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Old 05-18-2008, 12:49 AM   #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
how much rubber is enough?

LT tires and 'over rated' tires may cause issues too...
But if you follow the inflation tables you're not 'over rated'. To be honest I can't tell the difference between 28psi (low) and 38psi (high) in a car. The diffence in 3/4" wide bicycle tires however is a different story. Many new clincher style tires are rated as high as 140psi and a lot of people mistakenly believe that running them at max pressure will result in minimizing rolling resistance. In fact the opposite is true. A rock hard tire will not only be uncomfortable it has higher rolling resistance and less grip. Michelin is one of the few companies that provides inflation tables based on rider weight. Tests with wattage meters (sort of a dynamonitor on the bike) prove that rolling resistance of a well constructed tire is almost constant over a wide range of pressure. The key is matching the presure to the road surface. Compliance, and therefore ride quality is determined by pressure. Conversly a poorly constructed tire has a higher rolling resistance no matter what the pressure.

All radial tires have more flex in the sidewall than the old bias ply. Sidewall construction is secondary to inflation but it's hard for me to believe that ST tires with their larger diameter cord used in the casing are going to have a more compliant ride than a tire designed for "creature comfort" as in a light truck or SUV.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
going to bias ply or e rating or LT tires WILL stiffen the ride.
Odd, back when radials first came out they had the reputation of a harsh ride. Marketing guru's in Detroit came up with the slogan, "radially tuned suspension" to sell the US public on the virtues of radial tires. The rest, as they say, is history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
while i agree jacks 30slide is a beast, the WHEELS are only rated to 2200lbs each and adding tire capacity doesn't change that.
But, the point is, according to the inflation tables they can be run at a lower pressure which I believe more than offsets an additional stiffness (if any) of the tires construction.

-Bernie
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Old 05-18-2008, 07:24 AM   #338
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Hi all,

In another thread we described our Goodyear Marathon separations (4 out of 5 tires that came with our 2005 30' Safari bunkhouse). We decided to move to 16" rims with Michelin XPS Rib LT225/75/R16 LRE tires. The tires are E rated with a load capacity of 2335 lbs. at 65 psi. Michelin recommends these tires for RV use (you can see the site here: Michelin Americas Truck Tires XPS RIBŪ Page

We have had them on our trailer since last July with approximately 5000 miles use and are very happy with them. We have experienced no issues with things shaking loose in the trailer or rivets popping as some have worried about given the expected rougher ride.

We are both scientists by training, and one of the great scientific principles is Occam's Razor: that all else being equal, this simplest explanation is usually the correct one. It seems to us that all of the separation failures described can be most simply explained by lousy tires - to postulate that every person who has a Marathon fail has misaligned axles or unbalanced running gear etc. is ludicrous.

It all comes down to money. Remember the Ford Explorer/ Firestone tire separation debacle? Of course Goodyear wants to make tires as economically as possible. Airstream also wants to keep their costs down, and their relationship with Goodyear satisfies this criterion. However, this may not be the best path to follow as a consumer.

Some people have had very good luck using Marathons on their trailer. We did not, and so adopted an alternative that we are very happy with. Our only purpose here is to make people aware of viable options.

Bye
Paul and Miriam
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Old 05-18-2008, 07:02 PM   #339
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Marathon Tires

Hello all:

Just read Paul's comments on his fix for faulty Goodyear tires. We experienced a failure of one tire on our 2004 30 ft. Classic just before a trip last summer. There was a huge separation on the inside sidewall and only 40 lbs. of air in the tire. Fortunately the tire was still under tread warranty so it was exchanged for a new tire now made in China. While at the Goodyear dealer there were three more Marathon tires returned for the same separation or thrown treads. We went on our trip and had another tire fail on the return trip home on I-5 a week later. The trailer started to sway quite a bit as we passed a truck at 60 MPH. The evening before we left for home this tire read 60 psi while the others read 65 psi., this is the first hint of problems with these tires. I inspected the remaining two road tires, one on each side, and found number three failure starting. You can see little or no area between the spaces on the tread especially on the edges, it looks like there is none. And looking straight across the tread one side is higher than the other a sure sign there is a separation. I believe there was about 6,000 miles on these tires.

When we returned home we were looking for replacement tires but found nothing but Chinese made tires. All the bad stuff about Chinese products was on the news, poison dog food, tire recalls, lead in children's toys etc. I did not want to experiment with Chinese tires. We saw Paul's article and I called him. He gave me all the current information on his experience and we went ahead with the same rims and Michelin XPS rib tires. Total cost $1,700 for five new rims and tires. We have made only one trip since we installed the new tires as we had pet problems at home and could not stay away too long. We experienced no problems with a rougher ride even on the miserable freeways in California. We both felt the trailer tracked the truck direction much better and seemed just to tow better than the Goodyear tires. We have kept the trailer up on stands all winter and I do rotate them about 1/2 turn every month. I have to add I have more confidence in tires 'Made in Germany' vs 'Made in China.'

