Goodyear Marathon Failures

[SilverCottage]

Here is the Good Sam survey:
http://blog.goodsamclub.com/wp-conte...ireSurvey4.pdf

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

Zig', good link, though the link in the link for the complete survey does not seem to exist any longer. I would have liked to have seen more detailed results.
Gene

[Gene]

Originally Posted by SilverCottage

Here is the Good Sam survey:
http://blog.goodsamclub.com/wp-conte...ireSurvey4.pdf

Thanks, that link works.

While it's easy to criticize the survey just like any survey, it's more information than anecdotal accounts.

Gene

[2airishuman]

the earlier posts make no mention of WHO conducted any survey/s...

simply that a summary was published in the costco club members "connections" mag.

do doubt someone in their marketing department surfed, found and summarized.

is it easy to criticize?

sure, about as easy as posting bad info or intentionally misleading info in a tire thread.

the survey is simply a COLLECTION of anecdotes.

it's a survey, nothing more.

and it's NOT about the tires, that is a important distinction to understand.

like most of these surveys

it's a collection of data about people and their thoughts and behaviours.

as it RELATES to round rubber black things.

as an example most of the people rate their "knowledge" about tires as 7 or above...

yet they don't use the tire DATE code for age, think the inflation tables are recommendations...

and so on.

again it's about the people (who RESPONDED) and their behaviors and perceptions.
_________

basically it quantifies the random anecdotal reports (like those here) in a group of tables.

and there is no need to criticize it UNLESS the clueless readers try to make something from it...

that doesn't exist.

OR vendors use it to promote the need 4 their products or services.

cheers
2air'

[Zigidachs]

I agree with 2air.

A truly valid study is proactively proposed with defined parameters established BEFORE the study is launched, and there must be "control" comparisons to establish statistical significance--not an anecdotal survey of experiences and observations.

His observations and comments are spot on. Because of so many individual variables we will probably never resolve the issue of "those round rubber black donuts".

Prudent initial travel and daily monitoring with tire rotations and inspections are most likely the best answers. Timely replacement of out-dated tires is also paramount.

BUT, having said all this, peace of mind is also very critical. We can alter our perspectives with information, but can we really change what we "believe"?

[2airishuman]

once confidence is lost it is tough to restore.

and buying into "new" piece of mind is often the choice/alternative.

3-4 years ago when the gym bashing was at FULL bore,

folks mentioned how much better maxxis or LT or greenball or almost anything else was...

at the time it was clear that millions upon millions of gyms and some failures...

could NOT be compared to a few 100 or 1000s of tires from other makers.

the forum was also buried in folks bashing ANYTHING made in china,

even though most of the gym tires with issues came from ONE plant in canada, which was being mothballed,

or were ancient tires with 3 digit date codes.
________

switching to anything else to GAIN piece of mind is as valid a reason to switch as most other reasons...

but then when THAT new security is lost, it gets harder to find another 'safer' strategy.
________

whenever the axle, shock, build quality, wheel balance, tire, lp gas on/off, fridge level, 'soft ride' threads run...

i often recall the h.l. menchen quote that goes something like this...

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple...

and wrong.

cheers
2air'

[steelbird312]

