Goodyear Marathon tread separation ... and our solution

[JimGolden]

The Stream is sitting on some old Carlisle tires. They still look good.

On the Avion, I just bought seven new Maxxis UE-168 tires. I was kind of pushed to get new tires as I bought the trailer in TN and the tires that were on it were rotted terribly. Anyway, the Camping World in Knoxville had Marathons for $160 each but no mounting machine. They told me at the counter that they don't balance them either. Well, I didn't really want marathons after reading all the horror stories on here, and $160 times six wasn't exactly my cup of tea. No matter, they couldn't put them on anyway. A guy there told me about a place up the road that had all kinds of tires. I got there (Go Forth Tires, nice guys there, off I-40) and they had Maxxis tires. The UE-168 was what he had in stock. They say LT and ST on them. More on that later....I tried to go with a 225/75-15 Load Range E (The Avion has a much heavier frame and a different suspension setup than the Stream...I wasn't worried about a heavy sidewall hurting it) but they weren't tall enough. It had Michelin 700R15's on it before. But the Maxxis 235/75 was the perfect height, but it was wider. Well, we mounted one to see if it would clear the fender wells and frames and it was fine. So I bought six of them along with metal truck valves and had them spun balanced.

They're load range D, 8-ply rating. They had two ratings on the tire, depending on the application: One was 2150lbs and the other was I think 2350lbs rating per tire. Multiply that times six and I'm WAY over any load I could ever have. These tires actually do have 3 ply side walls. They are a commercial truck tire that is also rated ST for trailers. They have very stout side walls and UV inhibitors. Since buying them (I had little choice), I've done some reading and I've read nothing but good about them. Anyway, I just bought a seventh one to be the spare. Got it from Unser Tires online and paid $85 for it with free shipping. Had it mounted on the extra mag, spun balanced and metal truck valve. I run 65psi in them. Rims are fine. I pulled the trailer over 600 miles on these tires (not much, but that was just pulling it home) and it ran great. They didn't get hot (and it was HOT when I bought this thing) or anything. The rig really pulled nicely (I'm a triple axle convert; although it's actually got six individual swing arms and independant suspension for all six with a shock on each one ).

Anyway, I hope I didn't buy a bad tire. But I think they're going to be good stuff.

I agree with Bob's idea of going to 16" wheels and using LT tires. But since you can get these Maxxis tires that fit a 15" rim and are made pretty well, that may be another option for some. The 225/75 might be better for an Airstream. The Avion has a slightly bigger wheel opening.


Airstream, Avion, Silver Streak, Streamline; as long as they're silver, I love 'em all!

Cheers!

[Happycampers]

Originally Posted by Robmk2

Markdoane....Hi!
No I dont have a Halsey I was referring to the earlier posters question, sorry for the confusion..... I have the reese and the EZ friction sway bars.

But now I'm thinking...My rig as is fully loaded is 8800lbs - less the hitch weight is 8100....8100 divided by 6 wheels is 1350lbs each.... Guess I can just use good Light Truck tires anyway - (The Kumho 235/75/TR15 is rated at 2028lbs at 44psi. Its $52 from Tire rack) mmmmm.... 2028 x 6 is 12,168lbs - should be plenty of margin methinks..... any comments???

(OK The Avion isn't Airstream - but it sure Thinks it is!)

Robmk2

Robmk, I had a set of Kumho tires on my last pick up for 3 yrs. before I traded and the last time I rotated them they still looked like new tires. I am getting a set for our car next weekend and will put a set on our trailer this fall if I can get the right size.


Marvin

[peegreen]

Recap:Last Saturday on the way to the Cape we experience a blow out on the curbside rear tire. Gives me an excellent real life opportunity to try out my DOT approved reflective triangles spaced ~ 100' apart give or take 50' (too long a walk and too hot out to have to retrieve them after I finish my Indy pit stop imitation). Chuck shows up to say hi. I give a quick look under the trailer to locate the designated jacking points (they don't exist, checked owners manual again, they're still not there) but pull up on two boards just fine. Oh, trailer tracked just fine with the Rease dual cam, only knew I had blow out was the debris trail behind me and the sound of the steel belts tearing up the the belly; enough to actually bend the outriggers.Leave the Cape today, stop a Sullivan tire in Hyannis where they have 5 new Marathons waiting - manufactured in '07. An hour later we were heading home. I think the load range "C" for a total of 8600# doesn't leave much margin and is not the best choice for my 31" although original equipment. I'm told that "D" is now being used as was on my '89 32'. I feel more comfortable towing with the "D's". As far as manufacturing quality??? An added bonus was tax free day in Massachusetts. I am annoyed (saddened) that so much damage was caused by a blowout which is a common roadside event when riding on rubber tires. Lots of talk on tire monitors - lots to think about.

