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Old 07-28-2013, 06:52 PM   #15
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A few thoughts...

When ST tires were developed, the national speed limits was 55 mph. If you towed your trailer at the speed limit, there's an 18 or so percent speed cushion. When the speed limit was raised, the tires had been in service for quite a while, and change is slow (if at all).

There are several states with 70+ mph speed limits, towing at 60-65 would be asking to get run over. When we lived out West, I learned quickly to adjust my towing speed upwards, especially when all there is in some states is miles and miles of miles and miles.

Persons towing fifth wheel trailers regularly blow by use doing 75+ when we're on the road. As long as you can write the checks for the fuel bills...
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Old 07-28-2013, 07:10 PM   #16
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A few yrs ago I had a Casita. Read the forums and bought Kumo radials the only radial that fit the rim (2009). 4000 miles to the first blowout. Would the st have blown?? Who knows. Drive sanely and you'll be ok.
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Old 07-28-2013, 07:12 PM   #17
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Some things to keep in mind about trailer tires:

When you make sharp turns with your trailer there is a lot of stress on the sidewalls of your tires. The wheels on your trailer are trying to go straight.

This can cause loss of air pressure as well as belt damage to your tires.

Tire air pressure of more than 50psi requires high pressure valve stems.

It's not uncommon for tire stores to put standard valve stems in trailer tire rims. This has happened to me before. The tire store employee told me they were out of the correct valve stems. I had also asked them to inflate the tire to 60psi. I checked the pressure when I got home and found the tire was inflated to 30psi.

My neighbor was getting ready for a camping trip with his Artic Fox trailer. It came from the factory with Goodyear Marathon tires. He had checked the air pressure the day before and noticed before leaving that one of the tires appeared to be low on air. The tires had the wrong valve stems from the factory and one tire was losing air at the valve stem.
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Old 07-28-2013, 07:17 PM   #18
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We cruise at 55-60 in Arizona, where the speed limits on Interstate highways are often 75 mph. You'd think everyone drives 75-80 here, and some do. However, at 55-60, we find that many who pass us are only going a couple of mph faster than we are, probably around 65. Some of the long haul truckers have governors set at 62-63, so it's not as bad as one might think, even here on long, straight, open highways.

I have towed our 19-foot Bambi at speeds as high as 75 mph. However, at 55-60, besides the safety advantages of slower cruising speeds, gas mileage is markedly improved by as much as 20%. See comments previously posted in other threads, below:

==========

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...ml#post1203666

"Our current TV is a 2008 Tundra CrewMax, 2WD, with 5.7L V8; and we get about 13.5 mpg towing, on average. Our best towing mileage has been 16.5 mpg in the Rockies where speed limits were 35-45 mph; and the grades didn't seem to negatively affect mpg's. Our worst was 11-12 mpg while cruising on Interstates at 75 mph; and we don't do that anymore (one quick trip to a funeral after switching to 16-inch wheels and LT tires)."
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Old 07-28-2013, 08:34 PM   #19
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As a point of interest, the speed limit on I-10 east bound from El Paso to San Antonio eventually is posted as 80mph. At 65mph on the Honda GoldWing, I could see 35 mpg, but at 80 I saw 25 to 27mpg.

Drag is the issue here and some engineering rules such as to double the speed takes the cube of the power.

Running at 55 to 60 on day long drive, those that passed me at 80 have stopped extra times for gas and we stay in the same motel that night. Guess who was more rested at the end of the day?

Since there is no speed limit annotated on the Michelin tire, I feel safe if I have to go 65 mph as I am not pressing the limits of the tire.
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Old 07-29-2013, 07:41 AM   #20
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A couple of responses:

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmw photos View Post
......For just a few dollars more I can buy a LT that does not carry those handicaps.
Ah, ...... Mmmmmm....... This isn't exactly correct.

Ya' see, part of what makes an ST tire an ST tire is that the tire trades off speed for load carrying capacity. Use a larger tire and the speed capability would increase. This holds true for LT tires as well.

Yes, yes, this isn't listed as part of the labeling on the tire or part of published standards, but it's there.

{QUOTE=Phoenix;1332812]......NHTSA would take notice if ......[/quote]

I would add to that list: "Where the number of tire failures rises to the top."

First, NHTSA requires tire manufacturers and distributors to report all tire failures to them on a quarterly basis. When I last looked, passenger car tires were hardly present in the list and LT tires were dropping rapidly.

That means that anyone manufacturing ST tires would notice that these tires would rise to the top of the list. To get on that list, you have to at least file a warranty claim with the tire manufacturer - or better yet, file a "Property Damage Claim" if your trailer was damaged.

Problem: There is an exemption for the tire manufacturer if less than 15,000 tires a year are manufactured of any particular combination of size and load range. I suspect Goodyear and Maxxis exceed that, but other manufacturers, probably not.

