|
|
03-19-2015, 08:09 AM
|
#21
|
Rivet Master
2006 23' Safari SE
Biloxi
, Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 8,278
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS
This should make future posts easier.....
Personally, I can't stand the ________ . I cannot tell you how many times I have been dragging a _______ down the road & and have had one of them give out.
Not to be mean, but they are a POS tire. I have had much better luck with ________.
I have been saving my shinies for some ______ for awhile now.
Just fill in the blanks copy & paste.
Bob
|
Need a Like button.
__________________
MICHAEL
Do you know what a learning experience is? A learning experience is one of those things that says "You know that thing that you just did? Don't do that."
|
|
|
03-19-2015, 10:18 AM
|
#22
|
Rivet Master
1994 30' Excella
Currently Looking...
Milwaukee
, Wisconsin
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,935
|
I will be replacing a set of four year old Carlisle's this year due to rot not wear. We do not tow much but the TT sits on a campsite for long periods as we are camp hosting. The GYM seems like the most popular but they are a major contributor to the air and water pollution in Dalian, China. I have personally seen it. Can anyone tell me about the Michelin and their experience with the lifespan. I would love to get more than four years from a set of tires.
__________________
Chaplain Kent
Forest River Forester 2501TS
|
|
|
03-19-2015, 07:55 PM
|
#23
|
1 Rivet Member
2016 27' Eddie Bauer
Plantersville
, Texas
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 11
|
Goodyear Marathon tires
I run 65psi checked my tire gauge I have it marked at 65 psi not 60 my mistake.
I pull the trailer at 65 to 70 MPH
|
|
|
03-20-2015, 12:46 AM
|
#24
|
Rivet Master
2007 23' Safari SE
San Diego
, California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,495
|
|
|
|
03-20-2015, 03:01 AM
|
#25
|
2 Rivet Member
2014 28' Flying Cloud
2021 16' Basecamp
Millsboro
, Delaware
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 95
|
We have the 15 Goodyear on our '14 28'. We debated replacing at the factory too the 16 LT but the dealer talked us out of it.
My thought at the time was to run them until needing replacing and then upgrade. We haven't had any issues after 3000 miles, but in reading other's experiences I wonder if we should replace now. I would hate ruining a vacation replacing tires.
Opinions?
__________________
The journey is the destination
|
|
|
03-20-2015, 06:28 AM
|
#26
|
Moderator
2004 30' Classic Slideout
Fenton
, Missouri
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,408
|
Goodyear Marathon Tires
My dealer has no love for the ST's on the bigger Airstreams. He sells other brands of trailers and is quick to point out some of the large 5th wheelers on his lot whose manufacturers are now equipping with 16" LT tires. The good side is there are some great deals on the Internet where you can get the same LT tires and wheels for much less cost than buying them from Airstream. In addition you can sell your 15" wheels to another owner. My cost for tires and wheels alone saved me $400, plus I sold my wheels for $250 on Craigslist.
Jack
__________________
Jack Canavera
STL Mo.
AIR #56 S/OS#15
'04 Classic 30' S.O.,'03 GMC Savana 2500
|
|
|
03-20-2015, 07:45 AM
|
#27
|
Rivet Master
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 899
|
Carlisle is owned by Goodyear.
__________________
JIM n CHRIS
‘62 Overlander 26 ft. ATW Yeager trailer #5289
"62 Airstream 22ft. ATW Hall trailer #83,’90 SQ Sream, ‘06 Bambi Q/S, Prevost Featherlite 45ft, GMC/ Bigfoot camper
|
|
|
03-20-2015, 08:15 AM
|
#28
|
"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,000
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloradobus
Carlisle is owned by Goodyear.
|
??????????????
Bob
|
|
|
03-20-2015, 08:57 AM
|
#29
|
LEV ZEPPELIN
2004 19' International CCD
Chicago
, Illinois
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,048
|
I must be an exception to the rule. I've been running the same GYM that came with my 2003 19' ccd. They have held air better than my tow tires, needing a top off in spring and fall. Driving trips from chicago to Badlands, Smokey Mts, boundary Waters, Upper Penninsula, and many others.
So 12 years isn't bad. I am planning new tires in the coming weeks and torn between GYM, Gladiator, and Tow Max. For now I'm leaning toward a D load, though have not ruled out E. We travel light.
