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Old 06-27-2019, 12:26 PM   #1
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GY Endurance Failure - Valve Stem Related

2015 FC 25' RB. Driving back from the FL Keys yesterday, I had a flat tire. I never tow above 60 MPH. Outside ambient was 95F. Tires: GY Endurance ~ 1 YO with about 5,000 miles use. Inflation pressure of other tires at the time of failure was 74 PSIG (so I'm sure this one was not overinflated).

The brass valve in the stem appears to have blown out of the rubber portion of the stem. Contacted the tire vendor I purchased from in May 2018. He said (based on the billing coding) that the shop should have installed high-pressure stems. The shop offered a discount on one replacement tire (not very inspiring). But there doesn't seem to be a lot of margin in the pricing to offer much more.

At this point, I'm looking at the following list of things to do:
  1. Replace the other tire on the same side as it's been stressed.
  2. Replace all valve stems with metal valve stems.
  3. Get a TPMS.
  4. Replace lug nuts with solid units (v.s. AS OEM nuts & metal caps).
Anything I'm missing here? Thanks
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Old 06-28-2019, 04:55 PM   #2
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Here are images of the failure. Still trying to make sense of what took place here. Note the part of the sidewall that is bent in is because part of it fused to the inside of the tire (it clearly got hot). Anyone want to take a crack at forensically describing what happened here?

Did the tire overheat, blowing off the stem? or Did the stem blow out creating the tire failure? TPMS should help catching these kinds of failures (?). Thanks.
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Old 06-28-2019, 05:18 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Specsalot View Post
Did the stem blow out creating the tire failure?
^^^^^^^^^^^^ This^^^^^^^^^^^
Stem blew out, tire deflated, tire was destroyed. Minor semantics, but it wasn't a failure of the tire, i.e. the GYE. It was a failure of the stem.

Make sure when you get TMPS (if it's the kind that screws on to the stem) that the shop installs SOLID metal stems, not just metal stems mounted on a rubber base. That's what might shop did at first...then I showed them the transmitter and the light went off in his head that this needed to be a completely rigid stem, from inside the wheel all the way out.
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Old 06-28-2019, 05:21 PM   #4
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I'd go with 2, 3, 4.
I think the TST TPMS was my best purchase so far. Having a valve stem fail might have given you enough warning to pull over before the tire was destroyed.

I changed all the valve stems to metal. Did them myself*... Your rims are the same as mine, Sendel T-2.
The stems that work are the Dill 902-W, available at Discount Tire.

* I did the stems myself. It's sort of easy technically, but it's a dirty sweaty job, requires a bead breaker, and in the end my Viair couldn't supply the volume to reset the bead, so I took the rims to a tire store anyway. If you have a tire store that you trust to jack up the AS, let them do it. (I didn't)
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Old 06-28-2019, 06:06 PM   #5
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Yup, rubber stems are only good to 65 psi, for E-rated tires go with metal.
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Old 06-28-2019, 11:19 PM   #6
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My plan:
  1. Get the Dill stems.
  2. Replace the failed tire @ TireKingdom.
  3. Have the potentially overheated tire inspected internally at the local GY shop.
  4. If OK, have it transferred to my steel spare rim.
  5. Have a new GYE fitted at GY.
  6. Install wheels with new lug nuts.
  7. Buy and install a TST 507 4 wheel flow thru sensor TPMS.
TireKingdom should have recommended metal stems. So they won't be getting any more camper tire work beyond their offer of a discount on a replacement. I have had good service from them in the past, but it always required going in knowing exactly what you wanted done. In this case I didn't know about the limitations of rubber stems when I moved to GYE's.
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Old 06-29-2019, 06:57 AM   #7
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I recommend the Dill Trailer tpms. It has internal sensors. No worries about valve stems, theft etc. Cheaper too about $300.
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Old 06-29-2019, 07:24 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRIPPPIN View Post
I recommend the Dill Trailer tpms. It has internal sensors. No worries about valve stems, theft etc. Cheaper too about $300.
Cheaper?
I bought the TST 507 with 4 cap sensors AND the color monitor for $297. Shop.

There are pros and cons of the sensors.
External Cap:
Pro: No need to remove the tire.
You can change the battery easily.
Smaller than the flow thru sensors.
Con: Batteries need changing about every two years.
Need to remove to air up.
"could" get damaged if you hit a curb.

External flow thru:
Pro: Add air just like the valve cap.
You can change the battery easily
Con: Stick out more than cap sensors
Batteries need changing about every two years.

Internal:
(TST no longer sells internal 507's)
Pro: Out of sight, out of mind.
Don't stick out.
Can't be stolen.
Batteries last about 5 years.
Con: Any service requires removing the tire.
Expensive.

I chose the cap sensors. I guess if I hit curbs often I could sheer one off. It requires a tool to remove for theft protection, but, as you'll discover, you look at the monitor to check tire pressure, and only remove the sensor when one needs air.
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Old 06-29-2019, 01:07 PM   #9
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Great points / analysis gentlemen.

I'm going to opt for the TST cap style because I've never had to do much tweaking of air pressures. The Dill system says battery life is 5-7 years which is interesting, but not a deal closer. Given ~4-year tire swapping, the TST system will have a lower total cost of ownership.
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Old 06-29-2019, 02:05 PM   #10
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They do still carry the TST 507 internal sensors, $441 for four.

I went with the flow through just to avoid removing them to air up or down. I boondock a lot, so I often will air down to 45-50 psi or so when traveling (slowly) down washboarded road. Less stress on the trailer. Then I pump back up with my Viair before getting on the highway. So I like the flow through option.