I note with interest that the obvious way to get around this exemption is to change brand names on a regular basis - and it appears that this is being done with tires made in China. Ever hear of Mission brand?

The way to make this exemption disappear is to report failures to NHTSA. If they continue to get these reports, they will figure out what is going on (if they haven't figured it out by now, but it isn't at a level where they can act).

{QUOTE=Phoenix;1332812]......So, the only alternative that might eventually work will be to vote with our feet, as Carl2591 suggests above. When enough people switch to LT tires, the money will stop; and ST tire manufacturers will be financially forced to take a look at where their customers went, and why. (Just my opinion, but this won't happen soon, if at all.)....[/QUOTE]

First, trailer manufacturers are part of the problem. They will continue to buy these tires in HUGE quantities. I'll bet they buy more than the number sold in the replacement market (if you factor in the multitude of brands).

Then if you factor in that in spite of all the complaining at web sites like this, the failure rate is still a small number. That means that only Goodyear and Maxxis are likely to feel the pressure - partially because they are the only ones who have a system to monitor the failure rates.

Trailer manufacturers are also part of the load vs speed problem. They could design their trailers to have reserve capacity so speed and load couldn't possibly be an issue.

Bottomline: If the tire failure isn't reported, then it's like it never happened. While refusing to buy ST tires seems like a good tactic, in reality, it would take so long for the affect to be noticed and the numbers would be so small that I doubt it would work at all.
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Old 07-29-2013, 08:38 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapriRacer View Post
A couple of responses:



Ah, ...... Mmmmmm....... This isn't exactly correct.

Ya' see, part of what makes an ST tire an ST tire is that the tire trades off speed for load carrying capacity. Use a larger tire and the speed capability would increase. This holds true for LT tires as well.

Yes, yes, this isn't listed as part of the labeling on the tire or part of published standards, but it's there.

.
Are you saying that a given tire design is not rated to carry it's stated load at it's maximum speed at the specified pressure ?

thanks, geo

EDIT: ( to include the whole paragraph I wrote )

I said:
"Part of the reason I will not buy ANY ST tire is this bogus cheap azz nonsense of a tire only being good for 65 mph and 3 to 5 years. For just a few dollars more I can buy a LT that does not carry those handicaps."
....end quote.
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Old 07-29-2013, 11:17 AM   #22
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Here is the example of what I did on my TT. It came from the factory with 14" load range C tires. Brand was Freestar. Load capacity was 1760 lbs @ 50 psi. The documentation I found on them said they were speed rated "J", which is apparently 100kph ( 62 mph ).
I replaced them with 14" load range D, Kumho. Capacity is 1874 lbs @ 65 psi. These are speed rated "Q" which is 160 kph ( 99 mph ).
I also replaced the valve stems with metal stems. I had them balanced which the factory did not do to the originals.

In my mind, even though I did not increase the diameter ( the Kumho is actually a fraction of an inch smaller in dia, but not much. About 2/10" ), I have improved my lot in life somewhat, for towing at normal highway speeds, which for me is typically between 55 to 60, but occasionally to 65 mph.
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Old 07-29-2013, 12:28 PM   #23
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Hi from AZ . . . boy, no consensus on tires here !! never has been, best I can tell. I have GYM's on my Safari 25, with a date code of 2007. They were newly installed when I purchased the AS in 2010 and now have about 12 or 13,000 miles on them. They are properly inflated before EVERY move and covered otherwise. So, what's your point Craig ? NO failures, NO problems. As I contemplate new tires before next Summers long adventures, I'd buy them again without question if they weren't China made and may anyhow. New Carlisle's are re-engineered & American made, so maybe ?! Fun ain't it ! regards, Craig
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Old 07-29-2013, 02:34 PM   #24
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GYM Made in USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by RamblinManGa View Post
As I contemplate new tires before next Summers long adventures, I'd buy them again without question if they weren't China made and may anyhow.
Craig,
I installed a set of GYM's in August 2010 and they are stamped Made in USA. The original set of GYM'S from the factory were Made in Canada in 2004. I had one of the original tires blow out at 65 MPH when the temperature was close to 100. I figured the age of the tire and the heat most likely caused the blowout. If Goodyear had not moved their manufacturing back into the USA, after several years in China, I would have not purchased the Chinese GYM's.

I store my AS in my climate controlled garage and use it 30 to 50 days a year and tow between 60 and 65 MPH. So far the current GYM's have around 5000 miles on them, seem to be in great shape, do not loose air like others have reported and I hope to get a couple more years of use out out them.