The reports about GY are scarey
|
|
|
03-20-2015, 09:47 AM
|
#30
|
Moderator
2004 30' Classic Slideout
Fenton
, Missouri
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,408
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloradobus
Carlisle is owned by Goodyear.
|
I don't think they own them but based on manufacturing codes on the tires, some of the Carlisle tires have been produced in Goodyear plants.
Jack
__________________
Jack Canavera
STL Mo.
AIR #56 S/OS#15
'04 Classic 30' S.O.,'03 GMC Savana 2500
|
|
|
03-20-2015, 09:59 AM
|
#31
|
Moderator
2004 30' Classic Slideout
Fenton
, Missouri
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,408
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazylev
I must be an exception to the rule. I've been running the same GYM that came with my 2003 19' ccd. They have held air better than my tow tires, needing a top off in spring and fall. Driving trips from chicago to Badlands, Smokey Mts, boundary Waters, Upper Penninsula, and many others.
So 12 years isn't bad. I am planning new tires in the coming weeks and torn between GYM, Gladiator, and Tow Max. For now I'm leaning toward a D load, though have not ruled out E. We travel light.
The reports about GY are scarey
|
You are an exception if your tires are 12 years old of any brand. Although your gross weight with load is about 4500 lbs. Aren't you a single axle or are you a tandem? If you are a tandem, ST tires are not a bad choice in your weight class.
Jack
__________________
Jack Canavera
STL Mo.
AIR #56 S/OS#15
'04 Classic 30' S.O.,'03 GMC Savana 2500
|
|
|
03-20-2015, 10:36 AM
|
#32
|
Rivet Master
2000 19' Bambi
mt. Prospect
, Illinois
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 829
|
My '00 Bambi came with Marathons that were original and 8 years old when I bought the trailer. The PO had had no issues with tires at all. I replace them with new Marathons, stepping up to a D load rating. Like Lev, I've pulled them out west and back, and all over the midwest, run them at 65 lb cold and have not had any problems. They can sit all winter and don't lose any air. Maybe they are well suited for a 19' for some reason. I've been thinking of replacing them, as they are now 6 years old, but will probably stick with the Marathons unless Michelin produces an ST tire.
|
|
|
03-20-2015, 10:42 AM
|
#33
|
LEV ZEPPELIN
2004 19' International CCD
Chicago
, Illinois
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,048
|
Jack,
Yes, we have the single axle. And thanks Robert.
__________________
Sometimes I wish I were living in the stone age. Then I would know I'm the smartest person in the world.
|
|
|
03-20-2015, 11:52 AM
|
#34
|
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
Ravenna
, Ohio
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,344
|
Causation or Correlation
The fundamental problem with the idea that just because the plant that built the tires is painted green or has two floors rather than one or has a Zip code beginning with 9 rather than 4 or is built by people that speak Spanish rather than German etc that we should expect the tires made there to fail at a high frequency, is not based on sound problem analysis.
I could just as easily claim that RV workers that live in Ohio are bad because every RV problem reported here was built by workers living in Zip code starting with 45.
Lets break this down:
It is a fact that of the 30,000 or so RVs that have been weighed with individual tire position scales over half have one or more tires in an overload condition. In any population of products if over half are being used beyond their design intent (max load based on measured inflation) why would we be surprised if there is a relatively high failure rate?
Well what if I said that 90% of the tires that are put on RV trailers are built in tire plants painted Green? Does it seem logical that the color of the paint used on the building would result in a tire being weaker or to age faster ? If that were true maybe the color we paint the RV might have an effect on the life of your tires.
If you haven't studied Statistics you might invest 18 minutes and watch this video " Correlation does not mean Causation"
You might see how improper analysis is many times used in advertising, on TV and even in Political sound bites.
But back to tires.
Another fact is that other than with a complete loss of air, tires almost never fail as soon as they are overloaded or under-inflated or run faster than their designed speed. The reality is IMO that a problem with tires is that they are perhaps too good. Since they don't fail as soon as they are abused, the owner isn't immediately punished (by having an immediate tire failure) so the owner incorrectly assumes his actions are OK.
There have been documented cases of tires failing days and weeks after being damaged from significant overload. A few cases have been well investigated as both personal injury and even deaths were involved.
This is both good and bad news.
It's good news is tire failure happens infrequently. The bad news is that owners receive negative reinforcement that bad actions (over-load, low inflation and high speed) do not result in a failure, so the owner does not associate the failure with the incorrect behavior. Any parent knows that when a child does something wrong it does no good to chastise them days later.
Now I am not calling everyone that has had a tire failure a "bad" person or insinuating they are behiving like children. I am using this example as this is rather basic psychology.