[SilverToy]

Jim etal -

Having had Maxxis tires installed on my rig, SilverToy, I am also quite pleased with the apparent quality, and the ease of pulling with them... so far. I have about 8K on the tires so far. They were what the local tire place offered, in a reasonable range, and since I also have 7 tires to replace ('92 34' Classic Limited) the 'prudent' choice also was the economic winner.... not that the economic choice means ONE WHIT if you have ANY blowout with the attendant damages....

I was at JC about 2 years ago and there was a couple that wrote a check for 6K+ at the desk for repairs on a triple axle that was caused by a center axle blowout....!!!!

Since I also had a center curbside axle blowout - on my maiden, first ever TT! tow, no less!!! This gave me serious pause. I was EXTREMELY fortunate, since there was NO damage on my unit (other than a 'polished' shock mount). BTW, tire was 'no existant' on the rim, there was only the inner and outer sidewalls left on the rim - and they were seemingly 'cemented' in place....

I know there is no 'perfect tire', nor is there a perfect TV, nor is there a perfect TT.... Airstreams are always presumed to be, but they are only as good as the care and attention they get.....same as your TV, your house, your life.....

I ALWAYS check my tires and hubs at EVERY stop.... Takes a minute to do, and saves a LOAD of $'s if there is a 'problem', since nearly everything 'broadcasts' a signal that it is suffering and about to let go.... and then, there is that lovely advertising adage that said, and quite rightly so..... "you can pay me now, or pay me later...." Later is ALWAYS more expensive.

THAT one you can all take to the bank.

I don't have a vested interest in tires of any brand, nor do I care what anybody uses (LT vs ST vs.....) but I DO CARE that folks ARE CAREFUL about using what they have.... after all, I may likely be in the lane next to you when you have a problem, and I am going to be VERY upset if something happens to me/and or mine, because of something someone else DID NOT DO to ensure 100% roadworthyness on their vehicles. Can you say LIABILITY?

Again, not trying to harp on anyone, but just needed to vent on the safety thing for a sec....

Enjoy those Maxxis tires... and I hope that you have as good a run with them as I have so far....(knock wood!)

All the best!

Axel
SilverToy

[Blu_Hwy_Lady]

I'd posted here a couple of weeks ago that my son had a Marathon blowout on his SOB. Coming back from Elephant Butte in southern New Mexico, he had one blow-out north of Socorro and another just south of Albquerque. The first blow-out took out a propane line, part of the wheel well and the "low point" part of the water tank. And yes, he was towing with the propane on and it was hissing so they were really lucky there was no fire. The Marathons had about 10k miles on them. This time he's ready to report the failures to the NTSB.

[warbler5]

After one failure that was discovered before starting 400 mile round-trip vacation and one that happened one the way home, we are done with Marathons! We went the same route as RossFam05BH (thanks Paul for posting your choices and experiences!).

With those of you still running Marathons, I have to say that you may be able to avoid damage by carefully monitoring your tire pressure. Both of our failures came on tires that had lost pressure. One had lost 5 lbs while we spent 10 days at Lassen Volcanic National Park (the remaining 3 still had 65 lbs). We did a physical check of all 4 tires (checked by hand for deformities) about 20 miles before it failed, and nothing was noted.

I drive no more than 60-62 mph while towing, the tires were meticulously kept at 65lbs, and all of our tires had at least 7/32 of tread remaining. All of our tires except the one that replaced the first failed tire were made in Canada. Since we removed the Marathons from the trailer, we have found a third tire with a suspicious bulge where the tread meets the sidewall (also one of the original 4 made in Canada).

I am not trying to scare anyone....but, I can tell you that it scared the h*** out of me when the one tire failed while on the road! That tire had completely lost pressure by the time we stopped, after a trucker alerted us to the "low" tire....

[Cobra2693]

I own a 2005 31 ft. Airstream Classic and just recently replaced five Goodyear Marathon Tires because of tread separations. The tires had less than 5000 miles and the tread had started to separate on two tires. Fortuantely a WBCCI member pointed the problem out to me and recommended that I switch to the 16 inch Michelin XPS Rib tires with American Eagle Alloy Series wheels 055. These are excellent tires with improved stability on the highway. I consider myself fortunate that this potential SAFETY HAZARD was called to my attention. Thanks Paul, for encouraging me to make the change.

