Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-08-2008, 05:04 PM   #463
Rivet Master
 
Whizzo's Avatar
 
2014 23' FB Flying Cloud
San Antonio , Texas
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 685
Images: 18
ST's Feel Funny?

This thread certainly gives a new A/S-er some reason for healthy caution. I was pretty cautious in watching and inspecting every stop during the first 1800 mile round trip, @ 60 mph and 65 psi. The SOB was a double axle with the same Marathons, though C range. With but one axle, my watchfulness went up a bit.

I'm curious if the ST-type tires have a different construction than radials, that you can feel by touch. The sidewalls on mine are not uniformly smooth, but seem to have distinct segments underneath the rubber. Might I be detecting an internal construction difference, or something else?
__________________

__________________
2014 Flying Cloud 23FB
2015 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel
Whizzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2008, 11:49 PM   #464
Rivet Master
 
bhayden's Avatar
 
1978 24' Argosy 24
Woodinville , Washington
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 661
Images: 10
The ST tires can be either bias ply or radial construction. The Marathons are radials. Most if not all the ST tires use larger diameter cords in their construction that allow the higher pressure rating required for the increased load capacity. It's easier/cheaper to increase the size of the cord than increase the number of layers/plys in the construction.
__________________

__________________
bhayden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 01:15 AM   #465
Rivet Master
 
ROBERTSUNRUS's Avatar

 
2005 25' Safari
Salem , Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,266
Images: 18
Blog Entries: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whizzo View Post

I'm curious if the ST-type tires have a different construction than radials, that you can feel by touch. The sidewalls on mine are not uniformly smooth, but seem to have distinct segments underneath the rubber. Might I be detecting an internal construction difference, or something else?

Hi, I wondering the same thing; I noticed several side wall joints on my Marathons and thought that this was unusual. I expect to see one or two, but my Mararthons had several. I talked to three Goodyear dealers and was told by two of them that if they have more than three segments on the sidewall that they were defective. Manager said "bring them in and I'll take care of them for you." I took two wheels off and brought them to Goodyear and at that time the manager was side stepping and told me his superviser [over the phone] said ST tires have more segments and that was normal. They also said that, what looks like the start of a bubble on the side wall was caused by me running over something. In other words "I lied, to get you down here so I could make a sale out of denying a warranty claim." Here are two pictures of my tires with arrows marking the sidewall segments and a circle marking what looks like a bubble starting. Click on picture to enlarge.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	PICT0035 (Large).JPG
Views:	120
Size:	111.8 KB
ID:	65351   Click image for larger version

Name:	PICT0036 (Large).JPG
Views:	145
Size:	107.3 KB
ID:	65352  

__________________
Bob

2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent"
[ Small Silver Castle ]
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
ROBERTSUNRUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 09:08 AM   #466
Rivet Master
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,840
Depressing depressions

The sidewalls on mine are wavy in places. That may be the segmentation Bob describes. I asked about it on the walk through last year and everyone at the dealership told me no one had ever asked that before. I think I had been reading about Marathons earlier in the history of this thread. At that time, there were posts about a possible "secret recall" of Marathons, though that conjecture has since disappeared.

We walked around the lot and were looking at tires on motorhomes—some of them had Michelins on them and those tires had the same wavy spots. I asked them to check with Airstream about my tires and they later told me they called Airstream and were told the tires were normal.

Normal? Maybe it's my ignorance, but I don't understand how something that's supposed to be even all the way around appears to be thinner in some parts. I've never seen that in a car or truck tire. A bubble is the opposite. I haven't seen a bubble in many years and I think I only saw them in defective bias ply truck tires. I don't recall a depression in the sidewall before the bubble appeared. What I see in the Marathons is not a bubble, but a depression several inches wide (maybe 3") and running from the wheel towards but not quite reaching the tread. I've tried to ignore it.

I don't recall how many each tire has and it's early and I'm hungry and it rained last night (yes, it rained in the high desert! Hooray!), so I'm not going to go count them, or look on the inside while being attacked by scores of grasshoppers. That's the funny thing about the high desert—hardly any rain for most of June and July, then the monsoon in August. No sand here. The ground is hard as a rock or the worst clay mud and grasshoppers too. And the Dish network guy never showed up yesterday. But I digress…

So, Bob, am I describing what you call "side wall joints" or segments? Do others have the same thing?