Yes they were expensive, about double what all five new trailer tires would have cost but when you have this much invested in the trailer the security of knowing you will not have to worry about tire failure means a lot. Just like the Michelin tires on our tow vehicle, I don't worry about them either.

Some people have excellent service life with the Marathon tire and I believe there are circumstances that promote long tire life. I believe using the trailer much more than we did during the three years of ownership, wife was still working at the time. I also believe we need to jack stand our trailers if we don't use them for long periods, Goodyear's own manuals say to take the weight off trailers for long periods of non-use. And finally, many trailers weigh less than the newer trailers so less weight means less stress. We were just in an opportunity with two blown tires and a third failure waiting to happen it was an opportunity to make a clean break away from a product we felt had no track record on quality.

Paul Warenycia/KA6NFP
Roseville, CA
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Old 05-19-2008, 01:04 AM   #340
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popping rivets

Hi, I had a commercial truck with an [Grumman Olson] all aluminum riveted body on it. I drove this truck for eight years. At about seven years, I noticed a few rivets had popped, so I replaced them right away. My point being: rough roads, out of balance running gear, stiffer tires, body flexing, and too stiff of suspension on your tow vehicle, can and will, in some cases cause rivets to pop, but don't expect it to happen over night; Expect it to happen in a few years down the road. Also everytime a rivet pops it puts more strain on the next rivets in line, so replace them as soon as possible.
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Old 06-02-2008, 08:31 AM   #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RossFam05BH
Hi all,

In another thread we described our Goodyear Marathon separations (4 out of 5 tires that came with our 2005 30' Safari bunkhouse). We decided to move to 16" rims with Michelin XPS Rib LT225/75/R16 LRE tires. The tires are E rated with a load capacity of 2335 lbs. at 65 psi. Michelin recommends these tires for RV use (you can see the site here: Michelin Americas Truck Tires XPS RIBŪ Page

We are both scientists by training .....
Thanks for the link to the XPS site.

You obviously considered carefully the change to 16" tires and I am wondering how you evaluated the fact that the center of gravity of the AS is higher as a result?

Thanks,

SRW
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Old 06-02-2008, 08:05 PM   #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRW
You obviously considered carefully the change to 16" tires and I am wondering how you evaluated the fact that the center of gravity of the AS is higher as a result?

Thanks,

SRW
At worst, the center of gravity of the Airstream on the Michelin tires can be only 0.6" higher than it was on the Marathons (Michelin diameter = 29.4"; Marathon diameter [of non-separated tires!] = 28.25"). Given that the Michelin XPS Ribs are beefier and heavier tires, it's probably somewhat under that. We haven't precisely calculated it! Our greater concern, and reason for switching to the Michelins, was our worry about loss of stability/control, and possible damage to the trailer, that could result from the inevitable failure of the Marathons in our situation (4 out of 5 of our original Marathons separated within 3 years from when we purchased the trailer). We went the route of maximum safety, and haven't looked back.

Paul and Miriam
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Old 06-02-2008, 11:52 PM   #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRW
You obviously considered carefully the change to 16" tires and I am wondering how you evaluated the fact that the center of gravity of the AS is higher as a result?
If you have an older trailer (pre metric tire sizing) then the 16" tires put you back to the same ride height as the original 7.00x15 tires. That's because the aspect ratio of the new radials is so much lower than the originally spec'd tires. I for one can't afford to give up the ground clearance that occurs with a switch to metric "equivalent" tires.
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Old 06-03-2008, 05:23 AM   #344
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During the first 10K miles of ownership with our '04 Classic we experienced two blowouts on the road and replaced a third after a 'pre-flight' inspection revealed a sidewall bubble. Currently with just over 30K miles on our rig we've experienced no more tire failures with our GoodYears. I attribute this to a couple of things; keeping our speed no higher than 65mph and keeping the air pressure at around 64psi cold. The first 10K miles of ownership I would cruise at 70mph and above. My failures were during Summertime in the South. While these may not be the only contributing factors I feel they are major in our case. Additionally, I attempt to avoid; curb scrubbing, potholes, rough railroad crossings and turning at acute angles. To keep our tires in constant balance we've mounted Centramatic Balancers. To keep advised as to tire pressures and give advance warning should a tire be 'going down' we utilize 'pressure pros'. I do believe keeping new rubber i.e. under four years of age from date of manufacture, may also be a contributing factor, and plan to replace all of my tires by next Summer.
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Old 06-08-2008, 10:18 AM   #345
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Tire Pressure Monitor System

I just completed the install process of a Pressure Pro system to monitor the air pressure in each of the Airstream's tires.

