Goodyear Marathon Failures

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS

Hi, You're exactly correct; ST tires "compliment the application" for trailers. Trailer tires are supposed to have extra UV protection for sitting in the sun.

And they do......the problem is the fact that those compounds are only distributed in the tire when it rolls. So a tire sitting with sun exposure on the tires, will leach out the UV componds on the sun exposed sides. That's not a problem if the tire has some regular use since the compounds will redistribute with the flexing of the tire. That's why you cover them if you are going to have long exposure periods.

Jack

[Gene]

Originally Posted by bhayden

What bothers me is the large number of people who seem to be ultra careful in choosing and maintaining equipment who have reported failures of relatively new tires. None of these people seem to report similar failures of tires on the tow vehicle. Could it be that ST tires are just poorly constructed in order to save money?

I thought bhayden was onto something—people who do everything right still have problems—but then I found out letting the tires sit was the problem, or maybe covering them cured the problem, or maybe towing the trailer several times (or more, or less) a year would cure the problem. I've also learned the tires were "capped" several (or more) years ago to prevent tread separation. Many many posts ago I discovered the Canadian Goodyears were better than the Chinese ones, but more recently I learned the tires haven't been made in Canada for quite a while, or maybe not for so long a while.

I have also learned there are so few problems that it doesn't matter (unless it's my trailer), but maybe bhayden is right and trailer tires are garbage.

I'm confident that people who take proper care of their tires will get better service, but I'm confused what kind of care is significant and what isn't. Shall I tow my trailer around the block (out here, that's about 2 miles) every few weeks?

A lot of smart people with considerable experience have posted here and it feels like it's mostly guesswork, good guesswork perhaps, maybe even correct guesswork, but I still don't know for certain (1) how often tire tread separates, (2) information about different brands, (3) effect of proper care and just what proper care really means, and (4) do people who are "ultra careful" have the same or different results?.

I do know that in 50 years of driving, I've gotten better service on cars and trucks from Michelin tires than any other brand. I bought the Doran 360 TPMS (better design than the Pressure Pro) because it made sense to me to monitor trailer tire pressure. I'm not sure tread separation would give adequate warning though—would that be a blowout situation? I think all these posts provide a lot of valuable information (and some, less us say, not so valuable information) and, yet, I can't be sure just what to believe. So I'll cover the tires, maybe not as often as I should, watch pressure and look for damage, drive no faster than 65 (usually), try not to overload the tires, make sure the TPMS works and when the Marathons are too old (is that 3, 4, 5, or 7 years—I've seen all those recommended), I'll look for Michelins.

Gene

[richinny]

hey gene, let's make a monitor that alarms with excessive vibration!

[sander17]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

I'll look for Michelins.

Gene

Unfortunately, the last time I looked, Michelin did not sell a trailer-specific
tire in the US anymore.

[Beginner]

No Michelin does not have a specific trailer tire, however, if you go to their web site and email customer service they will recommend you use the XPS Rib. My only problem with that was that it came in Load Range E only.
Thats why I went with the B. F. Goodrich LT 225/75R16 Load Range D Commercial T/A and new 16 inch wheels in the spring of 2006.
After candid talks with several tire dealers and distributors in the area (after a friend in the industry greased the skids so that they would not lawyer up), if you follow the inflation/load chart Michelin has on the internet (or that they will mail you free of charge), you will be just fine.
Beginner

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by jcanavera

...In my case the second last trip of the year in season 4 was the one that did me in...

and it happen after camping in a park with some of the nastiest gravel i've parked on.

when i pulled into compton ridge, by first thought (after noticing the ridge) was look at this gravel.

it was large, it was sharp, it was unevenly groomed, with lots of ozark bedrock exposed...

did i mention it was sharp!

i walked the loop and considered NOT pulling through because of the gravel and bedrock.

the main campground has MUCH different surfaces.

so when i read about your tire issue at home, my though was you cut a tire, which did not lose air for 200 miles or so?

is that a failure or is that inevitable if traveling on gnarly stuff ?

i have friends that live in the flint hills, and the country roads are ground flint.

typically they go though 2-3 sets of tires every year on the trucks, cars, hummer-1...

and get 1-2 seasons from heavy equipment tires...

so they have otherwise good carcasses retread whenever possible...

all of their tire issues are related to surface cutting and abrasion.

having not seen jack's problematic tire, this is only a guess but cut treads do happen and will peel...

almost ALL the gym reports i've read related to BELT SEPARATION, not tread peeling, with a few 'total catastrophic failures...

still driving on a slow leak or under inflated tire can lead to tread peeling (separation) or belt movement...

using a tpm system might help in that regard,

because drivers are often UNAWARE of low or flat tires on multi axle trailers....

until the tread flies away and the entire tires fails badly, which is what we often see in the pictures...

cheers
2air'

[Gene]

I've seen Michelins on those bus sized mohos, so I assumed they would have a trailer tire. I don't see the harm using E (10 ply) rated tires rather than D especially if you're traveling on nasty roads or that campground 2air was at.