Gene
__________________
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 10:14 AM   #467
Rivet Master
 
Whizzo's Avatar
 
2014 23' FB Flying Cloud
San Antonio , Texas
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 685
Images: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post
... am I describing what you call "side wall joints" or segments? Do others have the same thing?
Gene - what you are describing is exactly what I noted, and Bob described in greater detail. Based on bhayden's reply, maybe this is just the extra material making itself known within the sidewall.

Still, it is unlike any passenger type radial I've seen before. But I don't go around inspecting sidewalls much!

John W
__________________
2014 Flying Cloud 23FB
2015 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel
Whizzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 10:48 AM   #468
Rivet Master
 
richinny's Avatar
 
2011 34' Classic
Westchester Cty.NY , / Miami FL
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,122
about 6 years ago, i had cooper P series tires on my pickup. i noticed the sidewall "seams" when i was switching over to snow tires to plow. the shop called the dealer and the gave me a pro-rated credit on what was left on the tires. where this falls into our concerns, i have no idea.
__________________
Ricky
2012 F150 Super Crew 5-1/2' bed Ecoboost 4x4 3.73 elec. lock diff. Propride hitch
give life. kidney & pancreas transplant 9/9/06
Ingrid-my unofficial '"World's Oldest Streamer" 1909-2008 R.I.P.
richinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 04:31 PM   #469
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS View Post
Here are two pictures of my tires with arrows marking the sidewall segments and a circle marking what looks like a bubble starting...
hi bob, good pix!

the depressions are said to be belt overlaps.

not seen when deflated, they become obvious as the tire is inflated.

the overlapped areas don't distend uniformly with the rest of the side wall...

often, not always there are matching depressions on the inner/outer side walls.

no one with rubber knowledge has suggested 2 me that the overlapped depressions are a weak spot or a cause for concern.

i've found these depressions occasionally on LT tires inflated to 70+ psi....

since passenger car tires seldom see more than 40 psi the sidewalls don't get stressed by air to the same degree.

the RAISED area is a different issue and is reason enough for a replacement tire.

it isn't a classic 'bubble' but is considered a weak spot/potential area for failure and bubbles do form in these areas occasionally.

this is explained at the tirerack site and in other threads here.

your photos are very similar to the one i posted for the tires gy replaced under warranty.

the shop wanted to argue that i'd hit something and damaged the tires, but they were totally unused having been spares only.

cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 04:45 PM   #470
Rivet Master
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,840
Is depression related to separation anxiety?

Somehow 2air's post caused me to figure out (and I may be the last person to do so) that the depressions should be stronger than the rest of the tire. One way to look at it would be the weak spots are the rest of the tire and the strong spots are the depressions—they don't expand as much under pressure.

Next question: does the fact the tire sidewalls have different widths cause tread to separate? Is there more strain on certain parts of the tread because of that? I wonder where separation starts and if there's a pattern there?

Gene
__________________
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 05:11 PM   #471
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
gene...

from one untrained tire user to another...

while the overlaps don't distend to the same degree that doesn't equal more strength...

the overlaps are often at the ENDs and might be weaker areas without overlap.

one way to hide them would be to increase the surface rubber thickness, BUT this would cause the tire to run hotter.

the goals of the carcass is to remain intact under load and stress and heat AND offer good ride quality...

to serve as a foundation for, and to remain properly attached to the tread block.

so for example IF the belts (which have larger diameter cords) were FULLY doubled again...

the tire might be way to STIFF...

overlapped areas or FULL caps also retain more HEAT, which may/maynot be a negative issue.

the goal of a cap or extra/thicker belt (as on the gyms) is to reduce belt squirm AND lifting under high speed centrifugal forces.

lastly TREAD loss/separation isn't the same as BELT separation.

CUTS cause many tread segment losses while belt separtaions are LARGELY do to...

UNDERinflation (for load or speed) and the resultant heat generated from the added flex and movement...

now awaiting the correction of these lies i offer...

cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 07:04 PM   #472
Rivet Master
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,840
More separation anxiety

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post
gene...

now awaiting the correction of these lies i offer...

cheers
2air'
And I'm sure it will come, 2 air.