Jerry

[davidz71]

I recently replaced my remaining 3 Marathons with 3 Maxxis 225-75-15 tires to match the one put on last Oct. due to brake/bearing failure which overheated the streetside front Marathon and lead to it's failure (pic attached). Those remaining tires were a D load tire manufactured in Valleyfield, Quebec, Canada 4th wk. of Oct. '01; a C load manufactured in the same Canada factory 2nd week of April '03; a C load manufactured in Union City 4th week of May '99 and a spare C load also manufactured in Union City 3rd wk. of May '99. I can't remember what date the tire that blew had on it but I do know it was a C rated tire so it may have matched the other C load tires. I'd say they have done remarkably well and the blown tire didn't have a chance with the brake drum heating up to almost an orange color.

[Phoenix]

We have a 19-foot, single axle, 2005 Bambi; and just had both Marathons fail. One blew out at 60 mph; and when we were having that one replaced at a tire shop, we found that the belt had crept on the other one. We didn't want to put on more Marathons; so went kept the spare Marathon on the ground, purchased one Carlisle LR-E, and kept the Marathon with the slipped belt as a spare. (We were in a small town and they only had one LR-E tire available.)

We are now getting ready to replace the "good" Marathon and Carlisle tires with Michelin XPS Rib's on new 16-inch wheels.

The 16-inch wheels we are looking at are 7-inches wide, with bolt pattern 6x5.5, bore 4.25 and offset 0 (zero). While I am pretty sure this is correct, can anyone confirm that this sounds like the right size?

Also, the Michelin XPS Rib's are 225/75R16, LR-E, will be approximately 1-inch larger in diameter. While I originally thought that this would be no problem, it looks like there are only a few inches of clearance (on the outside diameter) between the existing tires and the wheel wells.

Have any of you that switched to 16-inch wheels and 2.25/75R16 tires had any problems with clearance?

Thanks in advance for you advice...

[Beginner]

Those of us with trailers old enough to have come originally wi the 7.00-15 Load Range D tire and later had the ST 225/75R15 installed are ok because the Michelin XPS Rib and the BF Goodrich Commercial T/A (in 225/75R16 size) are the same Outside Diameter (OD) as the 7.00-15 and acceptablly close to the maximum width of the ST225/75R15 Marathon.
What you have to determind is this:
1. What is the swing authority of your axle arm in degrees.
2. Convert that amount of swing in degrees to the number of inches the spindle can swing up (maxximum negativve position) when it hits the built in stops.
3. From the maximum up position of the spindle measure the distance from the upper position of where the spindle will be to the inside of the fender.
4. Determine the radius of the XPS or the Commercial T/A.
5. If the distance between between the spindle in the up position is less than the radius of the tire (Clearance should at least 1 inch larger than the radius of the tire) you will have rubbing when you hit bumps etc.
Beginner

[Phoenix]

Beginner, thanks for the quick response...

I'll have to take a look at the Airstream specs and see if the numbers work out. My gut feeling is that a 1-inch increase in diameter is only 1/2 inch in radius, and hopefully there's more than 1/2 of clearance remaining with the 16-inch tires (versus the old 15-inch wheels and tires).

One other question -- Since there isn't room enough in the wheel wells to go to a significantly larger tire, and it appears that blowouts are a routine occurrence on Airstreams; we are considering switching to steel wheels instead of alloys. This is both for strength (for running on the rim until you can get safely stopped); and because it appears that you have to buy a new wheel everytime you have a blowout, and steel wheels are cheaper. However, they are also heavier.

Are there any problems with increasing the unsprung weight significantly by switching to steel wheels and Michelin XPS Ribs? If I recall correctly, the combined increase due to the heavier tire and steel wheel is 20-25 pounds per wheel/tire. Also, I suspect that these are going to be really heavy to change on the side of the road.

Awaiting your comments... (thanks)

==============

As an aside, there's a "Beginner" over on TundraTalk.net. Are you also on that forum?

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

...Are there any problems with increasing the unsprung weight significantly by switching to steel wheels and Michelin XPS Ribs?...

in theory YES...

and if you believe that a 'stream is 'engineered around the specific axle/shock rating...

only towing 10s of thousands of miles will move theory to practice.

why not just try a set of maxxis E rated 8008s on your current wheels?

and add tire SEALANT to whatever tire selected....

routine blowouts will be greatly reduced by using a sealant.

on a single axle trailer tire sealants are a real benefit for all but catastrophic failures...

cheers
2air'

[warbler5]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

....the Michelin XPS Rib's are 225/75R16, LR-E, will be approximately 1-inch larger in diameter. While I originally thought that this would be no problem, it looks like there are only a few inches of clearance (on the outside diameter) between the existing tires and the wheel wells.

