone have experience with "Dyna Beads" and any other suggestions for me.

Thanks, Geo...

[Goin camping]

I think you need to balance your drums too.

There is a process described on Inland RV's website.

[uwe]

Originally Posted by georgezink

I recently installed a new complete henschen axil, w/drub brakes (3500#) on my '77 six metre Minuet, along with new aluminum wheels rated to 2810# ea and new Cooper ST225-75R15 load range D, rated to 112mph. The tires & wheels were balance at a local tire store. The lug nuts are tightened to 100 ft lb and tire pressure is set to 50 lb. I also installed a new Equil-i-zer hitch with the lightest bars (600lb) and it has been properly set and adjusted (I think). The trailer now rides a good 4 to 5 in higher and everything rides level. I'm towing with a Honda Pilot, which is more that enough for this lightweight trailer.

Unfortunately I have a vibration at speeds above 50 mph which I didn't have before with the brokendown old axil, passenger car tires and the lousy old hitch set up without sway control. It was as smooth as silk up to 75 mph, though I'm sure was quite unsafe.

Andy always suggests balancing the running gear, including the hubs & drums as a unit, but finding anyone around here (metro Atlanta) that can do it is a problem.
Does anyone have experience with "Dyna Beads" and any other succestion for me.

Thanks, Geo...

How bad is the vibration? If you can feel it in the tryck while towing, then it must be pretty severe.
I would suggest to jack up one side of the trailer at a time, so the wheel is barely off the ground, and slowly rotate it and do a visual inspection first.
Check bearing adjustment, and make sure that the brake isn't too tight. See if the wheel has a tendency to rotate by itself to a stop, or if it stays where you put it. This might require loosening the bearing slightly if it's adjusted too tightly. I have had brake hub imbalance so severe before, that the wheel would act like a pendulum, always rotating to the same position.
From the sound of it, though, something might not be hub-centric with your setup. Check the tires also, make sure there are no out of round areas.
Even with out of balance hubs, I have never heard of anyone feeling teh vibration in the truck while towing. I am not an alarmist by any stretch, but this would require immediate investigation if it was my rig.

[thecatsandi]

Try rotating your tires 180 degrees on the axles one at a time. that way when it changes you will know which one is the problem child.

[uwe]

Originally Posted by thecatsandi

Try rotating your tires 180 degrees on the axles one at a time. that way when it changes you will know which one is the problem child.

How that?

[thecatsandi]

Originally Posted by uwe

How that?

If the combination of the tires which maybe balanced or not completely may be causing a bigger problem than the one piece along. Rotating the tire changes the relationship of the running gear and the tire. THe changes the overall balance of the setup. A bad tire can cause a vibration as well. even new ones.

[Gunnyusmc]

I would put Centramatic's on both trailer and tow vehicle. Never need balanceing again.
I went thru this with my Argosy and the final solution was the ball socket was worn out and I had it replaced. Be sure the welder know's what he is doing. No more vibration.

Gunny

[uwe]

Originally Posted by thecatsandi

If the combination of the tires which maybe balanced or not completely may be causing a bigger problem than the one piece along. Rotating the tire changes the relationship of the running gear and the tire. THe changes the overall balance of the setup. A bad tire can cause a vibration as well. even new ones.

Ahhh, you mean taking the wheels off the wheel studs and remounting 180...that makes sense. Although, the author claims that the tires/wheels were balanced.

[georgezink]

Thanks for the suggestions.

Vibration is not bad, but annoying.

I'm trying to find a place that can balance the drums.

I'll check the bearing and brake adjustment as you suggest and will look for out of balance/ out of round.

I'll try rotating as well -- couldn't hurt.

Centramatic sounds good but is too expensive.
Has anyone heard of, or had experience with, "Dyna Beads"?

The ball is new and the old ball & socket worked fine just prior to this.

I think I'll first try to have the tires/wheels balanced at a different shop to see if that makes a difference.

[HiHoAgRV]

I had the same problem with a utility trailer. The tire dealer seemed to think balancing a tire for a trailer was not as critical as a passenger vehicle so he was at best, close. It was still far enough off to shake my truck.

[georgezink]

Getting a complete balance around here is out of the question. I spent most of the day on the phone, to no avail. I know how it should be done, per Andy's website (I bought the axle from him), but I can't find anyone here that can do it. I'll try a good spin balance and hope that helps.

Still would like to hear from someone with experience on "Dyna Beads".