I have documented some tire failures that occurred and were not properly associated with the previous damage in a few posts on my blog.
It is important to remember that if you do not properly identify the real reason for a product failure simply changing the brand or painting your RV a different color will probably not prevent a recurrence of a future failure.
__________________
Retired tire engineer (50 years). Write a blog on RV Tire Safety Net. Give seminars for FMCA across the US. Tucson AZ in Mar 2024 is next.
|
|
|
03-20-2015, 11:56 AM
|
#35
|
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
Ravenna
, Ohio
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,344
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcanavera
You are an exception if your tires are 12 years old of any brand. Although your gross weight with load is about 4500 lbs. Aren't you a single axle or are you a tandem? If you are a tandem, ST tires are not a bad choice in your weight class.
Jack
|
Very important point. Multi-Axle trailers impose significantly greater Inter-Ply strain than single axle trailers because the tires are fighting each other as they cannot all rotate around a centerline pointing to the center of the radius of the turn.
You can Google RV tire Interply shear if you want the technical info.
__________________
Retired tire engineer (50 years). Write a blog on RV Tire Safety Net. Give seminars for FMCA across the US. Tucson AZ in Mar 2024 is next.
|
|
|
03-20-2015, 01:07 PM
|
#36
|
Rivet Master
2005 19' Safari
GLENDALE
, AZ
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,453
|
Quote: "It is a fact that of the 30,000 or so RVs that have been weighed with individual tire position scales over half have one or more tires in an overload condition. In any population of products if over half are being used beyond their design intent (max load based on measured inflation) why would we be surprised if there is a relatively high failure rate?"
----------
248 AirForums members completed the Tire Failure Poll. 118 Airstreams had 173 tires that failed. Most of these were OEM GYMs or ST tires in a size and inflation pressure specified by the Airstream factory.
While similar data for 16" wheels and LT tires are not available, it looks like only five LT tire failures have been reported by AirForums members who switched.
In my opinion, unless those 30,000 RVs are Airstreams and the tire models, sizes and inflation pressures are available, I don't see how this data is pertinent. Could you please cite your source and provide a data extract of only Airstreams with OEM-spec tires and inflation pressures? Without comparable data, this comparison is of apples and oranges.
If this information is unavailable, I don't know why AirForums members should accept the blame for tire failures, when the personal experiences of many indicate that ST tires have not been well-suited for use on their Airstreams.
==========
Quote: "It is important to remember that if you do not properly identify the real reason for a product failure simply changing the brand or painting your RV a different color will probably not prevent a recurrence of a future failure."
----------
In my opinion, this statement is untrue.
As non-tire-engineers, we do NOT need to know the exact cause of tire failures. By trial and error, many of us have determined for ourselves that (at least on our own Airstreams) LT tires are more reliable than ST tires; and switching to 16" wheels and LT tires WILL greatly reduce the chances of future failures.
|
|
|
03-20-2015, 01:18 PM
|
#37
|
"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,000
|
"As non-tire-engineers, we do NOT need to know the exact cause of tire failures. By trial and error, many of us have determined for ourselves that (at least on our own Airstreams) LT tires are more reliable than ST tires; and switching to 16" wheels and LT tires WILL greatly reduce the chances of future failures."
Many but not all.
Bob
|
|
|
03-20-2015, 01:39 PM
|
#38
|
4 Rivet Member
1969 29' Ambassador
1985 31' Excella
1969 29' Ambassador
Crescent
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 272
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix
Quote: "It is a fact that of the 30,000 or so RVs that have been weighed with individual tire position scales over half have one or more tires in an overload condition. In any population of products if over half are being used beyond their design intent (max load based on measured inflation) why would we be surprised if there is a relatively high failure rate?"
----------
248 AirForums members completed the Tire Failure Poll. 118 Airstreams had 173 tires that failed. Most of these were OEM GYMs or ST tires in a size and inflation pressure specified by the Airstream factory.
While similar data for 16" wheels and LT tires are not available, it looks like only five LT tire failures have been reported by AirForums members who switched.
In my opinion, unless those 30,000 RVs are Airstreams and the tire models, sizes and inflation pressures are available, I don't see how this data is pertinent. Could you please cite your source and provide a data extract of only Airstreams with OEM-spec tires and inflation pressures? Without comparable data, this comparison is of apples and oranges.