I drove my 4Runner with Michelins more than 800 miles on a road (Dempster Hwy) in Yukon Terr. that was notorious for eating tires because of sharp shale in the road base. I had no problems. These were just 6 ply, C rated, original equipment tires, but they'll go over 50,000 miles (at 47,000 now) before they wear out. A Forum member reported numerous tire failures on that road about 5 or 6 years ago, but I don't known whether he had Marathons or what their rating was.

Gene

[safari 28]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Or, could it be the side wall twisting that takes place in tight turns?

Andy

Man, I have wondered about that for years, mostly towing boats. It just seems internal shredding takes place on those really tight backing into a driveway/lot positions. It also seems like it would put huge stress on the bearings and axle in general. I imagine a steer tire on a car can take the same punishment, but still the stress must add up over time.

[jcanavera]

Unfortunately there are a lot of issues here with lots of advice. The problem just like with my tire is that we will never know for sure what the point of failure is. 2air, here is a picture of my tire after I pulled it off.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/464225-post148.html

Was the tire sliced by a sharp rock? Always possible. I've camped at the main Compton ridge campground for almost 30 years and those rock surfaced sites never have cut a tire before.....but never say never.

I guess we are all struggling to find a common thread in the tire failure issue but in essance it can be many, many, reasons. Granted Goodyear OEM's more tires than anyone on new trailers so the universe of reported problems is going to be larger.

Most of us choosing different manufacturers are looking at what we can do to minimize the risk. If you've read this thread you have seen the aspects of the known tire killers, age, inflation, load, physical damage, lack of use, and balance. How each manufacturer's tire holds up to these different risk factors is what we are all attempting to figure out.

My answer was to go with a heavier load range tire that is built with a nylon cap (Maxxis) which helps minimize belt squirm. Will it give me superior service? Quite honestly its a crap shoot. Let's keep the channels open on this topic, especially to those who have chosen a non Goodyear replacement. Only time will tell.

Jack

[bhayden]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

no i don't have the market share data...

stiill your comment about 'poorly constucted' might be valid.

many think trailer tires have reached commodity status, i've read that some asian tire companies sell them by the pound...

Exactly! Look at the weight of the Marathon (or any ST tire) and compare that to an LT the same size and you'll see the dollars per pound relationship. Compare a few LT tires of different cost and you'll see the same relationship. The way to make a cheap tire is to minimize material and ST tires are the lightest (for size and load rating) of the bunch.

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

certainly g-balls and carlisle and the other misc brands of ST tires have failures too...

These are companies that contract out the actual manufacture of the tire. In many instances they were relabled Goodyears. Really hard to know who made the tire as they often switched mid year and/or bought tires from more than one supplier during the same period. The common thread, trailer tires are designed to be cheap

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

maxxis is a relatively new player (for the st market) so let them pile up some sales...

Maxxis is the upscale name Chen Shin Rubber company is using to market their tires. Chen Shin has been around for years and rebadging their product to disguise it's Asian origins are nothing new either. Remember "Swallow" motorcycle tires .

Scott makes are good point about the load per axle. If you're keying off the tow vehicle (like I do ) when adjusting the weight distribution hitch then I guess it's possible the rear tires could end up carrying a greater percentage of the load. However, the trailer is always loaded slightly tongue heavy (or you've got serious handling problems) so the WD hitch should minimize the problem. It just seems that shouldn't be an issue with a properly designed trailer thats loaded sanely and follows the recommendations for hitch height, etc.

[Silvertwinkie]

As far as I am concerned, I had the Marathons and had no issues in the 4.5 years I had them on my Safari. Keep in mind my Safari is under 7000lbs, so perhaps I'm not a good litmus test for the tires as say Jack's 30' slide or 2Air's 34 footer.

The issue to me was not blowouts or sidewall failures. I read hundreds, if not thousands of complaints about tread seperation on Marathon tires. Though it is true that the Marathons are on nearly every trailer/RV I've seen, thus making any issue seem larger, I had not read a lot of issues with Maxxis. Even though there are fewer Maxxis tires out there, the desgin of the nylon cap, having used them in performance tires on my cars, I could understand how this could help reduce the odds of tread seperation. Tire companies also have known about nylon caps for decades too. Why does Goodyear not have a nylon cap on the Marathons? I don't know the answer to that, though I have some idea that it may have to do with cost and what the bean counters at Goodyear come up with as a cost to add the nylon vs. a lawsuit they could loose, but I'm simply speculating here.