By the way, replacing the axle was a snap. Did it by myself. A bit heavy, but a lever and a fulcrum, brute strength and awkwardness held it in place while I threw the bolts home. No welding, no adjustment -- fit like a glove.

[Fyrzowt]

Member "Li Pets" and others have used Dyna Beads, here is just one of the threads that I found when I did a search. Try it, you'll find many more.
Dave

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...ate-32907.html

[jimmickle]

For less than $100, you can get a static, bubble balancer, at places like J.C.Whitney Automobile, Truck & Motorcycle: Parts & Accessories or Harbor Freight Harbor Freight Tools that should allow you to balance the drums and wheels. Static balance is more than adequate.

[Ganglin]

Why not try having the tires lug centric balanced - it's more precise - at least from what I've read. It's either discount tire or tire discounters that is able to offer that. May be a relatively inexpensive first effort.

[Beginner]

Try machine shops that specialize in balancing.
You have to balance large electric motor armatures, pump impellers and boat props.
Surely you can find someone that can balance a lump of cast iron, or has all the industry left this country.
If you find someone take it to 1000 rpms.
Please keep us posted on those tires.
Beginner

[georgezink]

I'm hopeful about the tires. They are Cooper Custom Trailer Plus. It's an ST tire and the only one I've found that is speed rated. Apparently most (or perhaps all other) ST tires are only rated to 65mph. These are rated to 112mph -- not that I'll ever go that fast.

I'd read so much concern about the Marathon, that I was looking for an alternative. Was unable to get the Cooper's at any local store (don't know why, since most places could get me passenger Coopers), but ordered them on line with no problem - arrived in a few days. $127 each, but hopefully worth it.

[Beginner]

georgezink
I would have gone with the Cooper Custom Trailer Plus, but I couldn't get them locally either (Norfolk Virginia). I bought 16 inch rims and 16 inch light truck tires instead with a speed rating of 99 MPH. The BF Goodrich Commercial T/As (LT225/75R16 Load Range D) are more available on the road. Coopers marketing structure is the problem.
Your right about the only ST tire rated faster than 65MPH.
In My Honest Opinion you will have no problems with those tires. Let me know about the machine shops/electric shops and the balancing thing.
Beginner

[wingfoot321]

Georgezink,

Sorry this thing is out of order.

(2) I would then take the tires & wheels back and explain your problem to the shop that mounted them. Have them rebalanced and stay with them while they do the job. See how much weight is put on each wheel. If the weights are large, 2-3 inches long, ask them to put two or four staggered on inside & outside. You could ask them to rotate the tire 180 degrees if weights are large. Also, ask the owner if the operator knows what he is doing, Experienced! Get his best person. Offer to pay something. Be the good old boy. Most shops don't know how to balance a tire except fast. If you are polite & explain your problem & you get any resistance, your are in the wrong shop!!!!

My Toyota dealer has their own balance machine to resolve customer complaints. They get stuck in between the customer and the tire company on ride complaints.

When I bought trailer tires last year, I went to 3 dealers before I found one that would promise me an adjustment if I had uniformity problems (balance or radial / lateral force problems).

(1) Remove tire & wheel & get a can of penetrating oil with the long spray extensions and make your own dial indicator. Rotate the hub and move the spray extension up to the hub. Keep turning hub & adjusting spray can until you can see how much variation is in the hub. I would not expect more than 1/32 inch. Check bearing adjustment for any play before.

(3) With tire & wheel mounted on the hub, check the centerline runout with the spray can. If it is 1/8 inch on the centerline of the tire, they will not
balance. Send the tires back assuming the hubs & alloy wheels are ok.

[HiHoAgRV]

As a last ditch effort and just for kicks, see if the tire shops machine will hold the tire/rim with the hub still bolted on . You would have to assure the same tire bolted to the same hub in the same orientation, but the assembly would be balanced.

[georgezink]

Just wanted to wrap up this thread.

I found that one wheel bearing was a little loose, so snugged it up. Checked the drums, wheels & tires and all were nearly perfectly round -- no high or low spots.

Seems to ride better now, but I'll still get another good spin balance before the next trip and I'll check the ball & socket for wear. Right now I'm redoing the interior. Just ordered new converter, range, refrigerator, furnace, water heater, 2 new dump valves, sink, faucets, etc. It's going to be a long winter.

Thanks for all the help with the vibration problem. I'm sure I'll have other questions as this project progresses.

Geo...