If this information is unavailable, I don't know why AirForums members should accept the blame for tire failures, when the personal experiences of many indicate that ST tires have not been well-suited for use on their Airstreams.
==========
Quote: "It is important to remember that if you do not properly identify the real reason for a product failure simply changing the brand or painting your RV a different color will probably not prevent a recurrence of a future failure."
----------
In my opinion, this statement is untrue.
As non-tire-engineers, we do NOT need to know the exact cause of tire failures. By trial and error, many of us have determined for ourselves that (at least on our own Airstreams) LT tires are more reliable than ST tires; and switching to 16" wheels and LT tires WILL greatly reduce the chances of future failures.
|
So you are saying the ST tires fail, because they are on airstreams? That other trailers do fine on them, just not Airstreams. I still think the reason they fail is
1 old tires
2 unseen damage
3 speed
4 overloaded
5 improper inflation
If you were to replace tires every three years, I think we would see a drastic decrease in failures IMHO
Cost in 15 years
$460x5=$2300 for ST
$1000x3=$3000 for LT + initial cost of new wheels - selling your old wheels
You could almost replace ST's every two years. I actually think it's whatever makes you compfortable driving down the road. Talking money, it's a wash, but the fact that it's an Airstream has nothing to do with failure. If it does, Airstream, has a design flaw. IMHO
__________________
Have a blessed day !
TAC OK-5
|
|
|
03-20-2015, 04:14 PM
|
#39
|
Rivet Master
2005 19' Safari
GLENDALE
, AZ
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,453
|
My comments appear below in BLUE TEXT:
- So you are saying the ST tires fail, because they are on airstreams? That other trailers do fine on them, just not Airstreams. -- No; ST tires also fail on fifth wheels, and on travel, boat, horse, utility and other types of trailers. Other usergroups just don't collect failure data, and the few details available are anecdotal. While interesting to note, it doesn't seem useful to discuss other trailers' tire failures on this forum. However, if interested, one's curiosity can be satisfied by Google-ing "Goodyear Marathon tire failures".
- I still think the reason they fail is:
1. old tires -- The Tire Failure Poll indicates that ST tires begin failing when brand new. Then, the failure rate steadily increases and peaks in year three when the rate drops off, probably due to most bad tires having already been replaced. Costco, Discount Tire and Michelin all recommend regular inspection of tires for age-related problems beginning in the sixth year; so replacing tires at three years of age seems premature, assuming they are OK.
2. unseen damage -- If "unseen damage" includes failure of internal tire components, then this would be difficult to prove, either in support of or against this statement. However, if "unseen damage" is the cause of ST tires failures, why doesn't this also cause LT tires to fail on the same Airstream, driven in a similar manner, on similar roads, with the same tire pressure?
3. speed -- Same reasoning as #2, above.
4. overloaded -- Same reasoning as #2, above.
5. improper inflation -- Same reasoning as #2, above.
- If you were to replace tires every three years, I think we would see a drastic decrease in failures IMHO -- I can speak only from personal experience: On our single-axle Airstream, two OEM GYMs failed at three years of age. Then, I installed two Maxxis ST tires (which some believe to be better than most other ST tires); and two years later, one of those failed. So, if one follows this guideline for using ST tires, the time for replacement should probably be modified to "annually".
Note: Our Michelin XPS Rib LT tires are four years old, and we have had absolutely no problems with them.
Regarding the cost comparison, only time will tell whether switching to 16" wheels and LT tires is cheaper than continuing to use ST tires. However, this calculation should also include the cost of any Airstream repairs; as the cumulative chances of wheel well and body damage may increase with the total number of blowout/tread separations.
For us, increased tire reliability and reduction in downtime on the side of the road are worth any additional expense.
|
|
|
03-20-2015, 05:24 PM
|
#40
|
4 Rivet Member
1969 29' Ambassador
1985 31' Excella
1969 29' Ambassador
Crescent
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 272
|
I'm not saying LT is the wrong way to go. I'm saying for every trailer that blows a ST there is another guy running without problem. People who have had a problem tend to tell about it a bit more than those who dont. I personaly havent, and I have four trailers with 15" ST ( 16 tires) one with 16"ST (four tires). I have run TT's since '99 without issue, boats since '94, work trailers for 10 years. That doesnt make me right, or you wrong. Just another point of vew. Thats why I said, cost is even,it comes down to what your compfortable with, so we can drive happy. I may have any one of those tires fail tomorrow, just has'nt happen in the past.
__________________
Have a blessed day !
TAC OK-5
|
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|