Dennis
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Old 07-29-2013, 02:37 PM   #25
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I've been running Goodyear trailer tires on 3 different trailers since 1977. I've never had a flat or blow-out. I did have an issue with one GYM tire that was 5 years old. The tread was starting to separate from the steel belts.
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Old 07-30-2013, 06:28 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmw photos View Post
Are you saying that a given tire design is not rated to carry it's stated load at it's maximum speed at the specified pressure ?

thanks, geo

EDIT: ( to include the whole paragraph I wrote )

I said:
"Part of the reason I will not buy ANY ST tire is this bogus cheap azz nonsense of a tire only being good for 65 mph and 3 to 5 years. For just a few dollars more I can buy a LT that does not carry those handicaps."
....end quote.
No, I am saying that ST tires aren't restricted to 65 mph, IF they use more inflation pressure and/or they carry less load. IF LT tire were to be loaded to the same degree that ST tires are, they would be speed restricted as well.

In other words, part of the things that make ST tires St tires and LT tires LT tires is the speed vs load issue. In LT tires, the load is much less and the speed is greater.

Here, let me give you an example:

ST 235/85R16 Load Range E: Max Load 3640# at 80 psi. Max speed 65 mph

LT235/85R16 Load Range E: Max Load 3042# at 80 psi. Q speed rated ( 99 mph)

The ST tire is allowed to carry 600# more than the LT tires, BUT the LT tire has a higher speed capability.

Now, I am NOT arguing that there aren't problems with the current ST tires available on the market - there are, and the problems seem to be traceable to low quality designs - that is, those tires aren't benefitting from the latest technology.

BUT I am arguing that IF ST tires were redesigned, they WOULD perform as well as an LT tire. Why am I arguing that position? To make sure everyone understands that the label on the tire (the letters "ST") are NOT the problem. The confusion is understandable because the 2 things are present in these tires and the shortcut is easy to remember - but they aren't linked by the laws of physics and it is possible that some tire manufacturer will fix the problem by designing an ST tire the same way they design LT tires. I think there is some movement that direction - ala Maxxis - but it will take time for that to happen.
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Old 07-30-2013, 07:01 AM   #27
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This website gives an indication of how to tell if a tire is American-made:
Where's My Tire Made | AmericanMadeTires.com
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Old 07-30-2013, 07:32 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapriRacer View Post
No, I am saying that ST tires aren't restricted to 65 mph, IF they use more inflation pressure and/or they carry less load. IF LT tire were to be loaded to the same degree that ST tires are, they would be speed restricted as well.

In other words, part of the things that make ST tires St tires and LT tires LT tires is the speed vs load issue. In LT tires, the load is much less and the speed is greater.

Here, let me give you an example:

ST 235/85R16 Load Range E: Max Load 3640# at 80 psi. Max speed 65 mph

LT235/85R16 Load Range E: Max Load 3042# at 80 psi. Q speed rated ( 99 mph)

The ST tire is allowed to carry 600# more than the LT tires, BUT the LT tire has a higher speed capability.

Now, I am NOT arguing that there aren't problems with the current ST tires available on the market - there are, and the problems seem to be traceable to low quality designs - that is, those tires aren't benefitting from the latest technology.

BUT I am arguing that IF ST tires were redesigned, they WOULD perform as well as an LT tire. Why am I arguing that position? To make sure everyone understands that the label on the tire (the letters "ST") are NOT the problem. The confusion is understandable because the 2 things are present in these tires and the shortcut is easy to remember - but they aren't linked by the laws of physics and it is possible that some tire manufacturer will fix the problem by designing an ST tire the same way they design LT tires. I think there is some movement that direction - ala Maxxis - but it will take time for that to happen.
Ok, now I understand what you are saying. Thanks for the clarification. So I take from your comments here that using a LT tire, that has sufficient load capacity ( with adequate reserve ) for the load we are placing on them, we are getting effectively the best of these worlds:
1. load capacity
2. speed rating
3. potentially higher build quality

....plus, although you didn't comment on it:

4. likely longer life ( from a strictly age standpoint )

Regarding running higher pressures in a ST tire to raise the speed rating, it is my understanding that GoodYear approves running up to 75 psi in a load range D Marathon. Doing so increases it's safe operating speed to 75 mph. However they do point out this does NOT increase the load carry capacity, and that you still must observe wheel ( and valve stem ? ) limits.

I should also point out in fairness to the chinese made ST tires that came on my little white SOB trailer, I ran them for a season, and none failed, even on some very hot all day runs. I attribute a least part of this to the fact that on my trailer, I have 3600 pounds sitting on the axles ( according to CAT scale ), and I had 7040 pounds of tire capacity, so in other words nearly double the load capacity. I am also religious about tire pressure ( I cheated them upward a little bit. Spec was 50 psi, I set them to 53 psi cold ) and I run pretty slow it sounds like compared to many users on this forum. I run 55 to 60 mph mostly.

By the way, to the comment above by r carl about Kumho being made in China, the company does have a plant in mainland china, but I am not certain what tires are made there. The Kumho's I have were made in Korea.

Thanks again for your clarification.
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