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Old 06-28-2015, 08:41 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
"My Airstream is in the shop at this time getting the damage repaired that was caused by the defective Goodyear tire."

"Airstream customer service told me they do not have a speed limit on the trailer."

The speed of the trailer is limited by the rating of the tire, a constant, and common sense....a variable.

...GYM, 12 yrs, 2 sets, one nail.
I would say that speed, over time, was THE cause, not a "defective Goodyear Marathon".

If Airstream is telling their customers that they do not have a speed limit for their trailers, I hope they retrain those folks. Just like any vehicle with tires on it, the upper speed limit IS affected by the tire's capability. Thus, the speed ratings on tires. Put S-rated tires on your super-duper sports car, drive 130 mph, and I would expect you'll have tire problems, but not because the tires are "defective". The tires were used past their design limits.

Common sense is a huge variable.
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Old 06-28-2015, 10:08 AM   #114
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Imagine dealing with a blowout and sway at 85 mph.
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Old 06-28-2015, 10:53 AM   #115
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We switched on trailer to Michelin 16" and when we ordered this new one we ordered from the factory with Michelin 16" because I like to usually drive the speed limit or close to it. If it's 70 I most often go 70, if above that I generally stay around 70. I know the ST tire limits and know they eventually will fail. We have had Goodyear STs, and adhered to speed restrictions with no issues.

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Old 06-28-2015, 11:03 AM   #116
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You're towing a 30' Classic at 80-85mph and then wonder why all 4 of your tires had failed?!!

I was just in Ft. Davis a couple weeks ago and on the way there on I-10, was passes by a guy towing his behemoth 5th wheel doing 80-85 (I was racing along at 60). I mean, this guy flew by me... This was outside Ft. Stockton. Anyway... as I was turning into the state park in Ft. Davis, the guy in the 5'ver had just pulled into the park ahead of me.

You're lucky nothing bad happened other than blown tires because towing a heavy Classic at those speeds doesn't give you much reaction time to compensate...

...
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Old 06-28-2015, 11:41 AM   #117
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I am a firm believer in operating with a safety buffer in most things I do. I also believe there is adequate documentation here and elsewhere in the RV world, that GYMs and, to varying degrees, all ST tires are closer to failure than a properly loaded LT tire at any speed. I have had two GYM's fail. both on other travel trailers, and road hazards were the cause. I attribute my good fortune of not having more ST failures to adhering to the speed limit published for them and using a TPMS after the first two.

However common sense, research, and observation tells me that trailer tires are designed with a much smaller safety margin, because they are not going to be hauling humans. The fallacy in this reasoning by the agencies that regulate tires is failing to acknowledge that humans are in the vehicle that is pulling the trailer. A trailer tire failure can and at times does draw the tow vehicle into an unexpected uncontrollable maneuver that results in human injury or death.

I prefer to drive over 65MPH without worrying all the time about the tires. Therefore I opted to use Michelin LT tires. In practice when speed limits and road/traffic conditions allow, we drive between 70 and 75. Safety and controllability are the limiting factors not tires, However I like knowing that I can exceed that speed for short periods if necessary. (for instance to complete the passing of another vehicle in an more expeditious manner).

Ken
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Old 06-28-2015, 06:56 PM   #118
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I have a 1985 34' triple axle. Will 16" LT tires fit in the wheel wells and not interfere between the axles? I presume the 225/75R16? I have 245/75R16 Michelin LTX on my tow vehicle (diesel E350 Ford) and have been very happy with their performance.

Have had the Goodyear Marathon ST's for years and never had a problem other than they eventually wore out the tread. Trailer weighs in about 9400 most of the time.

See my previous post for some pictures http://www.airforums.com/forums/f448...ccd-34487.html
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Old 06-28-2015, 07:19 PM   #119
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I think we can all agree that you need to update to the 16" wheels and better tires.
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Old 06-28-2015, 07:26 PM   #120
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I think we can all agree that you need to update to the 16" wheels and better tires.

Not necessarily 😃

6 Marathons will support 15,000# and at 9400 - that's a lot of capacity. The experience reported on the trailer has been fine.

It seems like the 2 top things popping GYMs are tight loading (near, at or over capacity) and over-speeding given their 65 mph limit.

It's possible that used with a lot of headroom and in speed limits imposed on the ST tire, they could be very serviceable.

Plus - the tire experts on this forum have often talked about the complex things that happen with tires in a tri-axle - that ST construction might be best suited for a triple.

(Yes, I swapped my GYMs for the p-rated Michelins - but I wouldn't recommend that for everyone...).
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Old 06-28-2015, 07:45 PM   #121
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Any ST tire built today has a 65 mpg speed rating. That rating is based on the tires ability to dissipate heat while rolling. So while you can keep pressures up to properly carry your trailer's load, speeds over may cause excessive heat which can will ultimately lead to failure. Keep in mind the heat build up is naturally caused by the flexing of a tire while it rolls plus air and road surface temperatures. The faster the tire rolls the more heat is generated. If you notice Airstream notes that you can tow with a tandem axle trailer on three wheels if you lose a tire, but keeping the speed down to 45 mph. One of the reasons is because a that speed rating has another component which is the load factor. According to a tire safety class that I attended, a slower turning tire can actually carry a load that is higher than its max capacity, if the speed is reduced. Less flexing means less heat. Towing with a missing tire means that the single tire is most likely carrying more that it's max capacity. If one would plot a tires capacity on a graph, you would see a downward slope as tire speeds increase. That's why if you drive fast, the LT tire is a better choice. Heat is your major issue. You generate it by speed based on flexing of the tire. You also affect the amount of flex based on inflation pressure.