With either the flow-through or cap versions, they are powered when they are under pressure. So when I'm in storage for more than a couple weeks at a time, and especially over the winter, I loosen the lock screws, and back the sensors off enough that it isn't allowing air out. Screw them back in when getting out of storage. This turns them 'off' in storage and will greatly extend battery life. A couple of mine died in the middle of a trip this past May (Batteries were less than a year old), and could not find those batteries anywhere (there was no home depot anywhere nearby.) I now keep a spare set of batteries in the truck as well.

FWIW, having these likely could have saved your tire. Would have gotten an audible and visible alarm as soon as the air started leaving the tire, and pulled over in time if safe to do so. I've tested this by manually letting air out of a tire...didn't need to get 'under' psi that I set as my low number...just the rapid deflation triggered the alarm, almost immediately.

They give me a lot of confidence on the road.
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Old 06-29-2019, 03:11 PM   #11
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Another pro for internal sensors: reported temperature is more representative of the actual internal tire air temp than the ones at the end of the stem.




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Old 06-29-2019, 04:13 PM   #12
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One of my metal stems (factory installed - I think) loosened and caused a loss of pressure. The TPMS system alarmed and I pulled over so there was no tire damage. I was on my way out so I went to Discount Tire and had them replace all the stems (will never darken their door again, it was a horrible experience). They did not have metal stems so they installed rubber ones so I could continue the trip. I called TST from the shop, they answered the phone and told me as long as I did not have the flow through cap I could use the TPMS.

I did so and have taken several trips since with this solution but my conclusion is that there is no good solution using external monitors. I would vote for the internal ones like we have on our other vehicles which for me have always been problem free.

Just my personal experience.
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Old 06-29-2019, 04:35 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smithcreek View Post
Yup, rubber stems are only good to 65 psi, for E-rated tires go with metal.
Actually you can get a hybrid valve stem that is part rubber part metal that is rated up to 100psi.

https://www.etrailer.com/Tire-Inflat...a/AM20907.html

That appears to be what AS installed on my Bambi
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Old 06-29-2019, 04:55 PM   #14
3rd one is the charm?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KelloggKid View Post
Actually you can get a hybrid valve stem that is part rubber part metal that is rated up to 100psi.

https://www.etrailer.com/Tire-Inflat...a/AM20907.html

That appears to be what AS installed on my Bambi

I would not use that with external TPMS sensors. There will be movement at the rubber base caused by the weight of the sensor, leading to failure. Something more like this is best for external sensors.https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories...a/AM20906.html
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Old 06-29-2019, 07:06 PM   #15
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What?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smithcreek View Post
Yup, rubber stems are only good to 65 psi, for E-rated tires go with metal.
They install from the factory rubber ones on the stock Endurance Tires and Aluminum Rims and then tell you to inflate to 80 PSI.

Im going to call Airstream Service on this one to get a verification from Service.
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Old 06-30-2019, 07:29 AM   #16
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what is the size of the valve hole on stock rims?
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Old 07-01-2019, 12:28 PM   #17
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what is the size of the valve hole on stock rims?
I believe the internal hole in the rim is probably ~0.453". The challenge is two-fold:
  1. The recessed area on the outside of the rim for the stem is very narrow. Too narrow for the most common TR 416 style stems. These won't fit Sendel T02 rims.
  2. Having a stem which is rigid enough to accommodate external TST 507 Cap Style Sensors.

I was told by the local Goodyear shop that the high-pressure rubberized metal stems would not be compatible with an external valve stem mounted TPMS. They said they could not source valve stems that were. (ugh)

I've in the process of chasing down Dill VS-902-W stems. I've located the vendor that Dill sells through in Florida (Florida Tire Supply). Their local rep in my area cannot sell me the stems directly, so I'm trying to work with a local shop that buys from them who 'might' have some in stock.

This local shop is already trying to tell me that rubberized metal HP stems will work. Goodyear says they won't. So I have to go with GY at this point. I'm glad I have a lot of time before my next planned outing to get this sorted out.

Thanks once again to everyone that has responded. I'll keep you all posted on my progress. This is the bad boy I'm looking for:
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Old 07-01-2019, 11:55 PM   #18
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I was able to locate the VS-902-W valves stems @$2.50 each at a local over the road commercial truck tire shop.

If you are in FL and looking for these stems, contact Florida Tire Supply (google them); Their reps can tell who's got them in your local area.
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Old 07-02-2019, 02:57 PM   #19
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Ordered the following today to complete this evolution:
New Lug Nut Set - (Existing clad ones have splits in covers)
Centramatic Balancers
TST TPMS cap style sensors
Replacement rubber is in process with shop who already has VS-902-W stems in hand.
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Old 07-02-2019, 03:33 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcskier View Post
I would not use that with external TPMS sensors. There will be movement at the rubber base caused by the weight of the sensor, leading to failure. Something more like this is best for external sensors.https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories...a/AM20906.html
I have the TST 507 system with valve cap sensors and also use the metal/rubber steams. 10K miles now and no issues. Where do you find a "warning" not to use these? The GY chart says 45-50psi for my weight; I run my pressure cold at 50-55 psi, and don't have any issues with my rivets popping nor hinges coming loose since I reduced from 70PSI. I usually travel 60-65MPH and occasionally a bit higher speed when needed. I travel in TX heat and MT cold...new GYE's this past year and again, no issues. If you can share any concerns in writing about those valve stems not being recommended by the MFG, I appreciate it.
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