I can say that without the nylon caps, Goodyear still has a lot of tire failures in the Marathon line. Oddly enough you don't see these failures on say ther Eagle GT performace tires, which also many units were sold. Do the Goodyear performance tires have nylon capped tires?! I don't know, but I myself are now 700 miles into the use of my new Maxxis load range "D" tires and so far am very pleased with them and will continue to report the good, the bad and any ugly that may come up in the course of there service life on my trailer.

[letsgo]

I believe that the owner /operator should be constantly vigilant, with reguard to monitoring trailer tires, check tire pressure before starting trip, you run your hand over the the tire tread blocks to feel for rubber feathering at the edge of the blocks, you do a visual inspection of the tire tread blocks, look at tread depth noting the wear index tire indicators, kick the tire or wack it with a hammer and listen for the same sound at all wheels,

THEN EVERY TIME YOU STOP you doooo all of the above and FEEL the rim and the tire observe the temperature of every wheel ( they should be the same).
none of the above will protect you, if you have low tire pressure leading to a flat tire which will blow with in 20 to 50 mile, been there experienced that,

I will add that I have 3 new axles aligned to perfection by the factory , 6 new shocks, 6 new marathons all balanced, after 500 miles the tire tread blocks are perfect. my last set of 6 marathons lasted 7 years had 1 tread separation and one blowout which was my fault, didnt observe the above list

Sooooo we will see, the trailer averages 8 to 10,000 miles a year.

good luck , drive safe

[flitzwhopper]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

I've seen Michelins on those bus sized mohos, so I assumed they would have a trailer tire. I don't see the harm using E (10 ply) rated tires rather than D especially if you're traveling on nasty roads or that campground 2air was at.

I drove my 4Runner with Michelins more than 800 miles on a road (Dempster Hwy) in Yukon Terr. that was notorious for eating tires because of sharp shale in the road base. I had no problems. These were just 6 ply, C rated, original equipment tires, but they'll go over 50,000 miles (at 47,000 now) before they wear out. A Forum member reported numerous tire failures on that road about 5 or 6 years ago, but I don't known whether he had Marathons or what their rating was.

Gene

I run MIchelins on all my vehicles... haven't had to change out the twink's tires but I'll go to MIchelins when it is time. One warning. Michelins will continue to have good tread depth long after the caseing is too done. One of our minivans had MIchelins on it that were a little more than 40k old. The tread depth looked great. The front right disintegrated at 70 on an Arizona interstate. Nothing bad happened but I replaced all four right away. I took one home and cut it apart. The sidewall was floppy! The fabric was separated. As it turns out the design of the Michelins makes the sidewall work hard and ages before the tread goes away. Just thourght you'd like to know.

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie

Even though there are fewer Maxxis tires out there, the design of the nylon cap, having used them in performance tires on my cars, I could understand how this could help reduce the odds of tread separation. Tire companies also have known about nylon caps for decades too. Why does Goodyear not have a nylon cap on the Marathons? I don't know the answer to that, though I have some idea that it may have to do with cost and what the bean counters at Goodyear come up with as a cost to add the nylon vs. a lawsuit they could loose, but I'm simply speculating here.

From what I understand, nylon caps are very prevalent on European tires with American tire builders feeling that they aren't necessary. Maybe the open speed limits in some countries require better tires and the caps are a necessary component to deal with that issue.

Those of us who have sat in corporate America management have been through those internal meetings where the topic of cost cutting and the potential effects on the longevity of a product are presented. Unfortunately unless you have some hard data to present, concerns regarding the effects of cost cutting sometimes fail to carry any weight, until the real world demonstrates the true effect.

As I noted earlier, the availability of the E rated ST tire and the cap were the two things that pulled me to the Maxxis side. Bettering the original supplied equipment on our Airstreams is something many of us do. Much like those of you who have upgraded to the disk brakes.

Jack

[Gene]

Originally Posted by flitzwhopper

Michelins will continue to have good tread depth long after the caseing is too done. One of our minivans had MIchelins on it that were a little more than 40k old. The tread depth looked great. The front right disintegrated at 70 on an Arizona interstate. Nothing bad happened but I replaced all four right away. I took one home and cut it apart. The sidewall was floppy! The fabric was separated. As it turns out the design of the Michelins makes the sidewall work hard and ages before the tread goes away. Just thourght you'd like to know.