Have any of you that switched to 16-inch wheels and 2.25/75R16 tires had any problems with clearance?

No problems.....in reality, you are only ~3/8" closer on each side. In towing, the Michelins track soooooo much better than the Marathons, it's a completely different towing experience. Out of habit, we do monitor tire pressures, but in the past year, there has been less than 1-lb of pressure decrease total.....unlike the Marathons.

I guess, with the Michelins, we spend more time enjoying the trip and less worrying about tire failures...

[Phoenix]

By the way, since Michelin XPS Ribs are summer/highway tires, how do they perform in the winter? We camp in cold weather too, but usually don't venture very far off the beaten path in ice, snow or mud. I was just wondering if they are harder than rocks in cold weather, or whether they are prone to wheel-lockup when it gets a little slick...

[Phoenix]

UPDATE: The Michelin XPS Ribs in 225/75x16 and new 16-inch wheels did not fit -- too big. Dang!

Looks like we are going to keep our old wheels and try Maxxis 225/75x15, LR-E. It is sure frustrating that there isn't much selection in tires, and 16-inch wheels won't fit.

Also, it seems like Airstream designed our 19-foot Bambi with tires that are too small for the load; and they didn't leave enough clearance to put on larger ones. Is there any solution to use larger wheels/tires besides radius-ing the wheel wells, like they used to do with muscle cars in the 60's?

[pattonsr]

What makes the new tires too big to fit? Where do they rub?

[Beginner]

Tires rubbed probally because the fender wells were probally designed for the ST225/75R15 instead of the 7.00-15 tire that the older trailers were designed for.
Beginner

[RossFam05BH]

Hey Phoenix,

Too big in which dimension? Height, width, offset? The height difference should be only 29.4" - 28.25" = 1.15". Width is almost the same as a 225/75-15 as seen in the picture on post #69 of this thread. Maybe Beginner is right in that Airstream may have decreased the wheel-well opening size on late-model Bambi's. Our Safari was designed for 15" wheels and tires, but 16" fit with adequate clearance. In fact, the diameter of the separated GYM we experienced was greater than the new Michelin XPS rib (again, please see post 69). I'm surprised that Airstream would have decreased clearance on single axle trailers over the years.

Update time. We now have over 12,000 miles on the XPS ribs and have experienced no problems. We went to Disneyland over the summer and noted that all of the trams that shuttle guests from the parking lots use XPS rib tires. We felt rather vindicated by this in that one of Disney's highest priorities is guest safety.

Bye,
Paul

[Phoenix]

The tire width was too great to fit between the hub and the outside skirt of the wheel well. Discount Tire tried jacking the trailer up higher, angling the tire/wheel, etc. and there was no way that the tire was going up in the wheel well.

I think they might have been able to deflate the tire and squeeze it in, but then how the heck would I get it off if I had a flat on the side of the road. Also, the outside diameter clearance was only about 2 or 3 inches with the 225/75x15, it was probably going to be 1.5-2 inches if they had been able to get the XPS Rib into the wheel well, which is really close. I really didn't want to risk ripping the entire wheel well out if we had another blowout. Also, the clearance between the edge of the 15-inch tire and the outside skirt of the wheel well is only about an inch; and the XPS Rib is a wider tire, so that would so tight that you couldn't get your hand between the tire and the outside edge (skin of the trailer).

So, Airstream must have decreased the clearance in the wheel wells in recent single axle trailers, as you stated.

I am really disappointed, as I thought we might have the last of our tire troubles behind us. Now, we face more uncertainty as we become guinea pigs for Maxxis. Wish us luck -- we are probably going to need it. But, NO MORE MARATHONS!

[COArgosy78]

dont know if anyone has mentioned this yet as I didnt read the whole thread, but there was a really good video on u-tube (i think) w/20/20 about old tires & how Sears and other tire sellers have tires on their shelves that are over 8 to 12 yrs old & that any tire over 4-5 yrs old is a separation disaster waiting to happen. There is a number on the back side of tires (done in a way that most cant read) that tells when it was manufactured. I will try to see if I can find the video again & post how to see it for all concerned.