I used my AccuGage to confirm that the air pressure in each tire was 65 psig and then screwed on a Pressure Pro sensor to a tire as directed by the instructions.

The monitor said the tire had 62 psig not 65.

Interesting.

I followed the same process for the remaining three tires

The AccuGage said 65 psig in each of the remaining three tires, and the Pressure Pro indicated two tires were at 62 psig and one was at 63 psig.

Interesting.

I spoke with Duane at the Pressure Pro distributor (it is Sunday morning) and he advised that the chances of all four sensors being faulty was very improbable and in his opinion the gage I was using was most likely not accurate.

He also walked me through the complete install process.

Quite frankly I thought that I had bought a reasonable quality gage and was surprised to discover that it read about 5% high.

I increased the air pressure in each tire to where each is now reading 65 psig on the Pressure Pro monitor and 68 +/- with the AccuGage.

I am off to Discount tire to confirm the pressure in the truck's tires versus the AccuGage reading.

SRW
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Old 06-08-2008, 10:44 AM   #346
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My Pressure-Pro sensors are very accurate

I hae a cheap digital gage and a fairly expensive brass analog gage. The two of them agree almost perfectly.

I set my tires at 70# (E-rated) and installed the Pressure Pro. All four sensors immediately read 70#. Occasionally, on a cool morning, I get maybe one 69# reading and the rest of them at 70#.

If I stop at a traffic light, I like to sequence through to see what the hot tire pressure is. I usually get 77 or 78# in ambient temperatures in the high 90s.

I really like the system except that it is hard to find a good place to mount it. Because of the projecting antenna, it does not work well on a visor or attached to the overhead console. The best place, so far, is vacuum-cupped to the wide woodgrain strip in front of the passenger seat.

I really feel a lot more secure with the monitor watching my tire pressures.
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Old 06-08-2008, 02:54 PM   #347
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John,

I like thumbing through the sensors like you. I found a neat way to mount the readout between the lighter sockets on my 2003 Tahoe. I've posted pictures in my photo gallery.
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Old 06-26-2008, 03:37 PM   #348
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My husband and I own a 2006 Bambi CCD (16 ft). We do not overload the trailer and infact make every effort to stay as light as possible. In May 2008, while driving I75 from Orlando to Marathon, Florida, we felt our trailer's driver side tire blow. Luckily we made it safely to the side of the road. God bless the road ranger who helped change the tire. We made it to Marathon safely and tried to locate a tire. None of the proper size were available and we elected to chance a drive back with no spare. We made it to within 1 mile of where the first blow out occurred when we had the second blow out. We then spent 6 hours in Miami waiting for new tires. I can guarantee that we did NOT replace the original Goodyear Marathons with new Marathons. We did experience some damage to the undercarriage of our trailer from the blow out but are in the process of repairing that. What a way to start and end a vacation! If you have Marathon's, we'd recommend replacing them BEFORE your next trip.
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Old 06-26-2008, 04:23 PM   #349
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For the first few trips when our Airstream was new, the tires only had about 48 LBS of air in them. I had my tire shop increase them to 60, but the tire shop I use wouldn't go higher than the rating on the side of the tires. Their portable tank they had to use to get out to the trailer didn't seem to accurate or too good at putting that much air pressure in so I bought the necessary attachments for the hose I have to a little pancake compressor I bought for my finish nailer and increased the air pressure in each tire to the maximum in the charts. I forget what I put in them this spring to be honest with you, but it was the amount that was recommended by Goodyear for speeds up to 75 MPH. I'm not advocating that speed, but if the tire is good for that it should be good for less than that. Anyway, I have had the trailer in storage since the spring near the destinations we had planned for this year so I wouldn't have to tow it so far every trip so I could save on fuel and wear and tear on me. Now I will be bringing the trailer home after next week's trip and will be adjusting the air pressure again. I will research my notes to confirm the pressure I will use.
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Old 06-26-2008, 05:21 PM   #350
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During a recent trip from Tucson to Miami, we had a Marathon and a no name D rated tire blow on our 2004 25 Safari at different times. It was hotter than hell. Pressure was at 65. I check every morning and empty the holding tanks. The Marathon that blew was two months old. The year before one of the original Marathons blew.
The Marathons are no better than the no name tires sold at flybynight tire stores at most interstate exits throughout the South.
We are now running load range E Maxxis inflated to 80 lbs. 2000 miles in hot weather and so far so good.
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