If I remember correctly, the idea of a radial is the flexible sidewall allows better traction on curves because the sidewall doesn't pull at the tread and make it slide. The disadvantage is you don't skid gradually, but all at once. If I have translated what you have written into my version of English, there are extra belts in the sidewall in an ST tire which would reduce I would think the traction??? Are the people in this thread reporting tread or sidewall separation? I never thought about that before. And why wouldn't an overlap, if properly bonded, be the strongest part? Is that where belts separate, or do they separate from the next belt?

I never thought buying an Airstream would be require being a tire mavin, a status of expertise I think I will never attain.

Gene
__________________
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 11:25 PM   #473
Rivet Master
 
ROBERTSUNRUS's Avatar

 
2005 25' Safari
Salem , Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,266
Images: 18
Blog Entries: 51
No Expectations

Hi, I just sent all my information and story to Goodyear through their "Contact us" on their site. I also noticed that the warranty on Marathons are six years from date of manufacture or from date of proof of purchase. I was told by the dealers that the Marathon warranty was four years. Not that I really expect them to honor their warranty. I was planning to replace them at the six year mark anyway. Waiting patiently for their responce ........ .......Bob
__________________
Bob

2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent"
[ Small Silver Castle ]
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
ROBERTSUNRUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2008, 12:05 AM   #474
Rivet Master
 
1987 29' Sovereign
Sparta , Tennessee
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 507
Send a message via Yahoo to wingfoot321
CrawfordGene,

You are on the money. The indentations you see are actually the area in the ply material where the splice is made of the beginning and trailing end of each ply. This area is an overlap of approx 1/4 inch and is therefore stronger and resists extension under pressure. There are two plies so there will normally be two splices and they should be staggered somewhat apart. However, if the ply stock being wrapped around the tire happens to have a short piece of material spliced in before it gets to the tire, then you can end up with a "preparation splice" that makes an additional splice. This additional splice shouldn't happen very often but, it is normal.
__________________
wingfoot321 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2008, 12:39 AM   #475
Rivet Master
 
1987 29' Sovereign
Sparta , Tennessee
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 507
Send a message via Yahoo to wingfoot321
CrawfordGene,

Missed the second part of your post.

To the best of my knowledge, all manufacturers use two plies of fabric in trailer tires of equal width but, probably offset approx 1/2 inch so there is not a big stepoff at the ply ending. This should have nothing to do with the belt package.

The belt package is generally two belts with one wider than the other by a small amount on each side so you don't get a big stepoff at the belt ending. They are at opposite angles such as 25degrees right angle and 25 degrees left angle.

The failure modes can be many; tread separation at the splice or a loss of adhesion to the top belt anywhere around the tire, belt edge separation, or belt separation anywhere between the two belts or the bottom belt to the ply. I have never seen a cut maxxis tire but, understand that it is suppose to have a full width fabric belt over the wire belts to increase the strength and overall adhesion & tightness of the tire. I know that Goodyear a few years back added what are called belt edge reinforcements to their design. These strips are about 1 inch wide and are nylon and run circumferentially around the tire and cover the endings of
the belts. I think these strips were an attempt to reduce separations at the point where the horizontal plane of the belts becomes the vertical plane of the sidewall.
I understand this is a const technique used on high performance tires.

Just my $.02 from a user. I was not a tire engineer.
__________________
wingfoot321 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2008, 12:55 AM   #476
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by wingfoot321 View Post
...Just my $.02 from a user. I was not a tire engineer.
good answer wingfoot! tire engineer or not...

hey gene, that's exactly how i would have answered!

while the max have a full cap,

the current gyms have a reinforced edge on the nylon wraps intended for the same goal.

robertsunrus...

the replacement policy also is based on prorating for tread wear...

good luck and keep after'em.

cheers
2air'
__________________

__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Goodyear G670 RV Tires??? TRAPEZE Airstream Motorhome Forums 16 11-27-2006 04:19 PM
Goodyear Marathon "C" out of production Wabbiteer Tires 13 07-18-2006 05:24 PM
Goodyear Marathon Source Jabba Tires 28 02-22-2004 12:16 PM
Goodyear G670 RV Tires??? TRAPEZE Tires 2 07-08-2002 06:38 PM
Goodyear tires available at Camping World 83Excella Tires 0 05-09-2002 09:29 AM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.