Interesting. I have found Michelins to have very good traction even when the tread is about ready for tire replacement. Radial tire traction is in part a function of the flexible sidewalls (when they lose traction though, they really lose it). How would we know when the sidewall is cooked? I can look at tread, but the sidewall can look fine. It sounds like you have Michelins on your Airstream—which ones?

Thanks for your input.

Gene

[Blu_Hwy_Lady]

Jack: you make a good point
"Those of us who have sat in corporate America management have been through those internal meetings where the topic of cost cutting and the potential effects on the longevity of a product are presented. Unfortunately unless you have some hard data to present, concerns regarding the effects of cost cutting sometimes fail to carry any weight, until the real world demonstrates the true effect."

Large companies will continue business as usual until forced--usually by a flurry of bad PR or a nasty lawsuit--to do things differently. For all those 'blame the victim' arguments about the Marathons-- bad balance, improper inflation, blah, blah, blah....

Imagine making a routine stop to change drivers, opening the door to your beloved Airstream and finding it so filling with choking, stinking smoke you can't even see in. That's what happened when we blew the first Marathon. Since then we have been fanatical about inspecting the tires. When we travel we check the tires for over heating or an signs of problems about every 70 miles (the capacity of my bladder). Before we left for our trip to the FCU rally (mid-February) we actually took the trailer to the tire store and had them properly inflate and inspect all the tires since the last time we had the trailer on the road was 2 month previous (mid-December). {Relationship disclosure: I didn't want to take the trailer to the tire store and have them check everything because I didn't want to waste any more time and I was irritated that it took about 15-20 minutes to do it...but Bill thought it would be a good idea} We had traveled no more than 50 miles since having the tires professionally inspected and properly inflated when the Marathon blew. Because the Airstream tows so well we didn't know it had blown until Bill noticed a long piece of trim flapping in the wind. As I said in a previous post, it looked like it deteriorated from the inside out because the carcass was filled with this black powder.

I saved my dead Marathon this time because, if somebody puts together a class action suit, I want to have evidence. Sadly, it probably will take a couple of fatal crashes before anything changes.

[flitzwhopper]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

Interesting. I have found Michelins to have very good traction even when the tread is about ready for tire replacement. Radial tire traction is in part a function of the flexible sidewalls (when they lose traction though, they really lose it). How would we know when the sidewall is cooked? I can look at tread, but the sidewall can look fine. It sounds like you have Michelins on your Airstream—which ones?

Thanks for your input.

Gene

exactly... the Michelins are engineered to use sidewall flexation to compensate for changes in camber and skid angle to maintain good traction. Pirelli's and Yokohama's don't. Pirelli's and Yokohama's have tread go away before the tire's carcass wears out because their sidewalls are less flexible. The only way I can tell if the Michelins are worn out is to see how wiggly (scientific term) the side walls are or just replace them at regular intervals. I've decided that three years or 40k miles is the limit. Remember that the high operating temperatures generated here in Arizona tend to accelerate deterioration of the tire carcass.
i have Michelins on the truck and two mini vans. I raced with both Michelins and Pirellis. Totally different in feel and behavior.
I'll be changing the tires on the twink at the end of this travel season.

[Sky]

Y’all see the national news tonight? A lot of old tires are being sold as new. Tires setting on the self for 10+ years are being sold for new. Better check the DOT code next time you buy a tire. Wonder what the DOT codes were for the failed Marathons? Not sure how to decode the DOT, but it contains the manufactured date.

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by Sky

Y’all see the national news tonight? A lot of old tires are being sold as new. Tires setting on the self for 10+ years are being sold for new. Better check the DOT code next time you buy a tire. Wonder what the DOT codes were for the failed Marathons? Not sure how to decode the DOT, but it contains the manufactured date.

I've looked enough at new trailers to see that the tires are usually pretty fresh. Normally no more than 3-6 months old. I'm pretty sure mine were 3 months old. when the trailer was built.

Now replacements are an entire different issue. Buyer beware on that end.

Jack

[Area63]

Originally Posted by jcanavera

I've looked enough at new trailers to see that the tires are usually pretty fresh. Normally no more than 3-6 months old. I'm pretty sure mine were 3 months old. when the trailer was built.

Now replacements are an entire different issue. Buyer beware on that end.

Jack

I wonder if someone can decipher the date codes on these brand new tires. These look distinctly diffeent from my other Marathons. I own 13 of them. 4 on my Overlander, 2 brand new ones on my Flying Cloud, 4 on my rescue rims, and 3 on my 63 Globetrotter.