I have 3 trailers, a slide in truck camper, and a 390xl motorhome. I have had my share of tire issues, however, in the years/miles I have used RV's, I have found that tire issues have decreased conversly to the amount of attention I spend maintaining my tires. I have done this for 3 reasons: safety of me and those I care for, protection of my equipment (trailers, truck, mh,etc), and to stop the un-necessary reduction of my checking account!
Through the continued attempts to educate myself during this duration of time, I have discovered that for me several issues are important.
a) weighing my units is absolutely necessary to find out what tire capabilities are required ie. size, weight ratings,etc
b) knowing the weight ratings of my trailers, mh's and trucks
c)utilize the above knowledge along with weight tables to KNOW what tire pressures are required for each unit
d)with the resulting knowledge, make sure every morning, prior to sun heating of the tires, check and adjust the tire pressures to the proper setting; and make sure I do not overload the unit or the tires!
e) Protect the tires from UV rays! When stored, I use covers. When traveling, I use a GOOD UV protectant such as 303 on the sidewalls.
f) I used the knowledge gained from a and b to buy the proper tires when a purchase was needed. My tire purchase now is guided by the standard of 5-6 years for trailer tires, and 7-9 years for the motorhomes. Truck tires normally when wornout. The trailer and MH tires very rarly have the tread worn out. The time sequence is suggested by many tire manufacturers. They say, tire emolients do not migrate through the tires as much as desirable due to the fact most RV's are not used as frequently as our autos& pickup trucks. If they are, then the manufacturers say change sequence times can be increased.
g) when making my tire purchases, I insist on tires whose birthdates are very recent- refusing them if the tires are more than 3-4 months old. I also insist on new valve stems every time.
Not saying this would help anyone other than me, however, I do use all these units, and I have not had a tire failure in the last 6 years. Not saying it won't happen again, however, it sure has been nice as the problems reduced in frequency, and, as you can see, most if not all were actually free!
safe travels all,

[BigPlay]

All this is informative but a mute point once you have a bad roadside experiance . I had a 28ft dico trailer for 7 years and never changed a tire and it sat around in storage much more then my coach does and I had it fully loaded with construction equipment for the duration I owned it. I really dont remember ever checking the tire pressure either. Somebody explain that without mentioning luck. The fact is everything and I mean everything is being built cheaper and corners are cut more then ever even the newer Airstreams seem to be built cheaper then they once were but the price never seems to go down or even stay the same. Take the form fill issue that seems to be a hot topic, how much extra would it have cost AS to avoid this issue? My quess is not much. I believe and it's my opinion that AS is living off of their past reputation much like Goodyear.

No amount of defense of Goodyear will change my mind. I will try every other tire manufacture before I even think about going back to Goodyear. The crux of the issue for me is that I expect expensive things to perform up to their expectation and if 3 years is all science can get out of a tire then they need go back to the drawing board.

I decide to purchase an AS because I understood that they were the top of the industry. Their price leads one to think it must be true. I spend way more time then I expected to maintaining and tinkering with it to keep it ready for the occational trip. When I think about just how much it costs me per day to stay in my AS as compared to a 5 star hotel makes me wince a bit . I have used my coach 30+ days per year since I bought it which I feel for a guy who isnt retired yet a fair amount of time. This tire ordeal isn't AS's fault but it's just a part that takes away the joy of owning an AS. It's one of the weak links in the chain that has me seriously thinking about riding my life of one more thing that just doesn't measure up to the hipe.

[Grand Master]

Originally Posted by steelbird312

I also insist on new valve stems every time.
,

When I bought my new Towmasters and HiSpec aluminum wheels they installed stubby rubber valve stems rather than the metal valve stems. Their reason was that the metal valve stems can cause damage to the finish of the wheels.

I have always worried about the durability and safety of these rubber valve stems at 60 psi.

Who is right? Metal, rubber, or does it matter at this pressure?

[Phoenix]

When I bought our last tires from Discount Tire, I asked them to install "high pressure" valve stems, since we would run 80 psi. They told me that the rubber valve stems they install on truck and trailer wheels are rated for that pressure, even though they look very similar to the ones used for passenger car tires. The Maxxis tires we bought in 2008 were run at 80 psi for the past 2.5 years, and the valve stems worked fine for this period.

Perhaps the Discount Tire representative on this site could comment...

[azflycaster]

They told me that also when I noticed that they had replaced my metal ones with the "high performance" rubber ones. Two valve failures in the first 6 months convinced them to replace the stems with metal ones. I have had no failures with the steel ones in the past 18 months.