Jack

Hi, Jack; FYI, I just bought four new Carlisle ST tires for my trailer and had them installed yesterday. They are "M113" speed rated at 81 MPH. This is one of the reasons that I switched from Marathons this time.

My four Canadian Marathons all went bad, but were replaced before exploding. [two sidewall bubbles and two separations] My original spare was never used in ten years and the three Chinese Marathons on the ground never had a problem. The forth tire on the ground was a Carlisle
which is now mounted on my spare steel wheel. Two of the Chinese Marathons that were removed yesterday were seven years old. The Carlisle and the third Chinese Marathon were three years old.
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Old 06-28-2015, 10:28 PM   #122
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Bob, you got me thinking about the ST trailer tires I recently put on our Avion. They are from Big-O, Commodore Radial ST's. I assumed they were "normal" ST-rated tires, but I just looked at the Big-O site and found out they are N113's, an 87 mph tire!

https://www.bigotires.com/Tire-Detai...DIAL-S-T/14861

I'll still poke along at 60-65 mph. Good to know about the ratings, though.
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Old 06-28-2015, 11:33 PM   #123
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The tires were on a 2014 Classic Limited, they were 15" Goodyear Marathon trailer tires. I check the pressure each morning before I pull out, I also look the tires over closely at the beginning of each day on the road. That is how I caught 3 of the failed Goodyear tires before they caused damage to the Airstream. The one that actually Blew-out looked fine that morning, air pressure was fine at 65psi. Looked fine three hours later when I stopped for Fuel, felt of all 4 tires temperature felt ok no obvious problems were visible. 60 or so more miles on down the road the tire blew-out while crossing a narrow bridge in Louisiana. I was driving 70MPH. It sounded like a shotgun going off then I saw the tread fly up in the air after it caused $8,000 in damages to the trailer. I have my tire gauge marked at 65psi so it is easy to check the pressure. Yes I drive fast I have pulled my trailer at up to 85MPH it pulls great. Airstream customer service told me they do not have a speed limit on the trailer. Yes it does burn more fuel at that speed 9.8 MPG. Yes the speed limit on some roads in Texas is 85mph. I think Goodyear should not make or sell any tires they are not going to stand behind. I now have Carlisle load range E trailer tires (also made in China), just drove from Kerrville Tx to ElPaso Tx at 80 to 85 mph both ways with no problems. I felt of the tires several times they were fine. I just purchased 16" wheels and going to change over to Michelin LT225/75R16/E tires as soon as I get the trailer out of the shop. I am concerned when it comes to the 15" trailer tires, at this point I do not trust any of them. I told the last Goodyear person I will never buy another Goodyear product and will work on others to do likewise. The Goodyear person did not care about the 4th tire I showed him, he said it was made in USA but was surprised when I pointed out the made in China label. Next he told me that the factory in China makes excellent tires. This tire is the same one that I posted a picture of previously. In my opinion that is a defective tire, it is coming apart just like the other three did. 100% failure rate in less than 2 years. My Airstream is in the shop at this time getting the damage repaired that was caused by the defective Goodyear tire.

OK so you have admitted to abusing the tires by exceeding their 65 MPH max. This is just like running your TV engine well above the tach redline then complaining the engine is defective.

If you want to claim the tire is "defective" that's fine... What is the defect? Simply because the tire failed is not proof of a defect any more than seeing a dead animal proof they were sick.

The post on my blog "Blowout a real life experience" of July 22 2012 of a failure on an AS kind of tells the story (link to my blog in my profile).

You didn't mention what your tire size was or what the measured loads were on each tire position either. Did your TPMS not provide you with a warning of air leak?
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Old 06-29-2015, 06:41 PM   #124
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Well seeing the comments about some newer 15" tires with higher speed ratings, may go that route. I regularly ran my trailer at 75 mph cruise in western states with the GYM inflated at full sidewall pressure whatever that is (been awhile since I have used the trailer), and later at 45 psi to soften the ride a bit, the cabinets kept popping open. The tires I speak of were purchased in the mid 90s and early 2000's and all went over 15000 miles at least and are still on the trailer. Due for some new ones more due to age than anything else as I plan to take some long trips starting in a couple years.

Have not seen answer about the 16" tires fitting in the wheel wells, I presume everybody but me knows that they do fit. If it matters my trailer has the original torsion axles and they sit a little low.
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Old 06-29-2015, 07:00 PM   #125
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My comment about needing better tires was directed towards Bladesmith, the original poster, who runs fast.
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Old 06-29-2015, 10:04 PM   #126
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one more note on the Goodyear tires

The 4 Goodyear tires went south at speeds between 65 and 70 the only time I exceeded 70 is passing. I do not see how 5MPH is causing these failures. I do drive faster now that I got what might be better tires. I only had one Goodyear tire blow out. All other three were ply separations that I noticed before the tires lost air pressure or ruptured(blew-out). If Goodyear makes tires engineered so close to failure that 5MPH causes the tire to fail they need to rethink a 7% margin of error on their tires. I want a tire I can depend on and not be changing out on a trip or on the side of the road. When I decide road conditions allow driving at the legal speed limit I want to have confidence that my tires are up the job. I check the tire temperature every time I get fuel my tires have never been hot enough to be uncomfortable to hold your hand on. They get hotter setting in the hot summer sun. Almost all of my trips are in the cooler months of the year, so I do not see how tire over heating is a factor in these tire failures.
The Airstream trailer has a lower center of gravity and is more aerodynamic than any other trailer I have ever seen or towed. They tow great at 85MPH provided you have a quality tire up to the job.
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