[2airishuman]

the v s discussion has happened in several threads with relevant info...

there CAN be issues with 'externally metal' stems...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...ems-37301.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...ack-62894.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...ems-36211.html

and there are 'internally metal' stems with rubber coatings.

pressures vary by CORE specs generally.

so there are low pressure full metal and high pressure externally rubber versions...

the MAIN issue is if one is using an external stem mounted tpms,

the stems need to LOCK/bolt (securely) on to the rim holes...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...ems-44323.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f465...ambi-7441.html

there can also be issues related to hub caps or improperly seated stems...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...ems-70522.html

cheers
2air'

[Wingeezer]

Originally Posted by azflycaster

They told me that also when I noticed that they had replaced my metal ones with the "high performance" rubber ones. Two valve failures in the first 6 months convinced them to replace the stems with metal ones. I have had no failures with the steel ones in the past 18 months.

I think also if you have a TPMS and if it is the type that comes with sensors that screw on like valve caps, they recommend metal stems. In fact the TPMS I bought came with a set of metal stems.

Good thing this subject reminded me though, because I'm hoping to get new tires in Tucson next month at Discount tire, so I;d better make sure they replace the existing metal stems with new metal stems!


Bian

[Phoenix]

If readers ever make it through this entire thread and haven't heard enough about Goodyear Marathon Failures, check out www.iRV2.com. There are even more posts regarding this problem on "5ers", as they call them (i.e., fifth wheel trailers). Plus, many have suffered similar costly damage to their RVs; and they don't even consider regular LT tires, but instead go to straight to all-steel Michelin XPS Ribs or BFGoodrich Commercial T/As.

[slowmover]

and they don't even consider regular LT tires, but instead go to straight to all-steel Michelin XPS Ribs or BFGoodrich Commercial T/As.

Which are E & F rated tires, none of which are suitable to an Airstream or vintage kin trailer . . unfortunate since the XPS has a bulletproof reputation as does the GY 614 among commercial haulers.

Many of those 5'ers are down-market in construction. It is also a "verity" (consensus of some repute) that SOB manufacturers of these overweight contraptions install axles and tires barely rated for the GVWR. Or, not, as I have read a few times.

.

[Bob Thompson]

I've used the B F Goodrich Commercial T/A's on my 25' Excella in both D-rated and E-rated varieties, always at 50 psi, and can't tell any difference in ride quality. The "D"'s, I put 65,000 miles on, the "E"'s are now up to 15,000 miles and doing great.

[Alan3940]

I ended up replacing my two failed Marathons with... More Marathons. My local Goodyear dealer covered them under warranty, pro rated based on wear. In my case that was 50%. $77 each mounted and balanced.

I requested recently manufactured, made in the USA. I received one made in the USA and one made in China, both 2010. Looks like I'll be conducting my own side-by-side comparison. The hard part was deciding which side of my Airstream would look better with a hole in it.

Goodyear dealer did pass on a few bits of information: Goodyear will warranty (pro rata) Marathons between 0-4 years from the date of manufacture with out documentation- as was my case because my tires were OEM. 5-6 years with documentation.

I expected the usual warranty hassle- blame the customer... Nope, just replaced them.

[Phoenix]

When our original Marathons failed in 2008, the Goodyear Tire Store in Cortez said that he couldn't make an adjustment on them and suggested that I take the tires back to the Airstream dealer to see if they could do anything. The tire that blew out completely disintegrated, and all that was left was the bead and a little bit of the sidewalls. The rest of the tire was back in northern Arizona scattered in pieces along the highway. In any case, if the alternative had been to put two new Marathons on, I wouldn't have taken them. Once was enough.

I have since switched to 16-inch wheels and Michelin XPS Ribs (225/75x16), and they fit in the wheel wells fine. Both tires had to be deflated to get them over the hub, but that was no different from the OEM 15-inch wheels and tires.

If interested, see details and photos on this link:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f465...tml#post944334

I am just glad to get this problem behind us, so we can get back on the road with no worries about blowouts.

[Phoenix]

If you make it to the end of this long thread, see the poll below for more information on tire failures.

Also, it would be helpful if those of you who contributed to this thread would add your details to this poll.

Thanks...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...oll-76867.html